SWAT flashbang versus an infants face

[Viritica]

Then blame the judge who gave them a search warrant. Blame the officers who ordered it in the first place.

I do.

Good. Glad we can agree.

[Scomagia]

I do.

Good. Glad we can agree.

I'm on this agreement train as well.

[Viritica]

And are probably horrified by what happened to the kid, as I said a page or two back.

What does their being horrified or not matter?

---

You said they should have planned for trying to find out what was there. They were planning on finding out what was there. They had a warrant and they were executing that warrant.

By "there" I was referring to behind the door. As in, what was it that was keeping it from being smashed in.

They were told that there were armed men guarding the house. I don't really blame them for assuming that someone was trying to barricade the place.

[Viritica]

Good. Glad we can agree.

I'm on this agreement train as well.

Excellent. This discussion is wrapping up nicely.

[Conkerials]

Instead of solely focusing the end result of this, albeit it was a very sad and frustrating result. Let's look at what caused this event to take place.

[Scomagia]

Instead of solely focusing the end result of this, albeit it was a very sad and frustrating result. Let's look at what caused this event to take place.

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

[Viritica]

Instead of solely focusing the end result of this, albeit it was a very sad and frustrating result. Let's look at what caused this event to take place.

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

Coupled with a shitty informant.

[Scomagia]

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

Coupled with a shitty informant.

Seems about right.

[Conkerials]

Instead of solely focusing the end result of this, albeit it was a very sad and frustrating result. Let's look at what caused this event to take place.

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

Methamphetamine is no ordinary drug. It's extremely addictive and highly toxic. You shouldn't be taking care of children if you're hyped up on a drug as bad as such.

[Spoder]

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

Coupled with a shitty informant.

I hardly believe that the babycade was already setup when the informant was there, and that even if he had known about the presence of a toddler (the mother said the kids would be kept out of sight during deals) your average joe could hardly expect a father to use their very small child as a living barricade.

[Scomagia]

Pointless drug laws and a rubber stamping judge?

Methamphetamine is no ordinary drug. It's extremely addictive and highly toxic. You shouldn't be taking care of children if you're hyped up on a drug as bad as such.

That's true, though it bears noting that there's no evidence anyone in the residence was actually tweaking.

[Ifreann]

What does their being horrified or not matter?

---

By "there" I was referring to behind the door. As in, what was it that was keeping it from being smashed in.

They were told that there were armed men guarding the house. I don't really blame them for assuming that someone was trying to barricade the place.

Barricades of what nature? Is the door now impenetrable, or does it just need to be hit harder? Might there be something there they don't want to throw a flashbang at? No way to know, I guess, otherwise the police were wrong for failing to do so and we can't have that.

[Camicon]

Care to point out where you're getting that information from?

Alecia Phonesavanh guest-wrote a piece about her ordeal over at Salon.

I normally wouldn't use Salon as a source but it is a primary source.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with Salon. Even as a primary source, you have to take everything with a truckload of salt.

[Conkerials]

Methamphetamine is no ordinary drug. It's extremely addictive and highly toxic. You shouldn't be taking care of children if you're hyped up on a drug as bad as such.

That's true, though it bears noting that there's no evidence anyone in the residence was actually tweaking.

According to the OP, they were selling Methamphetamine at the residence and one (or more?) of the occupants was arrested later after the raid at another home for drug abuse.

[Scomagia]

That's true, though it bears noting that there's no evidence anyone in the residence was actually tweaking.

According to the OP, they were selling Methamphetamine at the residence and one (or more?) of the occupants was arrested later after the raid at another home for drug abuse.

Which proves they were tweaking while babysitting how?

[Conkerials]

According to the OP, they were selling Methamphetamine at the residence and one (or more?) of the occupants was arrested later after the raid at another home for drug abuse.

Which proves they were tweaking while babysitting how?

They were bringing dangerous people and tweakers into the house.

[Scomagia]

Alecia Phonesavanh guest-wrote a piece about her ordeal over at Salon.

I normally wouldn't use Salon as a source but it is a primary source.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with Salon. Even as a primary source, you have to take everything with a truckload of salt.

I wouldn't either, those pages would hurt.

[Camicon]

That's true, though it bears noting that there's no evidence anyone in the residence was actually tweaking.

According to the OP, they were selling Methamphetamine at the residence and one (or more?) of the occupants was arrested later after the raid at another home for drug abuse.

The child that was hurt, their sibling and parents, were not drug dealers or drug users. The owner of the house, whom they were staying with, were.

[Scomagia]

Which proves they were tweaking while babysitting how?

They were bringing dangerous people and tweakers into the house.

Which doesn't mean they were high.

[Viritica]

They were told that there were armed men guarding the house. I don't really blame them for assuming that someone was trying to barricade the place.

Barricades of what nature? Is the door now impenetrable, or does it just need to be hit harder? Might there be something there they don't want to throw a flashbang at? No way to know, I guess, otherwise the police were wrong for failing to do so and we can't have that.

People standing in front of it trying to block it. That seems to be what they assumed. I mean, it's not all that common for mothers to use their child's cribs as makeshift barricades.

[Conkerials]

According to the OP, they were selling Methamphetamine at the residence and one (or more?) of the occupants was arrested later after the raid at another home for drug abuse.

The child that was hurt, their sibling and parents, were not drug dealers or drug users. The owner of the house, whom they were staying with, were.

Again, the fault lies not entirely with the officers, but the irresponsible adult figures. Besides, if they had reasonable suspicion that there were armed men in the residence, I don't blame them for their caution. I'm not denying that this is a terrible event, because it is terrible . But it's irresponsible to say that only the officers are to blame.

[Conkerials]

They were bringing dangerous people and tweakers into the house.

Which doesn't mean they were high.

Let me rephrase that.
They were bringing dangerous, tweaking strangers into a house with an infant there.

[Scomagia]

The child that was hurt, their sibling and parents, were not drug dealers or drug users. The owner of the house, whom they were staying with, were.

Again, the fault lies not entirely with the officers, but the irresponsible adult figures. Besides, if they had reasonable suspicion that there were armed men in the residence, I don't blame them for their caution. I'm not denying that this is a terrible event, because it is terrible . But it's irresponsible to say that only the officers are to blame.

The blame is with the judge for rubber stamping the warrant based solely on information from an informant.

[Ifreann]

Barricades of what nature? Is the door now impenetrable, or does it just need to be hit harder? Might there be something there they don't want to throw a flashbang at? No way to know, I guess, otherwise the police were wrong for failing to do so and we can't have that.

People standing in front of it trying to block it. That seems to be what they assumed. I mean, it's not all that common for mothers to use their child's cribs as makeshift barricades.

No, but it's entirely possible that drug dealers might have stuck some furniture there to slow the cops down. Far more likely than them having someone braced against the door at 3 in the morning.

[Conkerials]

Again, the fault lies not entirely with the officers, but the irresponsible adult figures. Besides, if they had reasonable suspicion that there were armed men in the residence, I don't blame them for their caution. I'm not denying that this is a terrible event, because it is terrible . But it's irresponsible to say that only the officers are to blame.

The blame is with the judge for rubber stamping the warrant based solely on information from an informant.

Which turned out to be true.