Compulsory voting: yes or no?

[Kinitaria]

So... do I have to vote in this poll?

[The Serbian Empire]

FYI, most places that have compulsory voting include a "none of the above" option in order to allow people to register a protest if they hate all the candidates.

But yes, of course voting should be compulsory. It's not only a right, it is also a duty.

And, as civic duties go, it's a pretty easy one too - it takes, what, a few hours of your life every few years? I don't understand what anyone here is complaining about. Making voting compulsory has literally no downsides.

(and no, "I really needed that half an hour for something else!" doesn't count as a downside)

Voting is a dangerous activity with serious risks. The chances of a vote to improve the election is smaller than the risk of dying in a car crash on the way to the ballot office.

It does count. Watching the state's actions is a waste of time. The last time there was an election over here many people I know needed to study for an entrance examination.

That is true. The politicians tend to only make things worse.

Hell no, it will hurt the poor and people who are apathetic due to the duopoly of power. If we did something about the duopoly by changing the system then it's a maybe.

Which is why there's often an "abstain" choice. Also, more than 2 parties.

You can't scrap the first past the post system due to how the political parties in power benefit from it.

[Magna Libero]

Making voting compulsory is basically a dictatorship.

So you think Australia is a dictatorship? And Belgium, too?

Sure, but they are all disguised as a democracy. Australia, for example, is very restrictive on things such as immigration.

[Atlanticatia]

So you think Australia is a dictatorship? And Belgium, too?

They are certainly tyrannical. Do you think they are better run than other countries that don't have compulsory voting? As I mentioned I don't vote, I don't care, my vote is worthless. If forced to vote I will try to take any bribe I can to vote a certain way since I really don't give a damn. If I get a dollar, that is fine, if someone is willing to pay me $10 or $20 that is great. Any rate will do since I have to do it anyway, it is like someone offering to pay you to stop at a stop sign.

I invite you to investigate the situation of mass bribery and corruption in the Australian electoral system that is going on to make apathetic people vote for a certain based on monetary rewards. Please, back up your assumption.

[Constantinopolis]

I find it fascinating how many threads on this forum basically go like this:

OP: "Should people be required to..."
Swarm of responses: "No no no NO NO NOOOO!!! Fascist! Dictatorship! Slavery! NEVERRR!!!!"

[SaintB]

right so:
if voting is optional, the lazy people of today won't vote... leaving the ballots full of votes from old conservatives and idiots who don't know anything about politics.

now, if voting is mandatory, everyone votes. not just the elderly conservatives who are too dense to know better and their family has been voting conservative for the last 2342342 years. EVERYONE. That includes all of these liberal hippies who, with optional voting, would be too lazy to vote.

most of the people in my year of school are left-minded, very few conservatives.
they can't vote yet, and when they can, they probably won't.


the key to democracy is participation in the system.

Do you support ending the disenfranchisement of felons?

It's not directed to me but I do.

[Britanno]

Your OP swung me a bit, but I don't think that compulsory voting is a good idea. People need educating in politics and to feel more involved, not to be told that you have to pick these people. Compulsory voting will just end with people voting for who they think has a cooler moustache.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

FYI, most places that have compulsory voting include a "none of the above" option in order to allow people to register a protest if they hate all the candidates.

But yes, of course voting should be compulsory. It's not only a right, it is also a duty.

And, as civic duties go, it's a pretty easy one too - it takes, what, a few hours of your life every few years? I don't understand what anyone here is complaining about. Making voting compulsory has literally no downsides.

(and no, "I really needed that half an hour for something else!" doesn't count as a downside)

It wastes a few hours of my time, that is a big enough penalty. Can I renounce my citizenship while still living in the country so I don't have to vote? Will that also absolve me of having to go to jury duty? Can I no longer be drafted too? If one or more of the former were true I would give up my citizenship in an instant, there would be literally zero downsides to it.

[Imperializt Russia]

Forcing people to vote is completely anti-democratic.

It absolutely is not.
One could make the argument that it's illiberal. But not "undemocratic".

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

They are certainly tyrannical. Do you think they are better run than other countries that don't have compulsory voting? As I mentioned I don't vote, I don't care, my vote is worthless. If forced to vote I will try to take any bribe I can to vote a certain way since I really don't give a damn. If I get a dollar, that is fine, if someone is willing to pay me $10 or $20 that is great. Any rate will do since I have to do it anyway, it is like someone offering to pay you to stop at a stop sign.

I invite you to investigate the situation of mass bribery and corruption in the Australian electoral system that is going on to make apathetic people vote for a certain based on monetary rewards. Please, back up your assumption.

Who says it would be a widespread problem? I said I personally would do it. The point is that the people you are forcing to vote aren't good voters, they are uninformed and apathetic people. Informed people who care about politics would vote anyway.

[The Serbian Empire]

They are certainly tyrannical. Do you think they are better run than other countries that don't have compulsory voting? As I mentioned I don't vote, I don't care, my vote is worthless. If forced to vote I will try to take any bribe I can to vote a certain way since I really don't give a damn. If I get a dollar, that is fine, if someone is willing to pay me $10 or $20 that is great. Any rate will do since I have to do it anyway, it is like someone offering to pay you to stop at a stop sign.

I invite you to investigate the situation of mass bribery and corruption in the Australian electoral system that is going on to make apathetic people vote for a certain based on monetary rewards. Please, back up your assumption.

Trust me, they don't get paid for the votes. However, they will vote for the first party or candidate on the top of the ballot in alphabetical order out of lack of information.

[Constantinopolis]

Honestly do you think someone forced to vote will suddenly research issues and politicians and make and informed decision or do you think they will just pull the lever of the group they think benefits them more?

People voting for the group that benefits them more is precisely how democracy is supposed to work. If everyone does that, then the group that benefits the majority will win.

It wastes a few hours of my time, that is a big enough penalty. Can I renounce my citizenship while still living in the country so I don't have to vote? Will that also absolve me of having to go to jury duty? Can I no longer be drafted too? If one or more of the former were true I would give up my citizenship in an instant, there would be literally zero downsides to it.

...until you need a passport to travel to another country.

[Scomagia]

Do you support ending the disenfranchisement of felons?

It's not directed to me but I do.

I'm not surprised. You and I are typically in agreement. Still, I'm amazed how many people just ignore the fact that several million people have had their voting rights stripped.

[Imperializt Russia]

It wastes a few hours of my time, that is a big enough penalty.

Hours?

Either find a less-travelled voting station or America needs smaller voting areas. My parents drove me three hundred yards down the road to one of our local pubs and we were in and out to vote within all of two minutes for the EU/local elections last month.

[The Serbian Empire]

I find it fascinating how many threads on this forum basically go like this:

OP: "Should people be required to..."
Swarm of responses: "No no no NO NO NOOOO!!! Fascist! Dictatorship! Slavery! NEVERRR!!!!"

You should have expected that given how the US election system works. Forcing uninformed voters who had no intention to vote isn't going to be good as they will just vote in the most irrational ways just to avoid the fine.

[The Orson Empire]

Compulsory voting is not democracy, and I doubt it would be effective. People should not be forced to vote.

[The Serbian Empire]

Honestly do you think someone forced to vote will suddenly research issues and politicians and make and informed decision or do you think they will just pull the lever of the group they think benefits them more?

People voting for the group that benefits them more is precisely how democracy is supposed to work. If everyone does that, then the group that benefits the majority will win.

Except that people who are low-information voters tended to favor who was alphabetically first in the order which depending on the ballot may be a political party or worse yet, a candidate like George W. Bush. They aren't voting for who is giving them the most benefits as much as just who is on the top of the page.

[Atlanticatia]

I invite you to investigate the situation of mass bribery and corruption in the Australian electoral system that is going on to make apathetic people vote for a certain based on monetary rewards. Please, back up your assumption.

Who says it would be a widespread problem? I said I personally would do it. The point is that the people you are forcing to vote aren't good voters, they are uninformed and apathetic people. Informed people who care about politics would vote anyway.

Okay, good for you? I could bribe you right now to vote for a certain candidate. It would have nothing to do with compulsory voting.

Please tell me how people who voted for Todd Akin, who says "legitimate rape doesn't produce a pregnancy" are informed.

Also, please tell me how people who vote for someone who denies climate change is informed.

Humor me.

[Constantinopolis]

Forcing uninformed voters who had no intention to vote isn't going to be good as they will just vote in the most irrational ways just to avoid the fine.

Statistically speaking, if they vote at random, then they won't have any impact on the result at all (if you get a large group of people to vote at random, then their votes will be distributed equally between the various options, so they won't make a difference for the result).

So no, you don't have anything to worry about from "irrational voting".

Except that people who are low-information voters tended to favor who was alphabetically first in the order which depending on the ballot may be a political party or worse yet, a candidate like George W. Bush. They aren't voting for who is giving them the most benefits as much as just who is on the top of the page.

In that case they will statistically vote for a Democrat 50% of the time and for a Republican the other 50% of the time. Thus, no impact.

Irrational voting has no impact on the result, because it benefits all sides equally.

[Atlanticatia]

It's not directed to me but I do.

I'm not surprised. You and I are typically in agreement. Still, I'm amazed how many people just ignore the fact that several million people have had their voting rights stripped.

I agree with this. People who are felons should not lose their voting rights. Also, it disproportionately affects people of color.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Honestly do you think someone forced to vote will suddenly research issues and politicians and make and informed decision or do you think they will just pull the lever of the group they think benefits them more?

People voting for the group that benefits them more is precisely how democracy is supposed to work. If everyone does that, then the group that benefits the majority will win.

Except they do zero research so they vote based on uniformed opinions. Should I vote Democrat or Republican? Well (insert biased news station here) always mentions how (insert party here) hates me because (insert asinine reason here) so I guess I will vote for (insert opposite party here). They aren't reading the news regularly to find out detailed policies, they absorb their knowledge via osmosis and vote based on stuff like "Democrats are waging a war on Christmas" or "Republicans hate women." They aren't voting based on which party supports them (ignoring the idea that simply voting for benefits is retarded enough) because they don't know which party supports them. Does a Christian woman who benefits from Obamacare but listens to Fox News necessarily understand what Obamacare actually is? No. If she hears that Democrats wage a war on Christmas and support abortion she will probably vote Republican whether it is in her best interests or not.

...until you need a passport to travel to another country.

Well I will probably never get a job offer from another country, the only language I speak is English and America has diverse enough landscapes that I have no need to go to other countries for vacation. Is this a thing I can actually do? If so what are the benefits and what do I have to do?

[The Serbian Empire]

Forcing uninformed voters who had no intention to vote isn't going to be good as they will just vote in the most irrational ways just to avoid the fine.

Statistically speaking, if they vote at random, then they won't have any impact on the result at all (if you get a large group of people to vote at random, then their votes will be distributed equally between the various options, so they won't make a difference for the result).

So no, you don't have anything to worry about from "irrational voting".

They aren't voting as much at random as voting for reasons that wouldn't benefit them. It's a good 10% of voters who will do this.

[The Scientific States]

No. If someone doesn't want to vote, they should have the option not to.

[Atlanticatia]

I find it fascinating how many threads on this forum basically go like this:

OP: "Should people be required to..."
Swarm of responses: "No no no NO NO NOOOO!!! Fascist! Dictatorship! Slavery! NEVERRR!!!!"

You should have expected that given how the US election system works. Forcing uninformed voters who had no intention to vote isn't going to be good as they will just vote in the most irrational ways just to avoid the fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... 13#Results

Where are the insane and irrational political parties that were elected in Australia as a result of compulsory voting?

[The Scientific States]

You should have expected that given how the US election system works. Forcing uninformed voters who had no intention to vote isn't going to be good as they will just vote in the most irrational ways just to avoid the fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... 13#Results

Where are the insane and irrational political parties that were elected in Australia as a result of compulsory voting?

Abott won the election, so you sort of answered your own question.