Thoughts about Israelstine?

[Sjovenia]

Vice News Dispatch 3

Any thoughts on the Israel-Palestine conflict? Should the UN get involved? Is there any way to settle this dispute?

In the vice news Dispatch 3 an off duty soldier says he wants to kill all Arabs. Personally as a human being that pisses me off. We, as Americans, have been at war in the Middle East for a while now and even after 9/11 I never thought "Oh I want to kill all Arabs or Saudis or Iraqis."
Just my comment about the video. Oh I do find the Iron Dome pretty cool. Good reference for my nation if I need to do something of the same.

[Calimera II]

This must be the 19th thread about the conflict this week..

[Adab]

I think we can discuss about that here.

[Master Shake]

Pro Palestine is all I have to say....

[Sobreva]

Both sides are at fault. Palestine needs to stop lobbing rockets into Israel, and Israel needs to be more precise with their strikes or stop them altogether. If they sent in ground forces only, the casualties on the Palestinian side and international backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[Quintium]

Israel needs to be more precise with their strikes or stop them altogether.

Israel can't be any more precise with those air strikes. First, it determines where the launch installations or mortars are. Then, it prepares an air strike. Then, it telephones the people nearby, telling them to get out of the area because an air strike is coming. Then, after a while, they attack. The reason civilians are dying is not because Israel is bombing Palestine indiscriminately, but because Hamas chooses to put up launch installations or mortars near or even on top of schools, hospitals and crowded residential areas, and forces civilians to stay after Israel tells them to leave. That way, Hamas wins either way - either it gets to continue firing rockets and shells at Israel, or it gets to show dead women and children to the mass media to garner sympathy from gullible idiots.

[New Aerios]

Israel needs to be more precise with their strikes or stop them altogether.

Israel can't be any more precise with those air strikes. First, it determines where the launch installations or mortars are. Then, it prepares an air strike. Then, it telephones the people nearby, telling them to get out of the area because an air strike is coming. Then, after a while, they attack. The reason civilians are dying is not because Israel is bombing Palestine indiscriminately, but because Hamas chooses to put up launch installations or mortars near or even on top of schools, hospitals and crowded residential areas, and forces civilians to stay after Israel tells them to leave. That way, Hamas wins either way - either it gets to continue firing rockets and shells at Israel, or it gets to show dead women and children to the mass media to garner sympathy from gullible idiots.

Israel has Iron Dome. Nothing would happen to them even if they completely ignored the Hamas rockets being fired at them. Instead they continue to respond to the futile efforts of Hamas by knowingly firing missiles at schools and hospitals.

Yes, there are mortars in those schools and hospitals. Yes, Hamas are firing rockets and shells at Israel. No, those rockets and shells are totally incapable of doing any damage to Israel. Israel are fully aware of this fact.

Hamas doesn't win either way. Hamas wins one way. If Israel doesn't respond, Hamas does no damage with their pathetic bombardments and look like an even bigger bunch of cunts, while Israel gets to look like the good guys. If Israel keep responding, Hamas gets to show off pictures of dead Palestinian children to the media, and they gain a legitimate reason to keep firing at Israel. For Hamas to lose, Israel must stop being a bunch of war criminals who knowingly murder large numbers of civilians.

[Saiwania]

Pro Israel is all I have to say. There are no reasons for me to support a Palestinian state, ever.

[Master Shake]

Israel can't be any more precise with those air strikes. First, it determines where the launch installations or mortars are. Then, it prepares an air strike. Then, it telephones the people nearby, telling them to get out of the area because an air strike is coming. Then, after a while, they attack. The reason civilians are dying is not because Israel is bombing Palestine indiscriminately, but because Hamas chooses to put up launch installations or mortars near or even on top of schools, hospitals and crowded residential areas, and forces civilians to stay after Israel tells them to leave. That way, Hamas wins either way - either it gets to continue firing rockets and shells at Israel, or it gets to show dead women and children to the mass media to garner sympathy from gullible idiots.

Israel has Iron Dome. Nothing would happen to them even if they completely ignored the Hamas rockets being fired at them. Instead they continue to respond to the futile efforts of Hamas by knowingly firing missiles at schools and hospitals.

Yes, there are mortars in those schools and hospitals. Yes, Hamas are firing rockets and shells at Israel. No, those rockets and shells are totally incapable of doing any damage to Israel. Israel are fully aware of this fact.

Hamas doesn't win either way. Hamas wins one way. If Israel doesn't respond, Hamas does no damage with their pathetic bombardments and look like an even bigger bunch of cunts, while Israel gets to look like the good guys. If Israel keep responding, Hamas gets to show off pictures of dead Palestinian children to the media, and they gain a legitimate reason to keep firing at Israel. For Hamas to lose, Israel must stop being a bunch of war criminals who knowingly murder large numbers of civilians.

Agreed. How can anyone with a soul,be deemed gullible, when viewing the corpses of innocent children, Quintium?

Don't tell me they shouldn't have been in Palestine,,,

[Quintium]

Israel has Iron Dome. Nothing would happen to them even if they completely ignored the Hamas rockets being fired at them. Instead they continue to respond to the futile efforts of Hamas by knowingly firing missiles at schools and hospitals.

Iron Dome is nice, but it's not fool-proof. Plenty of rockets and mortar shells have already struck in Israel, even if most were intercepted, and there's been at least one death and significant damage in Israel. You shouldn't expect Israel to just sit back and take it. They warn the people there to leave. That those people are held there by Hamas to serve as sympathy meat is something you should blame Hamas for.

Oh, and in more recent news, the truce between Israel and Hamas has been broken again; as always, Hamas has continued to fire rockets and shells at Israel, ignoring the truce and seeing it only as a way to be able to regroup and prepare better attacks for a few hours. That's how Hamas works - you must understand that it doesn't want peace. It doesn't want to settle for anything other than the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all Jews in the region, and its stance during negotiations and adherence to terms of a truce will reflect that.

Also, Israel should respond, because it actually has to look like the big villain in the region. The Arabs around Israel don't think in terms of war and peace - they think in terms of dominance and submission, strength and weakness. If Israel seeks peace, it is seen as submissive and weak and the states around it will see opportunities to attack it, whether that's through embargoes or raids or even a full-scale invasion. Israel needs to show that it's willing to fight back every time it is attacked.

[Quintium]

Agreed. How can anyone with a soul,be deemed gullible, when viewing the corpses of innocent children, Quintium?

It's because the corpses of children are used against Israel by the same people who kept those children near their mortars and rocket launching installations after Israel warned them to leave. Basically, they keep those children there intentionally, and if Israel destroys their mortars and rocket launching installations, they can at least use those children to garner sympathy from people in the west who have been taught from an early age that submission is the only way and that it's better to die than to protect yourself if protecting yourself kills another person.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Either a three-state or a one-state solution is the viable solution. The realities of how demographically and economically different the Gaza Strip is compared to the West Bank mean that the Palestinians are unlikely to have an effective single national government, especially when it's split by the Israeli state.

A three-state solution would effectively legitimise a state of constant war between the Israelis and the Gazans. Rather not.

At the very least, a one-state solution run from outside would mean the Israelis and Arabs alike have someone else to hate for a bit.

Maybe think of a better name for it than Israelstine, though.

[Canaore]

In my opinion, everyone would be better off if Israel just withdrew from the West Bank, recognized the Palestinean state in exchange for getting Jerusalem and became a de facto secular country. But regardless of what we think, Israel is not going to stop settling the West Bank, Hamas is not going to stop firing rockets at Israel and fundies will always some degree of influence on Israel's actions and government.

[Union of Socialist European Republics]

There can only be a One-state solution. The zionists need to be driven out, because Israel has no right to exist. They need to give up on their fascist occupation and give the Palestinians their land back, so that they can be free of jewish terrorism again.
Clearly I'm Pro-Palestine and against fascist Israel.

[The Time Alliance]

Israelstine? Is this a shipping thread about the two?

There is simply one solution. Partition it again but split it 50-50

[Calimera II]

Israelstine? Is this a shipping thread about the two?

There is simply one solution. Partition it again but split it 50-50

Than israel should get a large piece of Jordania too.

[Christiaanistan]

Whatever Isaac Herzog has said about it most recently, so there. The only people that I despise more than right-wingers are the ilk of Palestinian apologists, to whom any view you state besides "Send them home to Europe!" is somehow "racist" and "ignorant," as if their own views were not racist and ignorant.

[Napkiraly]

There can only be a One-state solution. The zionists need to be driven out, because Israel has no right to exist. They need to give up on their fascist occupation and give the Palestinians their land back, so that they can be free of jewish terrorism again.
Clearly I'm Pro-Palestine and against fascist Israel.

Why does Israel not have the right to exist?

[Quintium]

Why does Israel not have the right to exist?

According to the Palestinians, because it is their land.
According to the Arab nations surrounding Israel, because - like all of the world - it is rightful Muslim land.
According to the European left, because Israel is considered western and is supposed to hate itself but doesn't.

[Sjovenia]

Israel needs to be more precise with their strikes or stop them altogether.

Israel can't be any more precise with those air strikes. First, it determines where the launch installations or mortars are. Then, it prepares an air strike. Then, it telephones the people nearby, telling them to get out of the area because an air strike is coming. Then, after a while, they attack. The reason civilians are dying is not because Israel is bombing Palestine indiscriminately, but because Hamas chooses to put up launch installations or mortars near or even on top of schools, hospitals and crowded residential areas, and forces civilians to stay after Israel tells them to leave. That way, Hamas wins either way - either it gets to continue firing rockets and shells at Israel, or it gets to show dead women and children to the mass media to garner sympathy from gullible idiots.

Well HAMAS and the people choose to just sort of stay in the area. Although I believe the telephone app was for Israelis not Palestinians.

Israelstine? Is this a shipping thread about the two?

There is simply one solution. Partition it again but split it 50-50

Than israel should get a large piece of Jordania too.

Technically wasn't Israel granted to Israelis through England and the UN?

Why does Israel not have the right to exist?

According to the Palestinians, because it is their land.
According to the Arab nations surrounding Israel, because - like all of the world - it is rightful Muslim land.
According to the European left, because Israel is considered western and is supposed to hate itself but doesn't.

Hate itself?

[Napkiraly]

Why does Israel not have the right to exist?

According to the Palestinians, because it is their land.
According to the Arab nations surrounding Israel, because - like all of the world - it is rightful Muslim land.
According to the European left, because Israel is considered western and is supposed to hate itself but doesn't.

Just gonna point out not everyone on the European left thinks that way. I'm centre-left and think both sides have fucked up.

[Viritica]

Uh, I mean, I support Israel. But I also support a two-state solution.

[Quintium]

Hate itself?

It's a very long story, and I really ought to write a standard version that I can copy and paste whenever the need arises. Basically, after the student protests throughout the western world in 1968 a new generation of intellectuals took over, and in time they also became the journalists, politicians, television producers, authors and opinion leaders that we know today. They were also extremely progressive, and over time they convinced themselves that they had some sort of historical debt to the rest of the world and that their ancestors were shameful people whose memory is worth nothing but scorn. It was in the decades between then and now that it became popular to blame the west for everything ("they exploit each other because we keep buying products from them"), to attack those who defend Christianity ("but what about the Crusades") and conservatism ("it was only good if you were a white man") and nationalism ("there was a man seventy years ago who was a nationalist, and look how that turned out") and to instinctively defend those who seek to destroy our cultures and nations ("borders are artificial") and to nuance their views ("they only want to destroy us because our ancestors once colonized their lands").

Israel doesn't buy that, because it can't - if it does, it'll be seen as weak and it'll be gone within a year. So, the European left treats it as it treats the European right - with contempt and anger because it refuses to tow the line, which is that western civilization is bad, that the people around Israel aren't that bad and just want to live in peace even if they explicitly claim otherwise, and that you should just take your end at the hands of extremists lying down.

[Sjovenia]

Uh, I mean, I support Israel. But I also support a two-state solution.

Meaning co existing of the two countries right? With less violence and more tolerance of eachother. If so then I agree.

[Viritica]

Uh, I mean, I support Israel. But I also support a two-state solution.

Meaning co existing of the two countries right? With less violence and more tolerance of eachother. If so then I agree.

Yes, we agree.