Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[Geilinor]

I'm not sure race has much to do with the success of a nation.

It does. The richest countries in Europe and the richest regions of the US are Germanic.

Richest regions of the US?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

1. Dilapidate southern states by inundating them with illegals, through a sieve of a border
3. Force all the high-paying American jobs northward into anti-gun liberal states

I approve.

[Benuty]

1. Dilapidate southern states by inundating them with illegals, through a sieve of a border
3. Force all the high-paying American jobs northward into anti-gun liberal states

I approve.

No let the rustbelt fester like the quarantine zone it is .

[Blakk Metal]

The Roman Empire was dysgenic.

Europe is "dysgenic".

Only the Irish and the Portuguese are minimally unmixed with the groups that have their origin in the Italo-Balkan and Caucasian Ice Age refugees.

Blue eyes and fair hair are a mutation from 6000 years ago, the first from the Balkans and later from the northern coast of the Baltic Sea. Look at how fucking pervasive they are in this minimal amount of time. In a continent with genetically established population groups since 40.000 years ago.

I'm not talking about non-European migration, I'm talking about the effects of Roman policies.

It does. The richest countries in Europe and the richest regions of the US are Germanic.

Richest regions of the US?

The poorest part of the US, the South, is dominated by blacks and Britons, which are predominantly Celtic. The white population of the rest of the US has more people of Continental Northwestern European ancestry.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I'm not talking about non-European migration, I'm talking about the effects of Roman policies.

Pan-continental European x European admixture always happened, will continue to happen.

[Persivis]

I do like how the US gets a lot of hate for how it treats immigrants, when it is a lot better in that department than Europe/Canada.

[Freiheit Reich]

They're still children in the country. Children can't be treated in the exact same way adults are.

Sure. Feed them, clothe them, give them medical attention, then fly them home.

Don't even fly them home unless they can pay for it. Place them across the border and let Mexico pay to transport them home. After all, Mexico allowed them to cross through their huge country to reach the USA.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sure. Feed them, clothe them, give them medical attention, then fly them home.

Don't even fly them home unless they can pay for it. Place them across the border and let Mexico pay to transport them home. After all, Mexico allowed them to cross through their huge country to reach the USA.

Well in that case let's also do the same for our citizens, shall we? Let's not give them food and let the homeless starve. After all, they're homeless, what do they need my tax dollars for? To eat? They should have gotten a job.

[Persivis]

Don't even fly them home unless they can pay for it. Place them across the border and let Mexico pay to transport them home. After all, Mexico allowed them to cross through their huge country to reach the USA.

Well in that case let's also do the same for our citizens, shall we? Let's not give them food and let the homeless starve. After all, they're homeless, why do they need my tax dollars for?

Just a curiosity here:

Should we just let in whoever? I am not really anti-immigration but some of the arguments here make it seem we should just let everyone in. That would really strain the infrastructure.

[Freiheit Reich]

Don't even fly them home unless they can pay for it. Place them across the border and let Mexico pay to transport them home. After all, Mexico allowed them to cross through their huge country to reach the USA.

Well in that case let's also do the same for our citizens, shall we? Let's not give them food and let the homeless starve. After all, they're homeless, what do they need my tax dollars for? To eat? They should have gotten a job.

I agree, we should cut off welfare. Many private charities will help the homeless. We should also stop arresting people for feeding the homeless so if they want to help, they can.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well in that case let's also do the same for our citizens, shall we? Let's not give them food and let the homeless starve. After all, they're homeless, why do they need my tax dollars for?

Just a curiosity here:

Should we just let in whoever? I am not really anti-immigration but some of the arguments here make it seem we should just let everyone in. That would really strain the infrastructure.

OH NO!

I'm pro immigration reform, but I don't think open borders is a good idea. In fact, most serious proponents out of NS don't even think this is a good idea. We do think that the immigration system could be simplified and less broken than what it actually is (I mean, more than a decade for a visa in average? Really?), but so far as to go for open borders? No, nobody is seriously thinking open borders is a really good idea, mostly because U.S. culture and Mexico culture are different. It's like staring at a warzone right in your backyard. If Mexico didn't have the drug lords then perhaps we could look into open flow of people from the U.S. into Mexico and vice-versa, but as it is it's just a bad idea.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well in that case let's also do the same for our citizens, shall we? Let's not give them food and let the homeless starve. After all, they're homeless, what do they need my tax dollars for? To eat? They should have gotten a job.

I agree, we should cut off welfare. Many private charities will help the homeless. We should also stop arresting people for feeding the homeless so if they want to help, they can.

Also, why don't we arrest people who employ homeless people? After all, homeless people don't need jobs, they're all lazy.

[Persivis]

Just a curiosity here:

Should we just let in whoever? I am not really anti-immigration but some of the arguments here make it seem we should just let everyone in. That would really strain the infrastructure.

OH NO!

I'm pro immigration reform, but I don't think open borders is a good idea. In fact, most serious proponents out of NS don't even think this is a good idea. We do think that the immigration system could be simplified and less broken than what it actually is (I mean, more than a decade for a visa in average? Really?), but so far as to go for open borders? No, nobody is seriously thinking open borders is a really good idea, mostly because U.S. culture and Mexico culture are different. It's like staring at a warzone right in your backyard. If Mexico didn't have the drug lords then perhaps we could look into open flow of people from the U.S. into Mexico and vice-versa, but as it is it's just a bad idea.

"Pro immigration reform"

Exactly what do you mean by that? Sure there are some obvious changes that should happen, but exactly what else do you propose? Anything that wouldn't result in massive numbers of immigrants that would still break the infrastructure is going to be denounced as racist.

Further, since most of the same arguments just believe in naturalizing illegal immigrants, what exactly would encourage illegal immigrants to follow the new laws if crossing the border takes less time? After all, we can all agree most of these people are fleeing chaos. So, that want whatever takes less time.

[Freiheit Reich]

I agree, we should cut off welfare. Many private charities will help the homeless. We should also stop arresting people for feeding the homeless so if they want to help, they can.

Also, why don't we arrest people who employ homeless people? After all, homeless people don't need jobs, they're all lazy.

If they were lazy, they wouldn't look for a job. Not all of them are lazy, just many of them.

[Persivis]

Also, why don't we arrest people who employ homeless people? After all, homeless people don't need jobs, they're all lazy.

If they were lazy, they wouldn't look for a job. Not all of them are lazy, just many of them.

I am pretty sure most people wouldn't want face starvation daily because they are lazy.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

"Pro immigration reform"

Exactly what do you mean by that? Sure there are some obvious changes that should happen, but exactly what else do you propose? Anything that wouldn't result in massive numbers of immigrants that would still break the infrastructure is going to be denounced as racist.

Further, since most of the same arguments just believe in naturalizing illegal immigrants, what exactly would encourage illegal immigrants to follow the new laws if crossing the border takes less time? After all, we can all agree most of these people are fleeing chaos. So, that want whatever takes less time.

My point of view is:

1. Provide immigrants who are here already and have a history of being in the U.S. at least for about 5 or more years a path to at least Permanent Residency. My idea has been get them a special permit that allows them to work in the U.S while they apply for Permanent Residency like everyone else. I don't agree with giving them citizenship automatically though.

2. Simplify the residency visa process. I mean really, it's so complex people can't file papers without spending thousands of dollars in a lawyer, and even then it takes over a decade on average. I'd also go as far as to say increase the quotas or abolish them altogether. The number of visas processed every year are pathetically low in each category.

3. Strengthen the borders with more men and spend more resources in defending the border and in our ICE than what we spend in the military. If we want to use the military as a force in the border we need to then train the military to be border patrol officers and not kill people.

4. Impose laws that penalize business owners who hire illegal immigrants after these measures go in place. The reason why illegal immigrants come is because of jobs. Penalize the business owners by making them pay for each illegal immigrant's insurance and whatnot plus impose a heavy fine on the business as comeuppance, you'll see businesses refusing to hire illegal immigrants quick. I don't think penalizing them now is a good idea, but certainly after we have resolved what to do with the existing immigrant population.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Also, why don't we arrest people who employ homeless people? After all, homeless people don't need jobs, they're all lazy.

If they were lazy, they wouldn't look for a job. Not all of them are lazy, just many of them.

Nah, let's just refuse altogether. Why should they be in my business asking for a job when they're homeless?

[The New Sea Territory]

There is nothing wrong with crossing a nonexistent line that is forced onto people by a regional monopoly of violence.

[Persivis]

My point of view is:

1. Provide immigrants who are here already and have a history of being in the U.S. at least for about 5 or more years a path to at least Permanent Residency. My idea has been get them a special permit that allows them to work in the U.S while they apply for Permanent Residency like everyone else. I don't agree with giving them citizenship automatically though.

You see though, this is just going to encourage the same illegal immigration. Unless they can become citizens quickly they are going to cross the border.

2. Simplify the residency visa process. I mean really, it's so complex people can't file papers without spending thousands of dollars in a lawyer, and even then it takes over a decade on average. I'd also go as far as to say increase the quotas or abolish them altogether. The number of visas processed every year are pathetically low in each category.

We aren't abolish quotas, because that would be equivalent to saying we will let in everyone that isn't a felon. I like having lots of immigrants come to the country but there should be some stringent qualifiers.

3. Strengthen the borders with more men and spend more resources in defending the border and in our ICE than what we spend in the military. If we want to use the military as a force in the border we need to then train the military to be border patrol officers and not kill people.

I am pretty sure border defense does not need the same budget as the military. Honestly, why not use military members withdrawing from the middle east to increase manpower? Just tell them not to use the heavy stuff, or just keep them from having it while they are guarding the border altogether.

4

. Impose laws that penalize business owners who hire illegal immigrants after these measures go in place. The reason why illegal immigrants come is because of jobs. Penalize the business owners by making them pay for each illegal immigrant's insurance and whatnot plus impose a heavy fine on the business as comeuppance, you'll see businesses refusing to hire illegal immigrants quick. I don't think penalizing them now is a good idea, but certainly after we have resolved what to do with the existing immigrant population.

Some immigrants come because of jobs. Alot of people are fleeing Mexico because its a hellhole.

[Persivis]

There is nothing wrong with crossing a nonexistent line that is forced onto people by a regional monopoly of violence.

Yes yes. We all wish to live in a perfect world.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

My point of view is:

1. Provide immigrants who are here already and have a history of being in the U.S. at least for about 5 or more years a path to at least Permanent Residency. My idea has been get them a special permit that allows them to work in the U.S while they apply for Permanent Residency like everyone else. I don't agree with giving them citizenship automatically though.

You see though, this is just going to encourage the same illegal immigration. Unless they can become citizens quickly they are going to cross the border.

2. Simplify the residency visa process. I mean really, it's so complex people can't file papers without spending thousands of dollars in a lawyer, and even then it takes over a decade on average. I'd also go as far as to say increase the quotas or abolish them altogether. The number of visas processed every year are pathetically low in each category.

We aren't abolish quotas, because that would be equivalent to saying we will let in everyone that isn't a felon. I like having lots of immigrants come to the country but there should be some stringent qualifiers.

3. Strengthen the borders with more men and spend more resources in defending the border and in our ICE than what we spend in the military. If we want to use the military as a force in the border we need to then train the military to be border patrol officers and not kill people.

I am pretty sure border defense does not need the same budget as the military. Honestly, why not use military members withdrawing from the middle east to increase manpower? Just tell them not to use the heavy stuff, or just keep them from having it while they are guarding the border altogether.

4

. Impose laws that penalize business owners who hire illegal immigrants after these measures go in place. The reason why illegal immigrants come is because of jobs. Penalize the business owners by making them pay for each illegal immigrant's insurance and whatnot plus impose a heavy fine on the business as comeuppance, you'll see businesses refusing to hire illegal immigrants quick. I don't think penalizing them now is a good idea, but certainly after we have resolved what to do with the existing immigrant population.

Some immigrants come because of jobs. Alot of people are fleeing Mexico because its a hellhole.

You may be right about point one, but the other thing is that we also need to find something to do with the existing immigrant population. That's my best solution to the whole "deport or amnesty" problem.

Quotas are not what you think they are. Quotas are arbitrary numbers. I agree with having standards and qualifiers on who comes in and comes out, but quotas all they do is limit the number of visas based on those qualifications.

That sounds like a good idea, yes.

When it comes to the international problem abating both Central America and Mexico we need to work with the governments of those nations to crack down on crime down their countries. It doesn't make sense we have issues in our own backyard which are giving people a headache to solve and when someone proposes "oh let's help the people down there to fight their issues!" you meet the response of "let them do it themselves!" and we don't mind going to war for "freedom".

[Arkinesia]

Just a curiosity here:

Should we just let in whoever? I am not really anti-immigration but some of the arguments here make it seem we should just let everyone in. That would really strain the infrastructure.

OH NO!

I'm pro immigration reform, but I don't think open borders is a good idea. In fact, most serious proponents out of NS don't even think this is a good idea. We do think that the immigration system could be simplified and less broken than what it actually is (I mean, more than a decade for a visa in average? Really?), but so far as to go for open borders? No, nobody is seriously thinking open borders is a really good idea, mostly because U.S. culture and Mexico culture are different. It's like staring at a warzone right in your backyard. If Mexico didn't have the drug lords then perhaps we could look into open flow of people from the U.S. into Mexico and vice-versa, but as it is it's just a bad idea.

Open borders != no passport checks, no ID checks, etc.

Open borders allows for checking of identification, border checkpoints, etc. but doesn't allow for work permits, visas, and other restrictive bullshit.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

OH NO!

I'm pro immigration reform, but I don't think open borders is a good idea. In fact, most serious proponents out of NS don't even think this is a good idea. We do think that the immigration system could be simplified and less broken than what it actually is (I mean, more than a decade for a visa in average? Really?), but so far as to go for open borders? No, nobody is seriously thinking open borders is a really good idea, mostly because U.S. culture and Mexico culture are different. It's like staring at a warzone right in your backyard. If Mexico didn't have the drug lords then perhaps we could look into open flow of people from the U.S. into Mexico and vice-versa, but as it is it's just a bad idea.

Open borders != no passport checks, no ID checks, etc.

Open borders allows for checking of identification, border checkpoints, etc. but doesn't allow for work permits, visas, and other restrictive bullshit.

I'd get behind such an idea if the security measures to enter into the country were heightened, there were more checkpoints across the borders, and there was tighter security where there are no checkpoints to prevent people from trying to get across without going to a checkpoint.

[The Orson Empire]

There is nothing wrong with crossing a nonexistent line that is forced onto people by a regional monopoly of violence.

What world do you live in? A fantasy one?

[Nansurium]

These children should be classified as political refugees and permitted to stay.