The Confederate battle flag

[Cipobana]

It represents the southeastern U.S. in most cases. It offends some people because it was used to support African-American slavery during the civil war. There is still one remaining state flag that has the confederate flag within the flag. Mississippi.

[Dyakovo]

The Hammer and Sickle led to murder, genocide, and violation of basic human rights yet it is flown around worldwide today without complaint. I believe that the Confederate Flag, which was a rallying cause for state's rights and liberties, is hardly a messenger of hate. It is an integral part of Southern History and Heritage, and if they wish to fly it around as a symbol of that history and heritage, that is perfectly fine with me.

Hammer and sickles don`t represent murder, even you can use to murder someone. The hammer represent the factory workers while the sickle represents the farmers.
BySoviet Socialist

He's conflating the hammer & sickle with the flag of the СССР.

[Revanchism]

It was a long time ago, Genivaria. I mean, the last page has more or less been West Coast's attempt to handwave dissent by shifting focus away via strawman.

??? The fuck are you even talking about? I'm being attacked by multiple people over a simple typo. Am I supposed to stand by and let others make fun of me?

...
You're really trying hard, aren't you?
I mean, now you're even ignoring the fact that you brought up the whole swastika thing in what was a blatant strawman.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

the confederate flag does not represent hatred, it represents southern independence.

Seriously, be civil enough to just read a few pages back before you jump into a thread, if only to see if your arguments haven't been repeatedly brought up and debunked. It's not fair to expect the rest of us to go back to square one just to save you the trouble.

[Llamalandia]

Going to ad hominems I see, no more arguments then?
I think we can say this 'debate' is concluded then.

It was a long time ago, Genivaria. I mean, the last page has more or less been West Coast's attempt to handwave dissent by shifting focus away via strawman.

He only made two posts on the last page by my count that's hardly dominating the last page. Whether of not the arguments a straw man I'm not sure.

[Revanchism]

Well certainly they were facing oppressive taxation. After all the tarriffs are describe unfavorably even when compared to smoot hawley. You the tarrif that basically killed the notion of widespread use of tarriffs/major trade barriers in USA.

Exactly what taxes were these? Please show how they were harming the Southern economy, and exactly how they were forced upon the South without representation.

I know what he's talking about. He's mainly talking about the Tariff of 1828, which by no means was forced upon the South without representation. Hell, when the South dissented in a way that normal people do via political means, a compromise tariff was reached.
The only forcing was done when South Carolina went full on Special Snowflake, which ended in yet another compromise in the South's favor.

[Soviet Socialist]

the confederate flag does not represent hatred, it represents southern independence.

But the flag are used by racist people and they wanted to show their racial hatred. There are small groups that support racism.

[-The West Coast-]

??? The fuck are you even talking about? I'm being attacked by multiple people over a simple typo. Am I supposed to stand by and let others make fun of me?

...
You're really trying hard, aren't you?
I mean, now you're even ignoring the fact that you brought up the whole swastika thing in what was a blatant strawman.

Are you getting hard from this? I've been insulted by several people from the get-go and the only reason was because I don't think the same things that you think, so now you think I'm trying to weasel out of this debate by saying I'm not okay with being picked on for being that guy. You are trying really hard, aren't you?

[Cipobana]

I posted my thoughts while the rest of the people on the thread were arguing; therefore, I was ignored...

[Arkinesia]

For those claiming this was not about slavery, explain this bullshit:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

Do I need to go through each and every declaration of secession to show that slavery was the point of the breakaway, or is this already strong enough a sample?

[Revanchism]

...
You're really trying hard, aren't you?
I mean, now you're even ignoring the fact that you brought up the whole swastika thing in what was a blatant strawman.

Are you getting hard from this? I've been insulted by several people from the get-go and the only reason was because I don't think the same things that you think, so now you think I'm trying to weasel out of this debate by saying I'm not okay with being picked on for being that guy. You are trying really hard, aren't you?

The reason was because in your attempts at intellectual dishonesty, you screwed up.
Of course, much like when that guy at school who does all the tough posturing gets his ass kicked, people will laugh and make fun. Get used to it.
I'm also loving the "I know you are, but what am I?". Hilarious stuff, truly.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

It represents the southeastern U.S. in most cases. It offends some people because it was used to support African-American slavery during the civil war. There is still one remaining state flag that has the confederate flag within the flag. Mississippi.

Hey, that's pretty reasonable for a change.

[-The West Coast-]

Are you getting hard from this? I've been insulted by several people from the get-go and the only reason was because I don't think the same things that you think, so now you think I'm trying to weasel out of this debate by saying I'm not okay with being picked on for being that guy. You are trying really hard, aren't you?

The reason was because in your attempts at intellectual dishonesty, you screwed up.
Of course, much like when that guy at school who does all the tough posturing gets his ass kicked, people will laugh and make fun. Get used to it.
I'm also loving the "I know you are, but what am I?".

Well, I don't see where I was intellectually dishonest (other than the obvious fourth reich typo that i corrected immediately). But hey, if you want to get slammed for thread-jacking, be my guest. I won't be, so I'm finished with this B.S. tangent with you and your buddies.

[Dyakovo]

The reason was because in your attempts at intellectual dishonesty, you screwed up.
Of course, much like when that guy at school who does all the tough posturing gets his ass kicked, people will laugh and make fun. Get used to it.
I'm also loving the "I know you are, but what am I?".

Well, I don't see where I was intellectually dishonest .

Every single one of your revisionist claims.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I posted my thoughts while the rest of the people on the thread were arguing; therefore, I was ignored...

What you stated wasn't overly controversial, so people likely didn't see the need to argue the point.

[Roski]

the confederate flag does not represent hatred, it represents southern independence.

But the flag are used by racist people and they wanted to show their racial hatred. There are small groups that support racism.

But not everyone who uses it (or used it for that matter; you expect slavery to be harsh. The fuck you think this is, Portuguese-owned Brazil?) represents hatred.

And if you want to go into all this slavery bs; its not only present in the USA.

Here, educate yourself on slavery and not the American textbook definition while you are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

[Revanchism]

Well, I don't see where I was intellectually dishonest .

Every single one of your revisionist claims.

Don't forget his swastika strawman and feigned ignorance.

[Dyakovo]

But the flag are used by racist people and they wanted to show their racial hatred. There are small groups that support racism.

But not everyone who uses it (or used it for that matter; you expect slavery to be harsh. The fuck you think this is, Portuguese-owned Brazil?) represents hatred.

And if you want to go into all this slavery bs; its not only present in the USA.

Here, educate yourself on slavery and not the American textbook definition while you are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

No-one claimed it was.

[Nervium]

Is the Pope Catholic?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

But the flag are used by racist people and they wanted to show their racial hatred. There are small groups that support racism.

But not everyone who uses it (or used it for that matter; you expect slavery to be harsh. The fuck you think this is, Portuguese-owned Brazil?) represents hatred.

And if you want to go into all this slavery bs; its not only present in the USA.

Here, educate yourself on slavery and not the American textbook definition while you are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

I see. My response to your points would be as follows:

So fucking what? We're not debating whether or not slavery exists elsewhere in the world, and no one was claiming it as an evil confined to American shores. What's your point?

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Is the Pope Catholic?

I would be more surprised if that statement didn't start an argument than if it did.

[Roski]

But not everyone who uses it (or used it for that matter; you expect slavery to be harsh. The fuck you think this is, Portuguese-owned Brazil?) represents hatred.

And if you want to go into all this slavery bs; its not only present in the USA.

Here, educate yourself on slavery and not the American textbook definition while you are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

I see. My response to your points would be as follows:

So fucking what? We're not debating whether or not slavery exists elsewhere in the world, and no one was claiming it as an evil confined to American shores. What's your point?

You want to see the confederate war flag banned?
Do you even understand the confederacy at all?
But if you want the confederate flag banned, take half of asia with it.
In fact, every flag that exists should be banned.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

I see. My response to your points would be as follows:

So fucking what? We're not debating whether or not slavery exists elsewhere in the world, and no one was claiming it as an evil confined to American shores. What's your point?

You want to see the confederate war flag banned?
Do you even understand the confederacy at all?
But if you want the confederate flag banned, take half of asia with it.
In fact, every flag that exists should be banned.

Literally nobody is suggesting that the flag be banned, that's a straw man. Your argument can be strong if you avoid fallacies, guy!

[Naturist]

It's a symbol of Southern heritage and states' rights. The racism is secondary nonsense that got tacked on later.

and even that is a recent thing..

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

It's a symbol of Southern heritage and states' rights. The racism is secondary nonsense that got tacked on later.

and even that is a recent thing..

Nope. Read the thread, racism is an integral part of the CSA's founding ideologies.