Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[The Alma Mater]

What was that quote again ? "Russians only have two friends - their navy and their airforce" - or something like that ?

"Army and Fleet" - in Alexander III times there were not airforce. Yet.

And despite that often quoted phrase he've radically changed the whole direction of Russian foreign policy allying with France (a Republic! With the "Marselliese" for a national anthem! Shock! Shock and horror!), which later transformed into Entente. Because Russia also have "partners" and "strategic interests"

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

"Army and Fleet" - in Alexander III times there were not airforce. Yet.

And despite that often quoted phrase he've radically changed the whole direction of Russian foreign policy allying with France (a Republic! With the "Marselliese" for a national anthem! Shock! Shock and horror!), which later transformed into Entente. Because Russia also have "partners" and "strategic interests"

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

Uh...that's pretty much standard power politics there.

[The Alma Mater]

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

Uh...that's pretty much standard power politics there.

It is indeed normal for politicians to think this way.
But populations ? Hell no. Those tend to still believe in concepts like "loyalty" and "friendship" - despite Terry Pratchett accurately describing them as "the big lies"

[Free Tristania]

Every Russian is good.

Care to elaborate on "They haven't changed a bit since", ol' timer? Cause, you've probably were alive during the McCarthy's era and all those spike of USSR/Russophobia.

Or, you are just a some edgy youngster repeating like a drivel a party line about the "ebul Rushins!".

Given that he's expressed his hope for Russians to contract AIDS previously in this thread, I think we know the answer to that.

Another typically Russian lie. I said that we shouldn't help them. We'll simply let nature run its course. After all: what else could we do ? You barbarians just blew a plane with the world's top AIDS researchers from the sky. And why should we help you, anyway ? Karma is a bitch.

[Free Tristania]

"Army and Fleet" - in Alexander III times there were not airforce. Yet.

And despite that often quoted phrase he've radically changed the whole direction of Russian foreign policy allying with France (a Republic! With the "Marselliese" for a national anthem! Shock! Shock and horror!), which later transformed into Entente. Because Russia also have "partners" and "strategic interests"

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

Russians also tend to create their own enemies.

[Lyttenburg]

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

Actually, that's very simplified view.

If we (the Russians in the broadest sense of the word) were "very progmatic" we wouldn't have spent so much money, blood and sweat to fight for "our Slavyan brothers" in all those wars on Balkans and would instead threw Serbia under the bus in 1914. If we were "very pragmatic" we wouldn't have attent this disastrous offensisive in the Eastern Prussia in 1914, all to draw German divisions from Paris (a sacrifice totally forgotten today by the West).

The last Russian president who have called the Western leader a "friend" was Boris Yeltsyn.

Need I say more?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Uh...that's pretty much standard power politics there.

It is indeed normal for politicians to think this way.
But populations ? Hell no. Those tend to still believe in concepts like "loyalty" and "friendship" - despite Terry Pratchett accurately describing them as "the big lies"

Russian's don't think that way. Russian opinion of the US, for example, is highly variable. Despite their tendency to mount a gruff and grim facade, Russians tend to be quite hot-blooded. For example, in 2013, more than half of Russians had a 'favorable' opinion (given choices of 'favorable,' 'somewhat favorable,' 'somewhat unfavorable' and 'unfavorable') of the United States. The present poll says it's below 25%. I imagine next year, assuming nobody does anything stupid in this situation, it will go back up.

Another typically Russian lie. I said that we shouldn't help them. We'll simply let nature run its course. After all: what else could we do ? You barbarians just blew a plane with the world's top AIDS researchers from the sky. And why should we help you, anyway ? Karma is a bitch.

I'm American, you silly git.

[Lyttenburg]

Another typically Russian lie. I said that we shouldn't help them. We'll simply let nature run its course. After all: what else could we do ? You barbarians just blew a plane with the world's top AIDS researchers from the sky. And why should we help you, anyway ? Karma is a bitch.

Quick, OMG! You were just identified as a RUSSIAN! Hurry to your nearest RF consulate to get the Russian passport for free! But that's not all! As part of his devious plan of the Russian Lebensraum, Putin (personnaly!) will grant you several acres of Crimean land with your own fazenda built by the best builders in Tajikistan!

Russians also tend to create their own enemies.

Yeah! So true! Russian principalities (somehow!) created the Mongol hordes and the Teutonic/Swordbearers order in 1200s. Then they created Poland from the scratch (although Poles may argue with you). Then we created Ottoman Empire and Crimean Khanate (obviously, by allowing them to raid and burn our lands and to take our people as slaves). Napoleon was although Russian creature. As well as Britain. And Hitler.

Please, please, please Free Tristania -tell us more!

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Another typically Russian lie. I said that we shouldn't help them. We'll simply let nature run its course. After all: what else could we do ? You barbarians just blew a plane with the world's top AIDS researchers from the sky. And why should we help you, anyway ? Karma is a bitch.

Quick, OMG! You were just identified as a RUSSIAN! Hurry to your nearest RF consulate to get the Russian passport for free! But that's not all! As part of his devious plan of the Russian Lebensraum, Putin (personnaly!) will grant you several acres of Crimean land with your own fazenda built by the best builders in Tajikistan!

Soon Oregon will join the glorious new Russian communist empire. For the Motherland, Putin and mom's borscht!

[The Alma Mater]

But no friends.
Very Pragmatic. Pretty Realistic. Very Russian.

As said: they have not changed a bit.

Actually, that's very simplified view.

Of course it is. As is your view of the western world.
Difference is - I realise this

[Herrebrugh]

Apparently a Dutch reporter thought it would be a good idea to read out of a passenger's journal a bit.

[Imperializt Russia]

Another typically Russian lie. I said that we shouldn't help them. We'll simply let nature run its course. After all: what else could we do ? You barbarians just blew a plane with the world's top AIDS researchers from the sky. And why should we help you, anyway ? Karma is a bitch.

I'm American, you silly git.

Offensive assumptions abound, eh?

[Imperializt Russia]

Apparently a Dutch reporter thought it would be a good idea to read out of a passenger's journal a bit.

IIRC, this is not actually hugely uncommon. Why else do you think they've been filling up news hours with pictures of teddy bears and the Lonely Planet guide?

Likely, reaction is quite harsh because it's coming amongst claims of bodies being moved and possessions looted.

[Neoconstantius]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

[Herrebrugh]

Apparently a Dutch reporter thought it would be a good idea to read out of a passenger's journal a bit.

IIRC, this is not actually hugely uncommon. Why else do you think they've been filling up news hours with pictures of teddy bears and the Lonely Planet guide?

Likely, reaction is quite harsh because it's coming amongst claims of bodies being moved and possessions looted.

No idea. I haven't seen anything like it on Dutch television.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

Plot twist:
Separatists actually knew what they were doing and didn't want to deal with the organizational headache of coordinating an international team.

[Rabopari]

Aparentley there was a military aircraft near flight MH17 when it was shot down

[Imperializt Russia]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

Plot twist:
Separatists actually knew what they were doing and didn't want to deal with the organizational headache of coordinating an international team.

It's almost as if emotions cloud judgement.

[Neoconstantius]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

Plot twist:
Separatists actually knew what they were doing and didn't want to deal with the organizational headache of coordinating an international team.

IMO, they just didn't want Kiev controlling the site and taking the evidence for themselves. Instead they communicated directly with the Dutch and Malaysian governments.

Aparentley there was a military aircraft near flight MH17 when it was shot down

It was being escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets, according to The Aviationist, a well-reputed aviation news site.

[Lyttenburg]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

"Oh, no-no-no! What you mean "cooperative"?! But we, the "Free Independent and Highly Objective Western Press" already painted them as sub-human uncultured baby eating monsters! US State Dept is already on its prized high (war)horse! We have devoted so much time to the new round of Russia-hatred! And now what, abandon all that in the face of new facts?! You are heartless! Merciless!

Oh, what a cruel world! I'm melting, melting!"

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Plot twist:
Separatists actually knew what they were doing and didn't want to deal with the organizational headache of coordinating an international team.

IMO, they just didn't want Kiev controlling the site and taking the evidence for themselves. Instead they communicated directly with the Dutch and Malaysian governments.

Entirely possible as well. But, given the news coming from Kiev, I wouldn't say it was an unreasonable response from their point of view.

[Neoconstantius]

The UN Security Council has unanimously approved a comprehensive probe of the MH17 crash. 15-0 vote.

[Imperializt Russia]

The UN Security Council has unanimously approved a comprehensive probe of the MH17 crash. 15-0 vote.

Like they wouldn't.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Dutch forensic teams onsite have reported that rebels have been cooperative and have directed the train carrying the bodies to depart for Kharkiv, after which they will be returned to the Netherlands for identification.

The Dutch experts have further stated they are "impressed" by the work of the local response teams in handling and storing the bodies. Peter van Vliet, the leader of the expert team, is quoted as saying "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place".

Additionally, a Malaysian delegation in Donetsk reports that the rebels have agreed to turn over the flight recorders to the Malaysian government.

"Oh, no-no-no! What you mean "cooperative" (1)?! But we, the "Free Independent and Highly Objective Western Press" already painted them as sub-human uncultured baby eating monsters (2)! US State Dept is already on its prized high (war)horse (3)! We have devoted so much time to the new round of Russia-hatred (4)! And now what, abandon all that in the face of new facts (5)?! You are heartless! Merciless!

Oh, what a cruel world! I'm melting, melting!"

1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cooperative
2) Nope, just drunken and disorganized louts responding poorly to a crisis, likely due to a lack of organization, orders from higher-up, or understanding of the situation.
3)

4)

5) Nah, we recognize the rebels ability to stop the drunken and disorganized loutedness of its initial responders, and organize the effort to retrieve and store the bodies under adverse conditions.

[United Marxist Nations]

>Calls for UNSC Peacekeepers in Donbass
>No one responds to call for Peacekeepers
>UMN is sad