The Confederate battle flag

[Yumyumsuppertime]

There wasn't one but I wouldn't put it past him had no compromise been reached. And he was right. The Union is a government, not a league. You don't get to walk out when you don't like the way things are playing out.

You actually do get to walk out, that's what the Union doesn't understand. If the USA could walk out of the British crown in the name of independence and freedom from tyranny, I don't see why the Southern states couldn't do it and cite the same reasons.

Because as states with representation in Congress, they were not subjects of a tyrant.

[Dyakovo]

There wasn't one but I wouldn't put it past him had no compromise been reached. And he was right. The Union is a government, not a league. You don't get to walk out when you don't like the way things are playing out.

You actually do get to walk out, that's what the Union doesn't understand.

Wrong.

[Revanchism]

You'll note he said "nazi flag" not "swastika".

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

Considering the vast amounts of variations, styles, and interpretations of the symbol known as the swastika, I'd say no, the two are not the same.
You're really trying to grasp at straws here, aren't you?

[Farnhamia]

That's not the point. The beliefs of Northerners in general or Abraham Lincoln in particular about Negroes does not disprove the fact that the Confederacy was created to preserve slavery within its borders.

True but it does to to the question of what the war was about. And it was clearly about more than just slavery for both the north and the south. That's what my point was.

It was all about preserving slavery for the South. It was more about preserving the Union for the North.

[Llamalandia]

And how many northerner at that time consider the white man and the "negro" to be equals? Hmm?

I mean lets face it as pointed out earlier Lincoln was willing to the throw slaves under the bus had it been a viable means of preserving the union. It's important to point out the motives of both sides in war.

So yeah was slavery the Main driver and not merely "proverbial straw" ? Sure. Was it the only significant grievance of the south? Not by a long shot.

And not once did I say it was, sorry if it seemed I did.

Fair enough but the. Given that concession, can we not also logically say that even if the flag does/did rep the confeds that it represents more than slavery as well? I think it not an overly great leap in logic.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

Considering the vast amounts of variations, styles, and interpretations of the symbol known as the swastika, I'd say no, the two are not the same.
You're really trying to grasp at straws here, aren't you?

The nazi flag bears a right-facing swastika (standard) with rigid lines (nonstandard) which is usually rotated 45 degrees on nazi attire.

[-The West Coast-]

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

Considering the vast amounts of variations, styles, and interpretations of the symbol known as the swastika, I'd say no, the two are not the same.
You're really trying to grasp at straws here, aren't you?

Not at all, actually. The flag the Nazis flew as their flag had a big black swastika in the center of a white circle in the center of a red rectangle. How am I wrong about this???

[Farnhamia]

And not once did I say it was, sorry if it seemed I did.

Fair enough but the. Given that concession, can we not also logically say that even if the flag does/did rep the confeds that it represents more than slavery as well? I think it not an overly great leap in logic.

Were I proud Southerner I would be embarrassed to use that flag as my symbol.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The South did not have taxation without representation no.

I said in that same post the USA left in the name of freedom from tyranny not from taxation without representation. Does anyone read people's posts nowadays?

The taxation without representation was a major part of why this was considered tyranny, though. Do you find it difficult to understand the underlying causes of all wars, or just the ones fought on American soil?

[Dyakovo]

The South did not have taxation without representation no.

I said in that same post the USA left in the name of freedom from tyranny not from taxation without representation. Does anyone read people's posts nowadays?

Well... You sure as hell don't. If you did, you wouldn't be repeating the same old revisionist bullshit That's been repeatedly debunked.
Also, the southern states weren't experiencing tyranny.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

And not once did I say it was, sorry if it seemed I did.

Fair enough but the. Given that concession, can we not also logically say that even if the flag does/did rep the confeds that it represents more than slavery as well? I think it not an overly great leap in logic.

I suppose, but then it still represents in a large part the support of slavery, doesn't it? You don't get to pick and choose how people will perceive your symbols.

[Llamalandia]

You actually do get to walk out, that's what the Union doesn't understand. If the USA could walk out of the British crown in the name of independence and freedom from tyranny, I don't see why the Southern states couldn't do it and cite the same reasons.

Because as states with representation in Congress, they were not subjects of a tyrant.

True though it does appear the tarriffs were absolutely ridiculous. It basically got to the point where they may have crippled the southern economy. If anything free trade was a major concern of the south (or rather fairly applied tarriff law)

[Dyakovo]

You'll note he said "nazi flag" not "swastika".

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

No, it wasn't.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Fair enough but the. Given that concession, can we not also logically say that even if the flag does/did rep the confeds that it represents more than slavery as well? I think it not an overly great leap in logic.

Were I proud Southerner I would be embarrassed to use that flag as my symbol.

As a southerner proud of his home, I'm embarrassed when people use that flag as our symbol.

[Llamalandia]

Fair enough but the. Given that concession, can we not also logically say that even if the flag does/did rep the confeds that it represents more than slavery as well? I think it not an overly great leap in logic.

I suppose, but then it still represents in a large part the support of slavery, doesn't it? You don't get to pick and choose how people will perceive your symbols.

True, but do the perceptions of others really matter that much? I mean this country believes more in free speech than almost anything else after all. I'm sure plenty of flag owners take the flag down when having company whom they might offend.

[Farnhamia]

Because as states with representation in Congress, they were not subjects of a tyrant.

True though it does appear the tarriffs were absolutely ridiculous. It basically got to the point where they may have crippled the southern economy. If anything free trade was a major concern of the south (or rather fairly applied tarriff law)

If you mean the Morrill tariff, it was bottled up in a Senate committee and only passed after the Southern states withdrew from Congress. See how that works?

[-The West Coast-]

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

No, it wasn't.

You're denying the fact that this was not the flag of the Third Reich? Do you see the Swastika in the center right there? Or am I just making it up?

[Llamalandia]

You'll note further that the "nazi flag" was the "swastika".

No, it wasn't.

Well ok but come on you knew what he meant. Yes technically it was a black swastika turned at @ a 45 degree angle in a white circle centered on a red field. There.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because as states with representation in Congress, they were not subjects of a tyrant.

True though it does appear the tarriffs were absolutely ridiculous. It basically got to the point where they may have crippled the southern economy. If anything free trade was a major concern of the south (or rather fairly applied tarriff law)

In which case they needed to fight it through the democratic process.

[Genivaria]

No, it wasn't.

You're denying the fact that this was not the flag of the Fourth Reich? Do you see the Swastika in the center right there? Or am I just making it up?

I've lost count of how many times you've twisted someone's words, you're not an honest person are you?

[Revanchism]

Considering the vast amounts of variations, styles, and interpretations of the symbol known as the swastika, I'd say no, the two are not the same.
You're really trying to grasp at straws here, aren't you?

Not at all, actually. The flag the Nazis flew as their flag had a big black swastika in the center of a white circle in the center of a red rectangle. How am I wrong about this???

Because not all swastikas are nazi flags. It's that fucking simple.
And, of course, that the flags colors are also symbolic. I'll quote from Mein Kampf:

"As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work."

The colors were...

"those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation."

So yes, you are quite wrong. Very, very wrong. Unfortunately, it's not the only thing in this thread that you're wrong about.

[Farnhamia]

No, it wasn't.

You're denying the fact that this was not the flag of the Fourth Reich? Do you see the Swastika in the center right there? Or am I just making it up?

Third Reich. The swastika was the symbol of the Nazi Party but that was the flag of the Third Reich. So what?

[Llamalandia]

I said in that same post the USA left in the name of freedom from tyranny not from taxation without representation. Does anyone read people's posts nowadays?

Well... You sure as hell don't. If you did, you wouldn't be repeating the same old revisionist bullshit That's been repeatedly debunked.
Also, the southern states weren't experiencing tyranny.

Well certainly they were facing oppressive taxation. After all the tarriffs are describe unfavorably even when compared to smoot hawley. You the tarrif that basically killed the notion of widespread use of tarriffs/major trade barriers in USA.

[Revanchism]

No, it wasn't.

Well ok but come on you knew what he meant. Yes technically it was a black swastika turned at @ a 45 degree angle in a white circle centered on a red field. There.

Flag symbolism is a thing, I suggest you learn about it.
A smattering of knowledge about symbolism in general and world cultures wouldn't hurt either.

[Genivaria]

You're denying the fact that this was not the flag of the Fourth Reich? Do you see the Swastika in the center right there? Or am I just making it up?

Third Reich. The swastika was the symbol of the Nazi Party but that was the flag of the Third Reich. So what?

I didn't even notice that mistake, so REALLY not good at history are you?