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Compulsory voting: yes or no?

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Should we have compulsory voting?

Yes
63
26%
No
179
74%
 
Total votes : 242

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Atlanticatia
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Compulsory voting: yes or no?

Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:10 pm

In the USA, voter turnout is about 50-60% for federal elections.

In my opinion, we need compulsory voting in all federal congressional and presidential elections to fix our broken political system.

Currently, the poor don't really vote, and politicians specifically target special interest groups to get them to vote, rather than representing the whole population. Most Americans are pro-same sex marriage, for example, but politicians target wealthy, older voters who are more likely to vote -- because they are who matters. If we had compulsory voting, politicians would truly represent everyone, rather than special interests. The poor wouldn't be disenfranchised, as everyone would have to vote. It'd make our political system - one based heavily on special interests - a lot cleaner.

The voting day should be declared a federal public holiday, where everyone would be able to have a paid day off to vote. Or, elections should always be held on a Saturday or Sunday. Also, we should have compulsory high school classes in civics. (How the government works, the different branches of government, etc)

The penalty for not voting should be a fine.

We should also have a proportional representation system - abolishing the first-past-the-post system. With all of these things, our democracy would be much more representative, cleaner, and fairer for all people.

Because democracy is the most important part of our country, and right now -- our democracy isn't looking too good.

Australia has a compulsory voting system, and their populace seems much more involved in politics, at least compared to Americans.

Image

That graph shows that what we have now is grossly inequitable, unfair, and unrepresentative. Wealth not only decides who can influence politics, but who can vote.

It'd also put an end to all that voter suppression nonsense in some states that's going on right now.

Thoughts?

Edit: Let me clarify my point. I don't think that compulsory voting necessarily makes a good democracy. A democracy can work perfectly well without compulsory voting, but in the United States, there is a huge difference in voter turnout based on income, race, and age. If someone can think of an idea that would help improve voter turnout for disenfranchised groups and make a more representative democracy, be my guest. Australia shows that compulsory voting hasn't had a disastrous effect on their democracy. However, as I said before, compulsory voting would need to be paired with other things like civics classes, voting as a public holiday/on weekends, and proportional representation. If we can improve voter turnout without compulsory voting, great. But someone present an idea.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Margno
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Postby Margno » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:12 pm

Makes as much sense as the death penalty for attempted suicide.
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

No. Not everyone is qualified, or desires, to vote. Sometimes they do not thanks to self-selection and sometimes due to better alternatives. Either way, mandatory voting is hooey. Not voting is as much a civil right as voting itself.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Basically agree with OP.

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New Aerios
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Postby New Aerios » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:16 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:Wealth not only decides who can influence politics, but who can vote.

Thoughts?


My thoughts are that your statement there is complete bullshit. Prove to me that poor people aren't allowed to vote.
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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:16 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:No. Not everyone is qualified, or desires, to vote. Sometimes they do not thanks to self-selection and sometimes due to better alternatives. Either way, mandatory voting is hooey. Not voting is as much a civil right as voting itself.


How is someone unqualified to vote? Universal suffrage means that everyone can vote -- it was meant to replace the system where we thought only certain people were qualified to vote. (i.e. white male landowners)

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that voter apathy and special interests in politics has reached a point where it's starting to seriously damage our political system.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:17 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:No. Not everyone is qualified, or desires, to vote. Sometimes they do not thanks to self-selection and sometimes due to better alternatives. Either way, mandatory voting is hooey. Not voting is as much a civil right as voting itself.


How is someone unqualified to vote? Universal suffrage means that everyone can vote -- it was meant to replace the system where we thought only certain people were qualified to vote. (i.e. white male landowners)

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that voter apathy and special interests in politics has reached a point where it's starting to seriously damage our political system.

It is up to the voters to reinvigorate themselves to put an end to apathy.
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Lunalia
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Postby Lunalia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:18 pm

Even with compulsory civics classes, many people in my high school did not understand how the government works. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

I'd rather have fewer people who are willing to vote than more people who are unwilling to vote, because forcing people to do anything can cause unusual reactions. The thought of people who don't want to vote going out of their way to vote for the candidate they think is least likely to be a credit to the office out of misplaced passive aggressive biting off their nose to spite their face makes me shudder.
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Lavan Tiri
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Postby Lavan Tiri » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:19 pm

Lemme guess....you think suicide should be punished by death?
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Untaroicht
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Postby Untaroicht » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:20 pm

How about no elections...at all..ever. #AbsoluteMonarchy, #Fascism
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:20 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:No. Not everyone is qualified, or desires, to vote. Sometimes they do not thanks to self-selection and sometimes due to better alternatives. Either way, mandatory voting is hooey. Not voting is as much a civil right as voting itself.


How is someone unqualified to vote? Universal suffrage means that everyone can vote -- it was meant to replace the system where we thought only certain people were qualified to vote. (i.e. white male landowners)

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that voter apathy and special interests in politics has reached a point where it's starting to seriously damage our political system.

I can think of numerous explanations for what would make one unqualified to vote.
In order to save time, I'll use a Socratic technique: Do you want the same people who make 'Honey Boo-Boo' and 'the Kardashians' television successes determining the course of your country if, as is likely, they make up large segments of the populace who don't vote in political elections?

Universal suffrage means everyone can vote. That's not the same as saying everyone should. If some people self-select out, either because they consider themselves unworthy or they can't be arsked to do it, it's not an issue.
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Murbleflip
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Postby Murbleflip » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:20 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Australia has a compulsory voting system, and their populace seems much more involved in politics, at least compared to Americans.

(Image)

That graph shows that what we have now is grossly inequitable, unfair, and unrepresentative.

Does it? Does it really? It isn't inequitable; they're allowed to vote, they just don't. Unfair? Same. Unrepresentative? Sure. It only represents those who care at all about politics and who is in power. I'm sure all those people who don't care enough to vote will care about the system not representing their vote, right?
Wealth not only decides who can influence politics, but who can vote.

It would more seem, according to your graph and the american voting system, that wealth has nothing to do with being able to vote. There is, however, a quite weak correlation between wealth and voting.
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Libertarian California
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Postby Libertarian California » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:21 pm

Correlation does not equal causation. :palm:
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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 pm

Lavan Tiri wrote:Lemme guess....you think suicide should be punished by death?

:palm:
I'm not really for compulsory voting as a basis for democracy per se -- but currently, as voter turnout, especially among poor people and minorities, is at all time lows, I can't really think of any other way to fix the problem.

It does sound a bit silly to say "let's fix voter apathy by making it compulsory" -- but let's face it: there's not really a credible alternative.

If someone would like to offer one that would make the government more representative, and get those out to vote who should be voting, be my guest. I'm open to all options.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Viritica » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 pm

No.
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SaintB
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Postby SaintB » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:23 pm

No, nobody should force the apathetic to vote because then they will vote apathetically and nothing will be improved or gained.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:24 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:No. Not everyone is qualified, or desires, to vote. Sometimes they do not thanks to self-selection and sometimes due to better alternatives. Either way, mandatory voting is hooey. Not voting is as much a civil right as voting itself.


How is someone unqualified to vote? Universal suffrage means that everyone can vote -- it was meant to replace the system where we thought only certain people were qualified to vote. (i.e. white male landowners)

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that voter apathy and special interests in politics has reached a point where it's starting to seriously damage our political system.

I would like to point out that there is a part of the population that has had their voting rights arbitrarily taken from them. There is not universal suffrage.
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Mikosia
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Postby Mikosia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:24 pm

Forcing people to vote is completely anti-democratic.

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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:25 pm

Murbleflip wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:
Australia has a compulsory voting system, and their populace seems much more involved in politics, at least compared to Americans.

(Image)

That graph shows that what we have now is grossly inequitable, unfair, and unrepresentative.

Does it? Does it really? It isn't inequitable; they're allowed to vote, they just don't. Unfair? Same. Unrepresentative? Sure. It only represents those who care at all about politics and who is in power. I'm sure all those people who don't care enough to vote will care about the system not representing their vote, right?
Wealth not only decides who can influence politics, but who can vote.

It would more seem, according to your graph and the american voting system, that wealth has nothing to do with being able to vote. There is, however, a quite weak correlation between wealth and voting.


I wasn't meaning to say that they can't vote, but there is no reason why voter turnout should increase with income (I'd expect there to be a bit of difference between the wealthy and the poor in voter turnout, but a 40% difference in voter turnout simply based on income is kind of a big deal), and therefore political representation should be greater for those with higher incomes.

If someone can think of some way to make politics more representative, be my guest.
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Aushanit
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Postby Aushanit » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:25 pm

I don't disagree with it and it does have its bennifits as far as voter turnout but still I could do without it as well.

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Libertarian California
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Postby Libertarian California » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:26 pm

A lot of the complaints here seem to carry the sentiment of "the people that politically agree with me aren't voting for whatever reason. Let's force them to vote so I can have my way".
Last edited by Libertarian California on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lavan Tiri » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:26 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Lavan Tiri wrote:Lemme guess....you think suicide should be punished by death?

:palm:
I'm not really for compulsory voting as a basis for democracy per se -- but currently, as voter turnout, especially among poor people and minorities, is at all time lows, I can't really think of any other way to fix the problem.

It does sound a bit silly to say "let's fix voter apathy by making it compulsory" -- but let's face it: there's not really a credible alternative.

If someone would like to offer one that would make the government more representative, and get those out to vote who should be voting, be my guest. I'm open to all options.


Orrr.....you give money to schools so they can teach better or whatever and you spin the main focus of school from social and athletic skills and have civics be a class from third grade up to teach kids why they should vote.
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The Greater Luthorian Empire
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Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:That graph shows that what we have now is grossly inequitable, unfair, and unrepresentative. Wealth not only decides who can influence politics, but who can vote.

It'd also put an end to all that voter suppression nonsense in some states that's going on right now.

Thoughts?

How does poor people not voting display active voter suppression? Most poor people don't care as much about voting as most rich people. If you want more poor people to vote (why does it matter they still outnumber the rich?) start campaigns to get poor people to vote, and if voting is such a difficulty offer to help them. Offer to bus people to the polling places.

Mandatory voting is stupid, I don't vote, but if I had to I would take small bribes to make it slightly more beneficial to me to vote a certain way. Does a Republican friend wanna pay me $5 to vote Republican? Cool I'll vote Republican unless a Democrat friend of mine is willing to pay me >$5 to vote Democrat. I'm not gonna waste effort choosing something that I don't care about, it isn't like my vote matters anyway, the electoral college is shit and Tennessee will remain a red state for the foreseeable future and me voting Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, or any other party won't change that and since Tennessee will vote red my vote is a waste when it comes to presidential elections. If people are dumb enough to pay me to waste a second vote I am cool with that considering I would have to vote anyway.

tl;dr
The people who vote are the people who actually give a damn, the people who don't vote don't give a damn, by forcing the people who don't vote to vote you are simply wasting their time and money while damaging the quality of the voters by making more voters who pull a lever effectively at random.
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Viritica
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Postby Viritica » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Libertarian California wrote:A lot of the complaints here seem to carry the sentiment of "the people that politically agree with me aren't voting for whatever reason. Let's force them to vote so I can have my way".

Sounds about right.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 pm

Compulsory voting is not democracy, it's ballot box slavery.
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