Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Al-Orthodoxia]

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

Explain the flights that decided to avoid Eastern Ukraine by detouring over Syria?

By your maths, the likelihood of being shot down over Syria is surely astronomical by now.

And it probably will be soon

[Costa Fierro]

Who gets the blame?

Well, if you know they have your gun, and have shot several of your people who have tried to take the gun, you have the duty to tell people "hey, there's a guy over there shooting pretty wildly, and we don't know if he'll be able to tell that you're not one of us."

And what if you didn't realize the gun was stolen? Or, what if you did know it was stolen, but didn't know where it was or who was using it? It's all well in saying the owner has some responsibility even if they didn't know who stole it or where it was taken to.

Implying that the Ukraine has some responsibility for actions that were not of its own doing is like saying the man who had his gun stolen has responsibility for the deaths of people that it was used to shoot.

[Registug]

In this case you can't even say that it was negligence that led to the SAM getting captured, because Ukraine is actively fighting these guys.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well, if you know they have your gun, and have shot several of your people who have tried to take the gun, you have the duty to tell people "hey, there's a guy over there shooting pretty wildly, and we don't know if he'll be able to tell that you're not one of us."

And what if you didn't realize the gun was stolen? Or, what if you did know it was stolen, but didn't know where it was or who was using it? It's all well in saying the owner has some responsibility even if they didn't know who stole it or where it was taken to.

Implying that the Ukraine has some responsibility for actions that were not of its own doing is like saying the man who had his gun stolen has responsibility for the deaths of people that it was used to shoot.

They knew that the rebels had acquired a Buk from their anti-aircraft base, and they had a general idea of where it was because:
1) It being controlled by the rebels limits where it could be to the areas where the insurgency is confined, and
2) The rebels had used it to shoot down Ukrainian transport planes well above the existing flight zone and in the area in the previous few days.

[United Marxist Nations]

In this case you can't even say that it was negligence that led to the SAM getting captured, because Ukraine is actively fighting these guys.

I didn't say it was negligence to let the rebels capture it, I said it was negligence to not tell airlines to avoid the area when it became clear the rebels had such a weapon.

[Imperializt Russia]

Tell me, if someone shoots someone else dead using your gun, who should get the blame?

In the US and certainly the UK, you are, for being such a massive tool that you didn't think to report your stolen firearm as such.
I take this position against Ukraine, in the belief that it may have been their Buk launcher, captured by rebel forces, used in the MH17 incident.

In this case you can't even say that it was negligence that led to the SAM getting captured, because Ukraine is actively fighting these guys.

Unless the Buk crew defected, as some sources additionally claim.

If your forces are willing to defect, there is arguably some negligence occurring somewhere to lead to this event.

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

If I ever go to Malaysia it will be by boat.

[Farnhamia]

Tell me, if someone shoots someone else dead using your gun, who should get the blame?

In the US and certainly the UK, you are, for being such a massive tool that you didn't think to report your stolen firearm as such.
I take this position against Ukraine, in the belief that it may have been their Buk launcher, captured by rebel forces, used in the MH17 incident.

In this case you can't even say that it was negligence that led to the SAM getting captured, because Ukraine is actively fighting these guys.

Unless the Buk crew defected, as some sources additionally claim.

If your forces are willing to defect, there is arguably some negligence occurring somewhere to lead to this event.

So Ukraine is to blame because armed rebels captured a Buk launcher and shot down a civilian airliner with it? "Oh, sorry, sorry, our bad, we should have reported the stolen rocket launcher but we were busy trying to stop a rebellion that threatens to detach the eastern half of our country. No excuse, we know, we should have picked up the phone and told someone. Won't happen again. Sorry."

[Esternial]

In the US and certainly the UK, you are, for being such a massive tool that you didn't think to report your stolen firearm as such.
I take this position against Ukraine, in the belief that it may have been their Buk launcher, captured by rebel forces, used in the MH17 incident.
Unless the Buk crew defected, as some sources additionally claim.

If your forces are willing to defect, there is arguably some negligence occurring somewhere to lead to this event.

So Ukraine is to blame because armed rebels captured a Buk launcher and shot down a civilian airliner with it? "Oh, sorry, sorry, our bad, we should have reported the stolen rocket launcher but we were busy trying to stop a rebellion that threatens to detach the eastern half of our country. No excuse, we know, we should have picked up the phone and told someone. Won't happen again. Sorry."

It's like dealing with Vogons.

[JesusOfNazareth]

It's like dealing with Vogons.

Yup. The poetry is unbearable.

[Imperializt Russia]

In the US and certainly the UK, you are, for being such a massive tool that you didn't think to report your stolen firearm as such.
I take this position against Ukraine, in the belief that it may have been their Buk launcher, captured by rebel forces, used in the MH17 incident.
Unless the Buk crew defected, as some sources additionally claim.

If your forces are willing to defect, there is arguably some negligence occurring somewhere to lead to this event.

So Ukraine is to blame because armed rebels captured a Buk launcher and shot down a civilian airliner with it? "Oh, sorry, sorry, our bad, we should have reported the stolen rocket launcher but we were busy trying to stop a rebellion that threatens to detach the eastern half of our country. No excuse, we know, we should have picked up the phone and told someone. Won't happen again. Sorry."

Ukraine lost, from their armouries, a strategic air defences weapon.
One highly and easily capable of engaging civil and Ukrainian military aviation, neither of which are particularly well (or at all) protected against this kind of high performance air defences weapon.

Ukraine has a lot of questions to answer about why they felt it prudent to not say anything about having lost a high performance, high-altitude strategic air defences weapon which put thousands of lives at risk, and took the lives of three hundred civilians.

And then lying/feeding misinformation/being apparently unable to communicate with their own military and government, by a Youtube account purported to be the official Ukrainian Military Police account's depicting a Buk launcher on a low loader going "over the Russian border" in an incident occurring at ~1:30am coincidentally being filmed in apparently broad daylight or dusk. It was also completely unclear, from the thirteen-second video (which the Russians claimed, from a billboard, was actually filmed deep inside Ukraine) whether or not the footage was shot in a Ukrainian/Russian border town, Donetsk or chuffing Baikonur. There were some trees, a Buk on a low loader and a billboard in Russian.

[Costa Fierro]

Interesting article that alleges that the real target was supposed to be an Aeroflot flight to Lanarca in Cyprus.

[Imperializt Russia]

Interesting article that alleges that the real target was supposed to be an Aeroflot flight to Lanarca in Cyprus.

Strictly speaking, it says that the Ukrainian government claims this.
So I'm just as happy to completely discard its legitimacy as I am Lavrov's claim that the Red Cross supports an incursion to support a Russian humanitarian mission in East Ukraine.

What Weiss claims to be doing is interpreting the rhetoric and usually outright fabrications that is Slavic news outlets in a time of proxy conflict.
Not exactly wise.

AFL/SU2074 certainly doesn't have a "similar" flight path to MH17 - it tracks almost straight south, since it's a flight that originates from north of Moscow. Before July 17, it would likely pass through East Ukraine - with seven other airlines.

[Etzopia]

I'm probably late here, but 25 Excellent Dutch experts on AIDS where on the plane.


They were going to a conference in Malaysia about AIDS.


The Fight against AIDS has been pushed back.

[Registug]

I'm probably late here, but 25 Excellent Dutch experts on AIDS where on the plane.


They were going to a conference in Malaysia about AIDS.


The Fight against AIDS has been pushed back.

They were going to a conference in Melbourne about AIDS.

[Australian rePublic]

viewtopic.php?p=19148276#p19148276
This post accidently predicted MH17. Spooky!!!

[Australian rePublic]

If I ever go to Malaysia it will be by boat.

Or bridge via Singapore. That's how I would go!!!

[The Risen Jaguar Warriors]

If I ever go to Malaysia it will be by boat.

Or bridge via Singapore. That's how I would go!!!

What about Trans-Pacific railway...? *nods*

[Moby Rio]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=19148276#p19148276
This post accidently predicted MH17. Spooky!!!

It really, really doesn't

[Australian rePublic]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=19148276#p19148276
This post accidently predicted MH17. Spooky!!!

It really, really doesn't

It actually does

[Bazrasha]

It really, really doesn't

It actually does

Clever jokes about current topics does not a prediction make.

[Rio Grande del Sur]

Explain the flights that decided to avoid Eastern Ukraine by detouring over Syria?

By your maths, the likelihood of being shot down over Syria is surely astronomical by now.

And it probably will be soon

Probability isn't your strong suit, is it?

[Altito Asmoro]

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

Explain the flights that decided to avoid Eastern Ukraine by detouring over Syria?

By your maths, the likelihood of being shot down over Syria is surely astronomical by now.

It's impossible.

[Australian rePublic]

It actually does

Clever jokes about current topics does not a prediction make.

ACCIDENTAL

[Imperializt Russia]

Explain the flights that decided to avoid Eastern Ukraine by detouring over Syria?

By your maths, the likelihood of being shot down over Syria is surely astronomical by now.

It's impossible.

Is it really.