SWAT flashbang versus an infants face

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't see how it's their fault that a bunch of busybodies and people who can't mind their own business decided to hijack the government to enforce a moral crusade.

They were selling Methamphetamine, that's how it's their fault.

So what.

[Viritica]

What exactly do you propose they do? Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

Oh don't give me that shit, Ostro. They had no idea there was a child there. They were told that there were armed men guarding the place.

[Ostroeuropa]

A clue as to what the fuck was going on would be a start.

The intel came out to be half-assed after the raid. Before that, I can imagine it seemed fairly complete.

Informant goes in with the limit of seeing whatever he walks past as he is lead to the deal area.

Reports X number of men with X number of arms, in X positions.

I wouldn't even blame the informant. I would blame the police force for not deciding to perform any additional recon.

Precisely. Any asshole could be an informant for any number of motives. Not performing additional recon is extremely negligent.

[Spoder]

What exactly do you propose they do? Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

The officers followed their orders. It's not exactly their decision.

Blame the drug dealers. They're the ones who put the baby at risk, knowing the officers were going to have to be aggressive to salvage the operation.

[Scomagia]

Isn't it fun to judge people we've never met about their living circumstances?

I would say in this case it is fair.

1. She is/was married to a drug dealer.

2. She decided to have a child with the drug dealer.

3. She was willing to risk this child's life for drugs.

The dealer was not the child's father and they were not married. From where are you pulling this?

[Paddy O Fernature]

What exactly do you propose they do? Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

The only fucked view I see right now, is yours for reasons that should be rather obvious.

[Conkerials]

What exactly do you propose they do? Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

I said this earlier that, you shouldn't be taking care of a child why high on Meth. You're simply way too fucking out of it to be taking care of a child. Let alone the extreme addictiveness of the drug alone will cause financial misfortune. And how does she expect to take care of the child?

[Ifreann]

Yes, they were. That's not a reason not to try and find out what's behind the door before throwing in a flashbang.

What exactly do you propose they do?

Use some manner of mirror rig, or maybe even one of those fiber optic things if they can get them, to try and have a look behind the door before throwing anything in there.

Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

The toilet on the other side of the front door?

[Ostroeuropa]

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

Oh don't give me that shit, Ostro. They had no idea there was a child there. They were told that there were armed men guarding the place.

This is the implicit position of banning this kind of thing and using fucking swat teams to run around arresting people for it.
People die because of the drug ban. This time it might have been a baby.
They had no idea a child was there, but you do have an idea that because of the drug ban, people, including babies, will die.
Sooner or later, this shit happens. It's part of the cost of the drug war.

[Ionian Knights]

SWAT Is sent in to get Dealer.

something seems to be barricading the door after ramming. In order to keep the element of surprise intact, they flashbang the house.

Child is in crosshairs, but was not targeted on purpose by the SWAT crew.



After reading 5 pages of this thread... I'm still dumbfounded on the people who blame the SWAT team on this.

May I ask, what did they do wrong? They followed the proper procedure to preform their execution of the warrant, using their role of as the executioners of the law... unfortunately, an infant was the blocking party. All I see here is an accident, with possible child endangerment on the parents part for living in a home with drugs.

[Conkerials]

They were selling Methamphetamine, that's how it's their fault.

So what.

Methamphetamine is no ordinary drug. It's extremely addictive and highly toxic. You shouldn't be taking care of children if you're hyped up on a drug as bad as such.

[Camicon]

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

I said this earlier that, you shouldn't be taking care of a child why high on Meth. You're simply way too fucking out of it to be taking care of a child. Let alone the extreme addictiveness of the drug alone will cause financial misfortune. And how does she expect to take care of the child?

The drug dealers and users were not the parents of the child. They were not caring for the child.

[Ostroeuropa]

And clearly, putting peoples lives at risk is worth getting that evidence of consenting adults doing their own thing in their own time.
It's well worth all the dead babies and shit.
Maybe if we start calling all the busybodies and prudes "babykillers" they might start to understand how fucked their worldview is.

I said this earlier that, you shouldn't be taking care of a child why high on Meth. You're simply way too fucking out of it to be taking care of a child. Let alone the extreme addictiveness of the drug alone will cause financial misfortune. And how does she expect to take care of the child?

Yeh men. We often use SWAT teams in place of Social Workers.

[Ostroeuropa]

So what.

Methamphetamine is no ordinary drug. It's extremely addictive and highly toxic. You shouldn't be taking care of children if you're hyped up on a drug as bad as such.

I said this earlier that, you shouldn't be taking care of a child why high on Meth. You're simply way too fucking out of it to be taking care of a child. Let alone the extreme addictiveness of the drug alone will cause financial misfortune. And how does she expect to take care of the child?

Yeh men. We often use SWAT teams in place of Social Workers.

[Spoder]

I would say in this case it is fair.

1. She is/was married to a drug dealer.

2. She decided to have a child with the drug dealer.

3. She was willing to risk this child's life for drugs.

The dealer was not the child's father and they were not married. From where are you pulling this?

Whups misread OP.

1. She was willing to live nearby a drug dealer (while she was the guardian/parent of a child)

2. She was willing to risk this child's life.

If she actually cared enough about the child, she would have warned the officers somehow, even if it meant a bullet to the head.

I know my parents would have done the same had they been put in such a position.

[Viritica]

What exactly do you propose they do?

1. Use some manner of mirror rig, or maybe even one of those fiber optic things if they can get them, to try and have a look behind the door before throwing anything in there.

Their job is to get in there as quickly as possible. They'd already lost the element of surprise. For all they know the dealer could of been flushing the drugs down the toilet.

2. The toilet on the other side of the front door?

1. How do you know they had such things with them?
2. I'm assuming they thought there was more than one person, yes?

[Ifreann]

SWAT Is sent in to get Dealer.

something seems to be barricading the door after ramming. In order to keep the element of surprise intact, they flashbang the house.

Child is in crosshairs, but was not targeted on purpose by the SWAT crew.



After reading 5 pages of this thread... I'm still dumbfounded on the people who blame the SWAT team on this.

May I ask, what did they do wrong? They followed the proper procedure to preform their execution of the warrant, using their role of as the executioners of the law... unfortunately, an infant was the blocking party. All I see here is an accident, with possible child endangerment on the parents part for living in a home with drugs.

An accident they could have prevented with an application of simple equipment that they should have had access to.

[Conkerials]

I said this earlier that, you shouldn't be taking care of a child why high on Meth. You're simply way too fucking out of it to be taking care of a child. Let alone the extreme addictiveness of the drug alone will cause financial misfortune. And how does she expect to take care of the child?

The drug dealers and users were not the parents of the child. They were not caring for the child.

Gah. Right. You shouldn't be in the same household, regardless. This is still due to the irresponsibility of adult figures.

[Viritica]

Oh don't give me that shit, Ostro. They had no idea there was a child there. They were told that there were armed men guarding the place.

This is the implicit position of banning this kind of thing and using fucking swat teams to run around arresting people for it.
People die because of the drug ban. This time it might have been a baby.
They had no idea a child was there, but you do have an idea that because of the drug ban, people, including babies, will die.
Sooner or later, this shit happens. It's part of the cost of the drug war.

Okay? I'm not seeing how the drug ban is the fault of police officers. They don't make laws. They just enforce them.

[Cetacea]

I'm predicting the investigation to reveal "no wrong doing" on the officer's parts and that there will be no punishment other than perhaps "retraining" and paid vacation leave.

If the report is verifed as true I'd actually agee with a "no wrongdoing" call. They came throw the front door of a confirmed drug dealer with a previous firearms charge.

The police werent to know a baby would be proped right up against the front door. If it was a back or side door I might accept, but right up by the front door isnt somewhere Id put my sleeping baby...

Tragic but the meth pusher is at fault not the police

[Ostroeuropa]

The drug dealers and users were not the parents of the child. They were not caring for the child.

Gah. Right. You shouldn't be in the same household, regardless. This is still due to the irresponsibility of adult figures.

So what?
Why does that justify the use of a SWAT team exactly?
Kids are endangered all the time from shitty parents and we don't use SWAT teams to address it. So your argument seems completely ridiculous.

[Spoder]

Oh don't give me that shit, Ostro. They had no idea there was a child there. They were told that there were armed men guarding the place.

This is the implicit position of banning this kind of thing and using fucking swat teams to run around arresting people for it.
People die because of the drug ban. This time it might have been a baby.
They had no idea a child was there, but you do have an idea that because of the drug ban, people, including babies, will die.
Sooner or later, this shit happens. It's part of the cost of the drug war.

So you're saying that you'd rather that people were allowed to perform open drug deals on the streets with middle schoolers?

[Ifreann]

1. Use some manner of mirror rig, or maybe even one of those fiber optic things if they can get them, to try and have a look behind the door before throwing anything in there.

2. The toilet on the other side of the front door?

1. How do you know they had such things with them?

I don't, but if they didn't, they should have, simple as that.

2. I'm assuming they thought there was more than one person, yes?

Well no amount of loud noises and bright lights are going to stop some guy in another room from flushing drugs. It's not going to get the door down any faster either.

[Camicon]

The drug dealers and users were not the parents of the child. They were not caring for the child.

Gah. Right. You shouldn't be in the same household, regardless. This is still due to the irresponsibility of adult figures.

Says fucking who? You? On what authority? With what experience? By what right?

[Scomagia]

The dealer was not the child's father and they were not married. From where are you pulling this?

Whups misread OP.

1. She was willing to live nearby a drug dealer (while she was the guardian/parent of a child)

2. She was willing to risk this child's life.

If she actually cared enough about the child, she would have warned the officers somehow, even if it meant a bullet to the head.

I know my parents would have done the same had they been put in such a position.

She wasn't there at the time of the raid, either, so how could she have "warned" the officers? The reason they were living there was because their house burnt down.