Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Limborg]

Not at all, you claiming that the lives of humans are more important then others?

Cute, now go be a good little boy and play with your toys.

That can be better said to you. You're childish behaviour shouldn't belog here. I thought 12 year olds weren't allowed here, what are you still doing here? I believe its passed your bed time.

Serious, grow a brain kid.

[Herrebrugh]

Cute, now go be a good little boy and play with your toys.

That can be better said to you. You're childish behaviour shouldn't belog here. I thought 12 year olds weren't allowed here, what are you still doing here? I believe its passed your bed time.

Serious, grow a brain kid.

Well, it is pretty much true that human lives are more important than other ones. At least for humans.

What do you think is worse, when one of your family members dies, or when your pet dies?

[Respawn]

No one has "all the evidence" here. We only know what the media says.

-The intercepted phone calls
-The deleted tweets showing a BUK missile in possession of the rebels
-The deleted VK post by a high ranking rebel
-Satellite data shows the missile was fired from rebel held territory
-They've admitted to shooting down military jets in the past 2 weeks

Unless something real damning to support the rebels' argument comes from the black box sitting in Moscow (inb4 we a hear some Ivan with a thick Russian accent pretending to be a Malaysian pilot), the evidence is pretty clear at this stage.

[Imperializt Russia]

No one has "all the evidence" here. We only know what the media says.

-The intercepted phone calls
-The deleted tweets showing a BUK missile in possession of the rebels
-The deleted VK post by a high ranking rebel
-Satellite data shows the missile was fired from rebel held territory
-They've admitted to shooting down military jets in the past 2 weeks

Unless something real damning to support the rebels' argument comes from the black box sitting in Moscow (inb4 we a hear some Ivan with a thick Russian accent pretending to be a Malaysian pilot), the evidence is pretty clear at this stage.

There is damning evidence. You do not have "all" the evidence, nor is there conclusive evidence in the public domain.
Only likelihoods.

[Nansurium]

Also, why would Ukrainian armed forces shoot down an aircraft that was coming from the west? Their attention is focused on the threats emerging from the east, from Russia. If this airliner was coming out of Moscow, then I'd find the notion that the Ukrainians caused this mess to be much more plausible. But since this aircraft was coming from Ukraine's western border, it would just not have made sense for them to shoot it down. I also have much more confidence in the Ukrainian military's ability to identify civilian aircraft. These Russian militias? Not so much.

[Oghuz Khanate]

List of passengers updated. Only 19 passengers left to identify.

Number of Dutch victims now estimated at 189.

Among the Dutch victims is a Dutch senator, Willem Witteveen, who perished with his family.

I cannot understand why the Dutch Prime-Minister is so keen to stay calm. This is an outrage.

[Ifreann]

-The intercepted phone calls
-The deleted tweets showing a BUK missile in possession of the rebels
-The deleted VK post by a high ranking rebel
-Satellite data shows the missile was fired from rebel held territory
-They've admitted to shooting down military jets in the past 2 weeks

Unless something real damning to support the rebels' argument comes from the black box sitting in Moscow (inb4 we a hear some Ivan with a thick Russian accent pretending to be a Malaysian pilot), the evidence is pretty clear at this stage.

There is damning evidence. You do not have "all" the evidence, nor is there conclusive evidence in the public domain.
Only likelihoods.

It still could have been aliens.

[Oaledonia]

That can be better said to you. You're childish behaviour shouldn't belog here. I thought 12 year olds weren't allowed here, what are you still doing here? I believe its passed your bed time.

Serious, grow a brain kid.

Touchy.

[Herrebrugh]

-The intercepted phone calls
-The deleted tweets showing a BUK missile in possession of the rebels
-The deleted VK post by a high ranking rebel
-Satellite data shows the missile was fired from rebel held territory
-They've admitted to shooting down military jets in the past 2 weeks

Unless something real damning to support the rebels' argument comes from the black box sitting in Moscow (inb4 we a hear some Ivan with a thick Russian accent pretending to be a Malaysian pilot), the evidence is pretty clear at this stage.

There is damning evidence. You do not have "all" the evidence, nor is there conclusive evidence in the public domain.
Only likelihoods.

However, it was never claimed that we had "all the evidence". Looking at Tahar's post, it is clearly implied that they mean all the evidence that we currently have. Not all the evidence that exists.

[Organized States]

-The intercepted phone calls
-The deleted tweets showing a BUK missile in possession of the rebels
-The deleted VK post by a high ranking rebel
-Satellite data shows the missile was fired from rebel held territory
-They've admitted to shooting down military jets in the past 2 weeks

Unless something real damning to support the rebels' argument comes from the black box sitting in Moscow (inb4 we a hear some Ivan with a thick Russian accent pretending to be a Malaysian pilot), the evidence is pretty clear at this stage.

There is damning evidence. You do not have "all" the evidence, nor is there conclusive evidence in the public domain.
Only likelihoods.

I'd assume the NSA is all over this right now, so many unsecured comm lines with those rebels.

[Herrebrugh]

List of passengers updated. Only 19 passengers left to identify.

Number of Dutch victims now estimated at 189.

Among the Dutch victims is a Dutch senator, Willem Witteveen, who perished with his family.

I cannot understand why the Dutch Prime-Minister is so keen to stay calm. This is an outrage.

Not so much an estimate. I'm pretty sure this is an accurate count.

And it's his job to stay calm. He can't go "And now we'll kill those Russian hoerenzonen!" That would be very counterproductive.

[Imperializt Russia]

Also, why would Ukrainian armed forces shoot down an aircraft that was coming from the west? Their attention is focused on the threats emerging from the east, from Russia. If this airliner was coming out of Moscow, then I'd find the notion that the Ukrainians caused this mess to be much more plausible. But since this aircraft was coming from Ukraine's western border, it would just not have made sense for them to shoot it down. I also have much more confidence in the Ukrainian military's ability to identify civilian aircraft. These Russian militias? Not so much.

Well, it happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Ai ... Shoot_down

[Limborg]

That can be better said to you. You're childish behaviour shouldn't belog here. I thought 12 year olds weren't allowed here, what are you still doing here? I believe its passed your bed time.

Serious, grow a brain kid.

Well, it is pretty much true that human lives are more important than other ones. At least for humans.

What do you think is worse, when one of your family members dies, or when your pet dies?

Objectively, i don't think humans are any better then animals, i would even say they are worse.
Emotionally, ofcourse a family member would be thougher then a pet.
But that doesn't instantly means that the animals should be forgotten, that's why i posted it. Those who don't give a shit about animals can just ignore it if they want, but acting like a child isn't going to help anyone and it only makes fools out of those that did.

[Limborg]

List of passengers updated. Only 19 passengers left to identify.

Number of Dutch victims now estimated at 189.

Among the Dutch victims is a Dutch senator, Willem Witteveen, who perished with his family.

I cannot understand why the Dutch Prime-Minister is so keen to stay calm. This is an outrage.

Only 4 remain to be identified.

[Herrebrugh]

Well, it is pretty much true that human lives are more important than other ones. At least for humans.

What do you think is worse, when one of your family members dies, or when your pet dies?

Objectively, i don't think humans are any better then animals, i would even say they are worse.
Emotionally, ofcourse a family member would be thougher then a pet.
But that doesn't instantly means that the animals should be forgotten, that's why i posted it. Those who don't give a shit about animals can just ignore it if they want, but acting like a child isn't going to help anyone and it only makes fools out of those that did.

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

Anyway, I agree that Oaledonia was acting a bit... Stupid... Though, that doesn't mean you should follow suit, either

[Langor Empire]

Also, why would Ukrainian armed forces shoot down an aircraft that was coming from the west? Their attention is focused on the threats emerging from the east, from Russia. If this airliner was coming out of Moscow, then I'd find the notion that the Ukrainians caused this mess to be much more plausible. But since this aircraft was coming from Ukraine's western border, it would just not have made sense for them to shoot it down. I also have much more confidence in the Ukrainian military's ability to identify civilian aircraft. These Russian militias? Not so much.

Because then they could blame it on Russia or the rebels, for example.

[Limborg]

Objectively, i don't think humans are any better then animals, i would even say they are worse.
Emotionally, ofcourse a family member would be thougher then a pet.
But that doesn't instantly means that the animals should be forgotten, that's why i posted it. Those who don't give a shit about animals can just ignore it if they want, but acting like a child isn't going to help anyone and it only makes fools out of those that did.

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

[Herrebrugh]

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

See my edit:

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

Anyway, I agree that Oaledonia was acting a bit... Stupid... Though, that doesn't mean you should follow suit, either

[Limborg]

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

See my edit:

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

Anyway, I agree that Oaledonia was acting a bit... Stupid... Though, that doesn't mean you should follow suit, either

Ah yeah, true. I just can't leave it to go against it.

[Nansurium]

Also, why would Ukrainian armed forces shoot down an aircraft that was coming from the west? Their attention is focused on the threats emerging from the east, from Russia. If this airliner was coming out of Moscow, then I'd find the notion that the Ukrainians caused this mess to be much more plausible. But since this aircraft was coming from Ukraine's western border, it would just not have made sense for them to shoot it down. I also have much more confidence in the Ukrainian military's ability to identify civilian aircraft. These Russian militias? Not so much.

Because then they could blame it on Russia or the rebels, for example.

But again, why would Ukraine feel motivated to do such a thing? International sympathy is clearly on their side. Why risk that with sympathy with such a gamble? I'm not saying that I know for sure that Russia or Russian-aligned rebels did this. We still don't have enough evidence to make such a conclusion. I'm just saying that such a scenario is much more plausible.

[Punkvania]

Importance is pretty subjective, usually. It all depends on what you happen to find important. I certainly find human lives much more important that those of other animals.

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

Well that is sad as well, but certainly losing your mother or your brother is worse than losing your pet parrot. Put it all in context.

[Roski]

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

Well that is sad as well, but certainly losing your mother or your brother is worse than losing your pet parrot. Put it all in context.

189 dutch.

That means some people may have lost their entire family.

[Nansurium]

Also, why would Ukrainian armed forces shoot down an aircraft that was coming from the west? Their attention is focused on the threats emerging from the east, from Russia. If this airliner was coming out of Moscow, then I'd find the notion that the Ukrainians caused this mess to be much more plausible. But since this aircraft was coming from Ukraine's western border, it would just not have made sense for them to shoot it down. I also have much more confidence in the Ukrainian military's ability to identify civilian aircraft. These Russian militias? Not so much.

Well, it happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Ai ... Shoot_down

The circumstances are a bit different as Ukraine was not engaged in a civil war with Russian aligned rebels. The two accidents don't seem analogous at all to me.

[Scholmeria]

And so? If ISIS took over Chinese nukes and launched it at America, is it the Chinese's fault? What's the point you're trying to make? It doesn't matter whose equipment they used, it's who used the equipment, period.

Lets fix t2nd The weapons were not taken from Russia they were given. So instead of the Confederate states of America invading China to get nukes to nuke the US, China gives the nuclear weapons to the confederate state of the US.

So yes if China gives nuclear weapons to the confederate states of the US, China would have a degree of moral responsibility for the use of those nuclear weapons.

In that case the US is responsible for ISIL,,the talibans and all thoose Islamofasciats that are destroying the Middle East.

[Herrebrugh]

And that is you're personal choice with wich i have no problem. But there's no reason to act childish (not pointed to you but to those that did) becouse of it. It are still lives that where lost with the plane, and nobody can deny that.

Well that is sad as well, but certainly losing your mother or your brother is worse than losing your pet parrot. Put it all in context.

That's already been noted.