Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[ShadowDragons]

People choose to be insulted by certain words, just like people choose to say those words. Really it's just how you use the word. If you yell it, it's insulting. Language is a weird thing and you can't tell people the correct way to say things.

And language is a weird thing you go to school and learn how to say things properly.

You call someone a mescan it doesn't matter if you meant it joking or not, it is still derogatory. Calling someone "You illegal" is still derogatory, if you call someone "you faggot" is still derogatory, if you say "you nigger" is still derogatory.

Things may or may not be offensive depending on who you talk to, it doesn't make it less derogatory.

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What some of these people are saying, both on and off NS, is really infuriating.

'Gee, how dare these kids try to escape a life of poverty, crime and turmoil and seek refuge in our huge country that could support them?'

Firstly, how can someone be so narrow-minded that they can't realize that America is completely made up of immigrants? How can someone be so cold and inhospitable to turn young, innocent refuge-seekers away at the border to go back to a life of hardship and turmoil, so disgustingly, abhorrently cruel that they can't even recognize that they're humans, no different from the kids you have at home, just that they were born in a different place? How is it an invasion when some of the invaders still need their formula heated? How dare someone refuse these young people the fundamental human right of a decent life when they've just gone through more hardship and struggle than your first-world mind could ever imagine?

How could you shut them out?

I don't hate people who don't want to let them in. I hate their attitudes. And I hope that they can change them before it's too late.

/endrant

Immigration is OK if they are legal. My great grandparents LEGALLY entered the USA through Ellis Island. They followed the rules. Immigrants today should also follow the rules.

Asking people to follow the law is not racist (people like to overuse the race card here). I don't care if they are from Germany, Japan, Honduras, or Mexico. They need to follow the rules and show respect to the country they want to move to. They would expect the same from US citizens.

This is rich. Everyone likes to come about and go "Oh my parents entered the U.S. through ELLIS ISLAND! Look, it can totally be done you guys!"

Difference: Ellis Island is a tiny island, the Southern border isn't. That was in the late 1800s to the mid-1950s and, you know, immigration law is more broken than what it was back then. It certainly isn't as fucking simple as to come to the border and have the process done right there, sometimes it takes more than a decade. If your great grandparents were alive today, I doubt they'd have any luck entering into the U.S. in less than a year like it was back in the 1890s.

[Blekksprutia]

And language is a weird thing you go to school and learn how to say things properly.

You call someone a mescan it doesn't matter if you meant it joking or not, it is still derogatory. Calling someone "You illegal" is still derogatory, if you call someone "you faggot" is still derogatory, if you say "you nigger" is still derogatory.

Things may or may not be offensive depending on who you talk to, it doesn't make it less derogatory.

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

That doesn't make feelings invalid.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

And we don't care about your opinion!

[Blekksprutia]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

And we don't care about your opinion!

^this

[Blakk Metal]

People choose to be insulted by certain words, just like people choose to say those words. Really it's just how you use the word. If you yell it, it's insulting. Language is a weird thing and you can't tell people the correct way to say things.

Illegal is used in the same sense and intensity people would have used wetback a few years ago. Notice how they both have the same connotation, adding to the fact that illegal actually actively dehumanizes people through painting them under the widely-repulsed label of "criminal".

They are criminals.

[ShadowDragons]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

That doesn't make feelings invalid.

I just don't care and don't get why others do.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words make it much easier for someone to break your nose for saying things you clearly shouldn't.

Language is this beautiful thing that, while you may not hurt someone, you can piss them off to the point they will set your ass straight and into an ambulance or even make them feel bad and be depressed or they can endure verbal and emotional abuse from someone who is a prick. I'm also quoting facts, really.

[Blekksprutia]

Illegal is used in the same sense and intensity people would have used wetback a few years ago. Notice how they both have the same connotation, adding to the fact that illegal actually actively dehumanizes people through painting them under the widely-repulsed label of "criminal".

They are criminals.

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

[Threayce]

...so if I just mutter the 'n' word, it's ok?

I don't care, although the mods might not like it. That word was used all the time when I was young ( the 70's) and that just shows how our language changes.

Did you legitimate just defend the use of "nigger" because people used it when you were a kid?

r u evn sirius

[ShadowDragons]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. I don't care about feelings, I care about facts, words can't hurt anyone.

And we don't care about your opinion!

Okay, then why do you debate on this forum and read my posts?

[Blekksprutia]

I don't care, although the mods might not like it. That word was used all the time when I was young ( the 70's) and that just shows how our language changes.

Did you legitimate just defend the use of "nigger" because people used it when you were a kid?

r u evn sirius

He sounds like Paula Deen...

[ShadowDragons]

They are criminals.

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

We have poor kids too.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

They are criminals.

So is everyone who ever jaywalked, or everyone who ever tax evaded, or everyone who ever practiced "everyday corruption", and even lots of cases where people did not appropriately disposed of litter!

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't care, although the mods might not like it. That word was used all the time when I was young ( the 70's) and that just shows how our language changes.

Perhaps it's just my opinion, but if you speak hate softly, you're still speaking hate...

I mean, it's like someone goes and stabs you with a knife with a smile and then go "oh see! He did it with a smile! He was totally joking! We shouldn't care".

[Blekksprutia]

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

We have poor kids too.

They're kids who have dragged their asses across unfathomably huge expanses of desert, gone through more hardship than our minds could really comprehend, just to have a good life and escape terrible hardship in their home country... they're braver and tougher than we could probably ever be. Who the hell are we to turn them away?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

And we don't care about your opinion!

Okay, then why do you debate on this forum and read my posts?

To convince moderates.

I don't actually waste my time with active disseminators of reactionary ideologies and structurally oppressive language, viewpoints and reasoning.

[Threayce]

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

We have poor kids too.

Nice strawman.

[Blakk Metal]

They are criminals.

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

I don't care how much the US has to pay Central American child services, it is a bad idea for them to come unvetted into the US, even as slaves.

They are criminals.

So is everyone who ever jaywalked, or everyone who ever tax evaded, or everyone who ever practiced "everyday corruption", and even lots of cases where people did not appropriately disposed of litter!

Your point?

[ShadowDragons]

Did you legitimate just defend the use of "nigger" because people used it when you were a kid?

r u evn sirius

He sounds like Paula Deen...

My Theme Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

[Threayce]

He sounds like Paula Deen...

My Theme Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

he cant evn b bein sirius

[Blekksprutia]

He sounds like Paula Deen...

My Theme Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

Thank you for posting that nicely irrelevant link here?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

I don't care how much the US has to pay Central American child services, it is a bad idea for them to come unvetted into the US, even as slaves.

Why?

And no, the "genetics" argument doesn't count.

[ShadowDragons]

They are criminals.

So is everyone who ever jaywalked, or everyone who ever tax evaded, or everyone who ever practiced "everyday corruption", and even lots of cases where people did not appropriately disposed of litter!

Yes, reasoning.

[Threayce]

They're KIDS, man! Have some empathy.

I don't care how much the US has to pay Central American child services, it is a bad idea for them to come unvetted into the US, even as slaves.

I'm not sure what your trying to say here, but it sounds vaguely offensive.

Like, where did slavery come up in this conversation?