Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Imperializt Russia]

Most people seem to think that it was pro Russian rebels from the Ukraine but, that it was not planned by Vladimir Putin because apparently they got body experts who read signs on the body, to read Putin and they thought he was absolutely pissed off beyond belief, but the main problem is that England and America don't want to offend them too much, otherwise the west will lose the majority of its oil.

America is a net exporter.

[Organized States]

Most people seem to think that it was pro Russian rebels from the Ukraine but, that it was not planned by Vladimir Putin because apparently they got body experts who read signs on the body, to read Putin and they thought he was absolutely pissed off beyond belief, but the main problem is that England and America don't want to offend them too much, otherwise the west will lose the majority of its oil.

1. It's the United Kingdom, not England
2. The West gets more oil from Canada and the Middle East...

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

? I am rather understanding of the rebels shooting down the plane. I certainly don't think they should be treated as criminals for it, unless it can be shown they shot the plane down on purpose. It is a war zone and shit like this is bound to happen in a war zone, civilians hit by artillery or bombs, houses destroyed etc. After all the US shot down a civilian plane once on accident and it never came to a criminal trial, though the US did pay $200,000 for each person on the plane.

The blame lies on international reporting agencies for not sending civilian planes somewhere else after it had become obvious someone was shooting down planes in the area.

Before that time, the only idea we had was that the rebels had weapons which could shoot up to 32,000 feet. Above that, considering that we had no idea of the rebels having Buk missiles, it was assumed to be safe.

Supposedly the rebels bragged about capturing a Buk a while ago.

[United Marxist Nations]

Before that time, the only idea we had was that the rebels had weapons which could shoot up to 32,000 feet. Above that, considering that we had no idea of the rebels having Buk missiles, it was assumed to be safe.

Supposedly the rebels bragged about capturing a Buk a while ago.

Way back on 28 June.

[Greater Beggnig]

Before that time, the only idea we had was that the rebels had weapons which could shoot up to 32,000 feet. Above that, considering that we had no idea of the rebels having Buk missiles, it was assumed to be safe.

Supposedly the rebels bragged about capturing a Buk a while ago.

Given the preposterous claims coming from both sides of this conflict, that could easily have been just a lie.
Even if it was true, I guess another assumption would have been made that they wouldn't be able to use it.

[Imperializt Russia]

Supposedly the rebels bragged about capturing a Buk a while ago.

Given the preposterous claims coming from both sides of this conflict, that could easily have been just a lie.
Even if it was true, I guess another assumption would have been made that they wouldn't be able to use it.

This is the former Soviet Union, a proxy rebel conflict between two states that practice conscription.

It's entirely likely that the actual operators of the missile system defected, and moreso that the rebels do have air-defences trained personnel amongst them.

[Allanea]

We know for certain that at least one of the rebels is a former AA officer [Fedor Berezin], so there can easily be more.

[Australian rePublic]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nA8r81zSw8E
Why isn't Malaysian Airlines held accountable for this. At the VERY LEAST they should compenste the woman who had a dead body fall through her roof and therefore smash hole through her roof. This lady was elderly and it appeared that she lived alone and had to repair the roof herself (see above video for report). They should AT LEAST compinsate her

Oh don't believe fucking 60 minutes.

Why would some poor old Ukrainian lady lie to the faces of foreign Australians when saying a body feel through here roof

there were FOUR (4) planes flying the SAME ROUTE as MH17 MINUTES ahead and MINUTES behind. It could have been any single one of those aircraft unlucky enough to get shot down.

Yea well they were lucky, weren't they

Malaysia Airlines can't be held responsible for being shot down. It's absurd. It's like driving your car down a road that's been perfectly safe the other thousand bloody times you've driven down it then one day someone shoots your car up. "Why were you driving down that road if someone could've shot your car up?" Because it's a perfectly safe fucking road and the guy only shot my car up because he's a dumb cunt who thought I was driving the car of his sworn enemy.

If I knew that the area was prone to shootings, I wouldn't care what 1000 other idiots were doing, I would steer clear of it

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh don't believe fucking 60 minutes.

Why would some poor old Ukrainian lady lie to the faces of foreign Australians when saying a body feel through here roof

Because she's sick of the war. Because she wants to see if it really is easy to win money through a fabricated lawsuit. Fifteen minutes of fame.
Pick one or ten thousand others.

[United Marxist Nations]

MA has no responsibility for damages. One could argue that Ukraine does for not extending the no fly zone to those altitudes when it became known the rebels possessed such weapons.

[New Chalcedon]

Malaysia Airlines can't be held responsible for being shot down. It's absurd. It's like driving your car down a road that's been perfectly safe the other thousand bloody times you've driven down it then one day someone shoots your car up. "Why were you driving down that road if someone could've shot your car up?" Because it's a perfectly safe fucking road and the guy only shot my car up because he's a dumb cunt who thought I was driving the car of his sworn enemy.

The problem is that that road isn't safe - to extend your analogy, you know full well that two gangs are having a shootout further down the road, and you're driving a commercial bus full of passengers.

Why do you risk their lives by putting the bus near the crossfire? You don't - you re-route your bus around the blocks where people are shooting at each other.

MA has no responsibility for damages. One could argue that Ukraine does for not extending the no fly zone to those altitudes when it became known the rebels possessed such weapons.

Or Russia, for supplying them to the rebels and training them to use them. The SA-11 isn't your kid's air rifle: the missiles are longer than the typical suburban vehicle and take a team of trained operators to properly identify, lock on to and fire at targets.

[United Marxist Nations]

Malaysia Airlines can't be held responsible for being shot down. It's absurd. It's like driving your car down a road that's been perfectly safe the other thousand bloody times you've driven down it then one day someone shoots your car up. "Why were you driving down that road if someone could've shot your car up?" Because it's a perfectly safe fucking road and the guy only shot my car up because he's a dumb cunt who thought I was driving the car of his sworn enemy.

The problem is that that road isn't safe - to extend your analogy, you know full well that two gangs are having a shootout further down the road, and you're driving a commercial bus full of passengers.

Why do you risk their lives by putting the bus near the crossfire? You don't - you re-route your bus around the blocks where people are shooting at each other.

MA has no responsibility for damages. One could argue that Ukraine does for not extending the no fly zone to those altitudes when it became known the rebels possessed such weapons.

Or Russia, for supplying them to the rebels and training them to use them. The SA-11 isn't your kid's air rifle: the missiles are longer than the typical suburban vehicle and take a team of trained operators to properly identify, lock on to and fire at targets.

Russia didn't supply it, and it's confirmed that the militias have at least one former SAM operator (remember, both countries are former Soviet republics that maintain military conscription).

[New Chalcedon]

Most people seem to think that it was pro Russian rebels from the Ukraine but, that it was not planned by Vladimir Putin because apparently they got body experts who read signs on the body, to read Putin and they thought he was absolutely pissed off beyond belief, but the main problem is that England and America don't want to offend them too much, otherwise the west will lose the majority of its oil.

America is a net exporter.

True as of Nov last year, but only barely, and only temporarily (caused by a serious dip in imports). And most of America's imports (the US imports a lot of oil, why I don't know when its domestic production can satisfy its demand) are sourced from Canada in any case.

Europe, on the other hand...If the US should decide to provide direct support to Kiev, don't expect the EU's co-operation. They've got a lot to lose by pissing Russia off before developing alternatives to Russian imports.

[Allanea]

Or Russia, for supplying them to the rebels and training them to use them. The SA-11 isn't your kid's air rifle: the missiles are longer than the typical suburban vehicle and take a team of trained operators to properly identify, lock on to and fire at targets.

And they have failed at least one of those three.

[New Chalcedon]

Or Russia, for supplying them to the rebels and training them to use them. The SA-11 isn't your kid's air rifle: the missiles are longer than the typical suburban vehicle and take a team of trained operators to properly identify, lock on to and fire at targets.

And they have failed at least one of those three.

So the common theory goes. There's the possibility that Russia (or the rebels) wanted MH-17 downed, but I can't imagine why.

But faulty target identification - particularly from 20-30 year old radar sets - would be about par for the course for half-trained operators.

[Imperializt Russia]

And they have failed at least one of those three.

So the common theory goes. There's the possibility that Russia (or the rebels) wanted MH-17 downed, but I can't imagine why.

But faulty target identification - particularly from 20-30 year old radar sets - would be about par for the course for half-trained operators.

I don't think you know how radars "identify" targets. What the radar actually "sees" is a blob of radar reflection. For a Boeing 727, this is about twenty square metres (about a hundred thousand times greater than the F-35). This is probably roughly the same figure as an An-26 transport.

Without access to a civil radar network, which a military set would have and an insurgent group clearly did not have access to, you don't have the civil aviation data - thus, no information on civil aviation.

[Registug]

Malaysia Airlines can't be held responsible for being shot down. It's absurd. It's like driving your car down a road that's been perfectly safe the other thousand bloody times you've driven down it then one day someone shoots your car up. "Why were you driving down that road if someone could've shot your car up?" Because it's a perfectly safe fucking road and the guy only shot my car up because he's a dumb cunt who thought I was driving the car of his sworn enemy.

The problem is that that road isn't safe - to extend your analogy, you know full well that two gangs are having a shootout further down the road, and you're driving a commercial bus full of passengers.

Why do you risk their lives by putting the bus near the crossfire? You don't - you re-route your bus around the blocks where people are shooting at each other.

How are you supposed to know that the road was unsafe? Four other fucking buses drove through and they were just fine!

[Al-Orthodoxia]

The problem is that that road isn't safe - to extend your analogy, you know full well that two gangs are having a shootout further down the road, and you're driving a commercial bus full of passengers.

Why do you risk their lives by putting the bus near the crossfire? You don't - you re-route your bus around the blocks where people are shooting at each other.

How are you supposed to know that the road was unsafe? Four other fucking buses drove through and they were just fine!

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

[Imperializt Russia]

How are you supposed to know that the road was unsafe? Four other fucking buses drove through and they were just fine!

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

Explain the flights that decided to avoid Eastern Ukraine by detouring over Syria?

By your maths, the likelihood of being shot down over Syria is surely astronomical by now.

[Registug]

How are you supposed to know that the road was unsafe? Four other fucking buses drove through and they were just fine!

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

So tell me, how many people predicted that this would happen before it happened? Since apparently it was SO FUCKING OBVIOUS.

[United Marxist Nations]

Because it is a warzone, obviously.

The longer event A doesn't happen, the bigger the chance becomes.

So tell me, how many people predicted that this would happen before it happened? Since apparently it was SO FUCKING OBVIOUS.

The separatists were known to have such a weapon by the Ukrainian government. It was Ukraine's fault for not extending the no-fly zone to such altitudes.

[Costa Fierro]

Tell me, if someone shoots someone else dead using your gun, who should get the blame?

[United Marxist Nations]

Tell me, if someone shoots someone else dead using your gun, who should get the blame?

The situations really aren't at all comparable.

[Costa Fierro]

Tell me, if someone shoots someone else dead using your gun, who should get the blame?

The situations really aren't at all comparable.

Who gets the blame?

[United Marxist Nations]

The situations really aren't at all comparable.

Who gets the blame?

Well, if you know they have your gun, and have shot several of your people who have tried to take the gun, you have the duty to tell people "hey, there's a guy over there shooting pretty wildly, and we don't know if he'll be able to tell that you're not one of us."