Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[Lalaki]

The 1965 Immigration Act caused huge problems. We need to go back to a strict quota system that favors wealthy and educated nations over poor nations with high crime rates.

There goes the idea of the US being the beacon of light for the oppressed.

[Libertarian California]

The 1965 Immigration Act caused huge problems. We need to go back to a strict quota system that favors wealthy and educated nations over poor nations with high crime rates.

There goes the idea of the US being the beacon of light for the oppressed.

Good. It was high-minded utopianism anyways.

[Blakk Metal]

The 1965 Immigration Act caused huge problems. We need to go back to a strict quota system that favors wealthy and educated nations over poor nations with high crime rates.

There goes the idea of the US being the beacon of light for the oppressed.

Of course! It was, after all, the Soviet Union who brought the Japanese Empire to its knees after it was attacked in 1938, instead of what the evil imperialist US did, which was work with the Nazis to divy up Poland and then steal clay from Rumania and Finland.

[Threayce]

There goes the idea of the US being the beacon of light for the oppressed.

Of course! It was, after all, the Soviet Union who brought the Japanese Empire to its knees after it was attacked in 1938, instead of what the evil imperialist US did, which was work with the Nazis to divy up Poland and then steal clay from Rumania and Finland.

Where do the Soviets come up in this conversation?

America's past accomplishments ("holy shit, we played a part in winning war that one time, fuck yeah, america!") do not make us fucking immune to criticism of our morality as a nation.

[Blakk Metal]

Of course! It was, after all, the Soviet Union who brought the Japanese Empire to its knees after it was attacked in 1938, instead of what the evil imperialist US did, which was work with the Nazis to divy up Poland and then steal clay from Rumania and Finland.

Where do the Soviets come up in this conversation?

America's past accomplishments ("holy shit, we played a part in winning war that one time, fuck yeah, america!") do not make us fucking immune to criticism of our morality as a nation.

My point is that instead of bringing a lot of people to America, the philanthropically minded should bring America to them.

[Lalaki]

If a peaceful potential taxpayer wants to come in, document them. We have too extensive/harsh immigration laws, that lack any empathy for the potential refugees wanting to come in. Hence, many people go undocumented.

[Threayce]

There goes the idea of the US being the beacon of light for the oppressed.

Good. It was high-minded utopianism anyways.

Utopian: Modeled on or aiming for a state in which everything is perfect; idealistic.

How the fuck is fighting oppression, or helping the poor high-minded utopianism? Unless any act of goodwill or kindness is also high-minded utopianism, in which case, it is hardly a bad thing.

[Threayce]

Where do the Soviets come up in this conversation?

America's past accomplishments ("holy shit, we played a part in winning war that one time, fuck yeah, america!") do not make us fucking immune to criticism of our morality as a nation.

My point is that instead of bringing a lot of people to America, the philanthropically minded should bring America to them.

That isn't what you said. Like, at all.

Besides, the concept of "bringing america to them" is one part imperialistic, and another ridiculous.

[Blakk Metal]

My point is that instead of bringing a lot of people to America, the philanthropically minded should bring America to them.

That isn't what you said. Like, at all.

Besides, the concept of "bringing america to them" is one part imperialistic, and another ridiculous.

Nippon doesn't think it's ridicurous.

[Communal Ecotopia]

Along with CIA support for right-wing coups and paramilitaries, yes.

And KGB (and OLAS) support for left-wing coups and revolutions and paramilitary groups as well. One of the reasons why the underdeveloped world is, well, underdeveloped, is because both sides used it as a battleground during the Cold War. If we are to blame someone for this, let's blame both sides equally.

Of course both sides engaged in proxy wars, but I haven't heard of left-wing death squads disappearing people in the Southern Cone (as a state policy...of course murders happened, and I don't condone that either) or trying to almost entirely eradicate native peoples, such as the Quiche Maya, as in Guatemala and El Salvador.

[Communal Ecotopia]

I can't help but be bemused that there's an actual honest-to-god humanitarian crisis going on in Central America and all some of you can think about is how inconvenient it is to take in terrified child refugees and whine about how many diseases they have from being malnourished and living in squalor.

Speaks a lot about your priorities.

Thank you!

[Blakk Metal]

I can't help but be bemused that there's an actual honest-to-god humanitarian crisis going on in Central America and all some of you can think about is how inconvenient it is to take in terrified child refugees and whine about how many diseases they have from being malnourished and living in squalor.

Speaks a lot about your priorities.

Governments are supposed to serve their wards? How shocking! I thought they were supposed to serve people who aren't normal whites!

[Lalaki]

I can't help but be bemused that there's an actual honest-to-god humanitarian crisis going on in Central America and all some of you can think about is how inconvenient it is to take in terrified child refugees and whine about how many diseases they have from being malnourished and living in squalor.

Speaks a lot about your priorities.

Thank you!

Here, here. These people need to get into the United States.

Document all peaceful potential taxpayers/students now! Help all refugees.

[Communal Ecotopia]

It helps but what about violent criminals from other countries? What about shipping hard drugs across the borders? Also, we have to kill off the citizenship by birth loophole.

We decriminalize hard drugs (though not fully legalize them), and we arrest violent criminals as they cross the border. Also, there is no “citizenship by birth loophole,” that is how citizenship works, are you going to tell me the Romans were just idiots?

This would help significantly, but it wouldn't erase a root cause. If we REALLY want to eliminate high levels of immigration by undocumented aliens, we need to start to make home a little better place to stay. Your proposal would do that with crime to some degree, but working with the government from where people are fleeing to insure local and less penetrable agriculture and industry is crucial.

[Estado Paulista]

Of course both sides engaged in proxy wars, but I haven't heard of left-wing death squads disappearing people in the Southern Cone (as a state policy...of course murders happened, and I don't condone that either)

But I'm sure you've heard of left-wing guerrilas kidnapping embassadors, arbitrality killing anyone whom they deemed "enemies of the revolution", conscripting child soldiers, trafficking drugs and etc., no?

Trying to almost entirely eradicate native peoples, such as the Quiche Maya, as in Guatemala and El Salvador.

That's too bad, as the FSLN conducted genocide against the Miskito people in the Atlantic coast of Nicaragua in order "to spread the revolution to the East".

I think the myth that the left-wing guerrileros were somehow morally superior to the right-wing death squads must be eradicated, just like the FSLN tried to eradicate the Miskitos.

[Blakk Metal]

Of course both sides engaged in proxy wars, but I haven't heard of left-wing death squads disappearing people in the Southern Cone (as a state policy...of course murders happened, and I don't condone that either)

But I'm sure you've heard of left-wing guerrilas kidnapping embassadors, arbitrality killing anyone whom they deemed "enemies of the revolution", conscripting child soldiers, trafficking drugs and etc., no?

You're referring to FARC, right?

[Estado Paulista]

But I'm sure you've heard of left-wing guerrilas kidnapping embassadors, arbitrality killing anyone whom they deemed "enemies of the revolution", conscripting child soldiers, trafficking drugs and etc., no?

You're referring to FARC, right?

Not exclusively.

[The Liberated Territories]

If a peaceful potential taxpayer wants to come in, document them. We have too extensive/harsh immigration laws, that lack any empathy for the potential refugees wanting to come in. Hence, many people go undocumented.

Agreed. Not to mention the economic benefits...

[Communal Ecotopia]

Because they are already filled?

By people. You know, Human beings.

He said that those places are struggling because immigrants left. The jobs they left can be filled by Americans. Read the post closer.

They CAN be, but almost no American would take them. Look at CNN's Inside Man documentary on this.

[Freistaat Sachse]

Their problems are not ours. It's as simple as that. Those illegals ought to be deported and there's no reason for us to do otherwise.

[Arkinesia]

"Inscription on the Statue of Liberty"

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Because basing policy on a French statue is an astute idea.

>French statue

The poem was written by an American.

Also I don't know what the nation that made the statue has anything to do with its relevance to the discussion. If anything it just further validates the point, this is a great monoculture, we have no innate ethnic identity or cultural identity. We take all kinds of different bits of everyone else's culture, so why not take bits of other countries' aesthetics?

[Libertarian California]

Because basing policy on a French statue is an astute idea.

>French statue

The poem was written by an American.

Also I don't know what the nation that made the statue has anything to do with its relevance to the discussion. If anything it just further validates the point, this is a great monoculture, we have no innate ethnic identity or cultural identity. We take all kinds of different bits of everyone else's culture, so why not take bits of other countries' aesthetics?

This country does have an ethnic identity that rather specifically outlined in the 1790 Naturalization Act. Unfortunately, certain elements have attempted to destroy this.

And many of those aesthetics are truly awful.

[Libertarian California]

Good. It was high-minded utopianism anyways.

Utopian: Modeled on or aiming for a state in which everything is perfect; idealistic.

How the fuck is fighting oppression, or helping the poor high-minded utopianism? Unless any act of goodwill or kindness is also high-minded utopianism, in which case, it is hardly a bad thing.

Believing that backwards, violent peoples can become law-abiding, picket-fence building Americans is idealistic, and foolish. It really isn't about fighting oppression.

[Libertarian California]

My point is that instead of bringing a lot of people to America, the philanthropically minded should bring America to them.

That isn't what you said. Like, at all.

Besides, the concept of "bringing america to them" is one part imperialistic, and another ridiculous.

>Bring America to them is imperialism
>Bring their country to America is not

[Threayce]

Utopian: Modeled on or aiming for a state in which everything is perfect; idealistic.

How the fuck is fighting oppression, or helping the poor high-minded utopianism? Unless any act of goodwill or kindness is also high-minded utopianism, in which case, it is hardly a bad thing.

Believing that backwards, violent peoples can become law-abiding, picket-fence building Americans is idealistic, and foolish. It really isn't about fighting oppression.

Implying that all illegal immigrants are backward and violent people.

And you wonder why people label opponents of immigration as racists.

>French statue

The poem was written by an American.

Also I don't know what the nation that made the statue has anything to do with its relevance to the discussion. If anything it just further validates the point, this is a great monoculture, we have no innate ethnic identity or cultural identity. We take all kinds of different bits of everyone else's culture, so why not take bits of other countries' aesthetics?

This country does have an ethnic identity that rather specifically outlined in the 1790 Naturalization Act. Unfortunately, certain elements have attempted to destroy this.

And many of those aesthetics are truly awful.

Firstly, no. It did nothing to establish an ethnic identity, the 1795 Naturalization Act did nothing more than lay down a legal definition for citizenship. Secondly, if you really want your point to be taken seriously, you shouldn't be basing it upon a document that excluded everyone who was not white from the benefits of citizenship.

Lastly, you can say that the aesthetics are awful, but your assertion has little to no meaning without any elaboration.