Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[Rio Cana]

Canada would work. They could show the USA how compassionate they are by offering to take all illegal immigrants from the USA. We could put them on freight cars and send them to the border. We ask Canada's permission which they would have to give if they want to show their moral superiority to the evil USA (as many countries think of the USA).

The point I made about Mongolia was the fact that the USA is much more crowded than that nation. Nobody is asking them to take in millions of refugees but the USA is asked to do it again and again. The USA has over 300 million people and that number is fast growing. We are not the same nation we were when the Statue of Liberty was installed, we have plenty of people and we can now be picky about whom to accept..

A better idea would be shipping them to Iraq or Afghanistan. Those nations owe us big time for the billions we spent to rebuild their nations. We dump the immigrants there and they can find their own way back if they dislike it. If we do this a few times, it will scare most of the rest from trying to illegally enter the USA. Even better, we wouldn't look that bad vs. another popular idea which is to shoot anybody illegally crossing (also effective but controversial).

Yea, let's defenestrate everyone who dared come to the U.S and extort them to pay us a million dollars or we kill them at gunpoint. What could possibly do wrong?

Seems someone wants the US full of rich drug dealers, crooked financiers and other gangster types.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yea, that'd solve an economic crisis. We should also do away with those pesky Geneva conventions And labor laws and child labor laws, so inconvenient aren't they?

I am against most child labor laws and the USA needs to get out of NATO and the UN and follow its own path.

Maybe the illegal immigrants could be useful. If we can find a profitable use for them than maybe they could be welcomed. You forget, the USA has a huge national debt, we can't afford to be generous to anybody right now until the debt is paid off.

Oh yea, because the debt matters. I forgot I'm in no way a historian and never took an economics class which obviously says that debt is what is important. I totally get it now.

[Blakk Metal]

Canada would work. They could show the USA how compassionate they are by offering to take all illegal immigrants from the USA. We could put them on freight cars and send them to the border. We ask Canada's permission which they would have to give if they want to show their moral superiority to the evil USA (as many countries think of the USA).

The point I made about Mongolia was the fact that the USA is much more crowded than that nation. Nobody is asking them to take in millions of refugees but the USA is asked to do it again and again. The USA has over 300 million people and that number is fast growing. We are not the same nation we were when the Statue of Liberty was installed, we have plenty of people and we can now be picky about whom to accept..

A better idea would be shipping them to Iraq or Afghanistan. Those nations owe us big time for the billions we spent to rebuild their nations. We dump the immigrants there and they can find their own way back if they dislike it. If we do this a few times, it will scare most of the rest from trying to illegally enter the USA. Even better, we wouldn't look that bad vs. another popular idea which is to shoot anybody illegally crossing (also effective but controversial).

Having said that the US owes those nations big time. After all, the people there never asked to be exploited by that US Banana company. They also did not ask for the US to interfere in there internal matters. El Salvador is one of the nations the kids are coming from. El Salvador on the insistence of the US even sent troops to Iraq.

Short video on the troops they sent to Iraq. They were involved there from 2003 to 2009.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=947_1237560470

if United Fruit is their problem, why didn't southern immigration get extreme until long after United Fruit mattered, especially consider they weren't banned from the US until 1965?

Do you mean ignorant as stupid, or ignorant as politically correct. If it is the former, explain how, if it is the latter, nobody cares.

Why can't Mexico help these poor Central American refugees out? They have a very similar culture (same language, religion) and Mexico is much closer. Why isn't the world asking Mexico, wealthier than the majority of nations in the world, to help out? Mexico is a nation of immigrants also.

Okay.. first off, Mexico isn't a nation of immigrants, and if I'm mistaken, I'd like some proof showing that mexico is a nation of immigrants on level with the US, because that's what you're getting at.

Most of the people in Mexico are descended from white and black people, not Native Americans.

Mexico is doing what it can to solvent their own set of issues, which includes immigration. It's not sitting by idly, and claiming such a thing is stupid.

It's doing whatever can to make sure it doesn't have any illegal immigrants.

The USA is always asked to bear the burden. The world knows the USA is a sucker and now expects us to bend over backwards yet again to save the world while destroying the nation.

¬¬

The rest is irrelevant and serves in showing the level of ignorance the poster can reach.

Ask I again, do you mean ignorant as in stupid or politically correct?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yea, let's defenestrate everyone who dared come to the U.S and extort them to pay us a million dollars or we kill them at gunpoint. What could possibly do wrong?

Seems someone wants the US full of rich drug dealers, crooked financiers and other gangster types.

I'm sure nobody wants that, but you know, can't trollname

[Soldati Senza Confini]

[Redacted ]

[Avenio]

The train cars are an attempt to ship large numbers of people at the cheapest way possible.

Yes, we wouldn't want to spend too much money moving the südarbeitern around, would we?

I just wonder how Canada would feel about getting millions of poor and uneducated immigrants from nations with high crime rates? Many of Canada's immigrants are wealthy Chinese (the kind the US needs over poor Central Americans).

How many illegal immigrants come into Canada vs. the USA? Illegals vs. legal immigrants is the important issue here.

Most of our illegal immigrants are Americans who crossed the border and overstayed their travel visas. Many have comparatively little in the way of employable skills, and they have difficulty paying taxes and chipping in to our healthcare system due to their citizenship status.

I think that the best option for them would be to strip them of all fungible assets and have them walk at gunpoint north to the oil fields, where they can be worked to death doing the jobs Canadians don't want to do. Especially considering the flood of arms and drugs that cross the border into our fair country from the desolate, war-torn wasteland that is the United States, it's doubly important that we control the tide of American illegals trying to destroy our great nation.

[Kelinfort]

Too many see these immigrants as a liability. They're actually a very good way to bolster population and continue to fund programs like social security in the future. By accepting more immigrants and training them to do social analytical work while their parents work menial labour, we can guarantee our revenue and population increase, along with GDP, even as our home population's fertility rate declines.

[Freiheit Reich]

Do you mean ignorant as stupid, or ignorant as politically correct. If it is the former, explain how, if it is the latter, nobody cares.

Why can't Mexico help these poor Central American refugees out? They have a very similar culture (same language, religion) and Mexico is much closer. Why isn't the world asking Mexico, wealthier than the majority of nations in the world, to help out? Mexico is a nation of immigrants also.

Okay.. first off, Mexico isn't a nation of immigrants, and if I'm mistaken, I'd like some proof showing that mexico is a nation of immigrants on level with the US, because that's what you're getting at.

Mexico is doing what it can to solvent their own set of issues, which includes immigration. It's not sitting by idly, and claiming such a thing is stupid.

The USA is always asked to bear the burden. The world knows the USA is a sucker and now expects us to bend over backwards yet again to save the world while destroying the nation.

¬¬

The rest is irrelevant and serves in showing the level of ignorance the poster can reach.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/mx.html

mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Okay.. first off, Mexico isn't a nation of immigrants, and if I'm mistaken, I'd like some proof showing that mexico is a nation of immigrants on level with the US, because that's what you're getting at.

Mexico is doing what it can to solvent their own set of issues, which includes immigration. It's not sitting by idly, and claiming such a thing is stupid.



¬¬

The rest is irrelevant and serves in showing the level of ignorance the poster can reach.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/mx.html

mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%

The US is also a nation of immigrants, but we should conveniently ignore that for the sake of our argument now should we?

[Blakk Metal]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/mx.html

mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%

The US is also a nation of immigrants, but we should conveniently ignore that for the sake of our argument now should we?

You apparently cannot into context. The whole issue started with this suggestion:

Why can't Mexico help these poor Central American refugees out? They have a very similar culture (same language, religion) and Mexico is much closer. Why isn't the world asking Mexico, wealthier than the majority of nations in the world, to help out? Mexico is a nation of immigrants also.

[Freiheit Reich]

Too many see these immigrants as a liability. They're actually a very good way to bolster population and continue to fund programs like social security in the future. By accepting more immigrants and training them to do social analytical work while their parents work menial labour, we can guarantee our revenue and population increase, along with GDP, even as our home population's fertility rate declines.

Population growth is not the great thing people think it is. This website explains more:

http://www.populationconnection.org/sit ... ssues_main

Yemen, Afghanistan, and several African nations have high population growth rates and are far from prosperous. Look at the red nations vs. blue nations (low growth). Which nations are wealthier on average?

http://www.populationconnection.org/site/PageServer

[Kelinfort]

Too many see these immigrants as a liability. They're actually a very good way to bolster population and continue to fund programs like social security in the future. By accepting more immigrants and training them to do social analytical work while their parents work menial labour, we can guarantee our revenue and population increase, along with GDP, even as our home population's fertility rate declines.

Population growth is not the great thing people think it is. This website explains more:

http://www.populationconnection.org/sit ... ssues_main

Yemen, Afghanistan, and several African nations have high population growth rates and are far from prosperous. Look at the red nations vs. blue nations (low growth). Which nations are wealthier on average?

http://www.populationconnection.org/site/PageServer

You're drawing the wrong conclusion. Look at Europe and Japan, facing negative fertility rates. A negative fertility rate inflicts economic damage and can leave a nation devoid of young workers. It is happening in Japan, where more young workers are required to pay for the elderly population. The US's fertility rate is shrinking rapidly too, but these immigrants can help stabilise the trend and keep the cost ratio in check.

[Rio Cana]

if United Fruit is their problem, why didn't southern immigration get extreme until long after United Fruit mattered, especially consider they weren't banned from the US until 1965?

Since that time there population has increased while the possibility of work has not kept up.

[Blakk Metal]

Since that time there population has increased while the possibility of work has not kept up.

Are you saying that we should Liberate™ Central America and enrich it with it with Capitalism™?

[Libertarian California]

>Bring America to them is imperialism
>Bring their country to America is not

Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

Allowing people to come to our nation of their own free will is not imperialism.

America imposing its culture and society on other sovereign nations is imperialism.

This is not a complicated concept.

Ever hear of cultural imperialism? Maybe you don't live in a Southwest state, but Mexican cultural influence here is quite overreaching.

[Kelinfort]

Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

Allowing people to come to our nation of their own free will is not imperialism.

America imposing its culture and society on other sovereign nations is imperialism.

This is not a complicated concept.

Ever hear of cultural imperialism? Maybe you don't live in a Southwest state, but Mexican cultural influence here is quite overreaching.

I wouldn't call that cultural imperialism, mainly because it was Mexican before the US gained it from cession.

[The 502nd SS]

Since that time there population has increased while the possibility of work has not kept up.

Are you saying that we should Liberate™ Central America and enrich it with it with Capitalism™?

No we should drop freedom on their cities

[Libertarian California]

Believing that backwards, violent peoples can become law-abiding, picket-fence building Americans is idealistic, and foolish. It really isn't about fighting oppression.

Implying that all illegal immigrants are backward and violent people.

And you wonder why people label opponents of immigration as racists.

You say the word racist like it's supposed to validate anything.

This country does have an ethnic identity that rather specifically outlined in the 1790 Naturalization Act. Unfortunately, certain elements have attempted to destroy this.

And many of those aesthetics are truly awful.

Firstly, no. It did nothing to establish an ethnic identity, the 1795 Naturalization Act did nothing more than lay down a legal definition for citizenship. Secondly, if you really want your point to be taken seriously, you shouldn't be basing it upon a document that excluded everyone who was not white from the benefits of citizenship.

Lastly, you can say that the aesthetics are awful, but your assertion has little to no meaning without any elaboration.

It actually did establish one because it clearly outlined who could be an American. It was specifically aimed at one race of people. Hence it's ethnic.

Do I really need to explain how the aesthetics of Mexico are pretty bad?

[Libertarian California]

Ever hear of cultural imperialism? Maybe you don't live in a Southwest state, but Mexican cultural influence here is quite overreaching.

I wouldn't call that cultural imperialism, mainly because it was Mexican before the US gained it from cession.

Hardly, because the vast majority of Mexicans there arrived in 20th century.

[Libertarian California]

Because basing policy on a French statue is an astute idea.

Are you kidding me....

do you not know your history? That inscription isn't French

As if that makes the slightest difference in the absurdity of basing policy on a plaque.

[Kelinfort]

Implying that all illegal immigrants are backward and violent people.

And you wonder why people label opponents of immigration as racists.

1.You say the word racist like it's supposed to validate anything.

Firstly, no. It did nothing to establish an ethnic identity, the 1795 Naturalization Act did nothing more than lay down a legal definition for citizenship. Secondly, if you really want your point to be taken seriously, you shouldn't be basing it upon a document that excluded everyone who was not white from the benefits of citizenship.

Lastly, you can say that the aesthetics are awful, but your assertion has little to no meaning without any elaboration.

2.It actually did establish one because it clearly outlined who could be an American. It was specifically aimed at one race of people. Hence it's ethnic.

Do I really need to explain how the aesthetics of Mexico are pretty bad?

1. You can only interpret "violent, backward" people in one way.

2. Yeah, but guess what, 1795 wasn't exactly a watershed year for race relations.
Please explain the aesthetic part.

[Blakk Metal]

Are you saying that we should Liberate™ Central America and enrich it with it with Capitalism™?

No we should drop freedom on their cities

FIREBOMB MEXICO LEGALIZE NUCLEAR WEAPONS PACIFISM IS THEFT CURTIS LEMAY 2014

[Libertarian California]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/mx.html

mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%

The US is also a nation of immigrants, but we should conveniently ignore that for the sake of our argument now should we?

Technically no. It was founded by colonists who were by and large born in the colonies, and the immigrants that came later were of a very specific variety.

[Kelinfort]

I wouldn't call that cultural imperialism, mainly because it was Mexican before the US gained it from cession.

Hardly, because the vast majority of Mexicans there arrived in 20th century.

But the tradition from the Spanish predates any American development by hundreds of years.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Hardly, because the vast majority of Mexicans there arrived in 20th century.

But the tradition from the Spanish predates any American development by hundreds of years.

It was hardly a 'tradition'. Spanish/Mexican influence in the modern Southwestern US consisted of a handful of churches.