The Confederate battle flag

[Dyakovo]

No, it does not. The Confederate flag does not resemble hatred, racism or slavery. Ignoramuses without an understanding of intricate political affairs and historical events have managed to change the perception of the flag and the southern movement itself and they have convinced the world that the Civil War was solely founded on racism, hatred and slavery.

Absolute bullshit.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because, as has been repeatedly stated (and I know this, since I've been the one stating it), the Union flag was not flown by people who were rebelling against England because they thought that their right to own slaves might be threatened at some point in the future.

You are right.

They started a fucking war over tea. Don't even try to explain that shit with morals.

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

[-The West Coast-]

No, it does not. The Confederate flag does not resemble hatred, racism or slavery. Ignoramuses without an understanding of intricate political affairs and historical events have managed to change the perception of the flag and the southern movement itself and they have convinced the world that the Civil War was solely founded on racism, hatred and slavery.

Absolute bullshit.

For an adult, you surprise me with this sort of asinine rebuttal.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

No, it does not. The Confederate flag does not resemble hatred, racism or slavery. Ignoramuses without an understanding of intricate political affairs and historical events have managed to change the perception of the flag and the southern movement itself and they have convinced the world that the Civil War was solely founded on racism, hatred and slavery.

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

[West Afrika]

You are right.

They started a fucking war over tea. Don't even try to explain that shit with morals.

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

[Llamalandia]

In most cases nowadays it's just an old flag representing the deep south as a region ...even southern African-Americans fly it.
Though, truth be told, there are many reported cases of it being used by racist neoconfederates.

The real question is; Why racist neoconfederates exist? Is it pherhaps due to the education system of the US?
Grow up USA, banning a piece of cloth won't solve anything.

There may be a kernel of truth in what you say about edu in America, but I'm pretty sure there would still be racists and neoconfeds regardless. I mean even if we went to communist style reeducation camps some people still wouldn't give up their position of hate etc. I mean short of full out indoctrination in schools you can't eliminate the problem and indoctrination isn't something we're willing to do in this country. I mean this isn't Germany after all where they outright ban displays of the swastika/nazism. If you wanna be an idiotic neoconfeds rate or skinhead or neonazi, hey that's your right as an American.

[Dyakovo]

Absolute bullshit.

For an adult, you surprise me with this sort of asinine rebuttal.

Read the fucking thread. Your claims have been shown to be bullshit numerous times.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

Well, adjusting for inflation...
But seriously, the taxes were actually super unreasonable tariffs and sales taxes that were used to pay for a war the colonies didn't choose to join but were instead forced to, without any say in the matter.

[Getrektistan]

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

The amount wasn't important, it was the lack of representation, the notion that they could in principle be taxed very unfairly with little recourse.

[Estado Paulista]

Note: I am not a racist, I have friends of many races

That's what I'd call a bad start.

[Llamalandia]

No, it does not. The Confederate flag does not resemble hatred, racism or slavery. Ignoramuses without an understanding of intricate political affairs and historical events have managed to change the perception of the flag and the southern movement itself and they have convinced the world that the Civil War was solely founded on racism, hatred and slavery.

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

Ok so the VP of the CSA said it. So what? If their VP was treated at all like the way the USA treats VPs (both modern and historic) he was largely ignored anyway. I mean imagine someone quoting the gaff prone joe Biden a 150 years from now.

[West Afrika]

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

Well, adjusting for inflation...
But seriously, the taxes were actually super unreasonable tariffs and sales taxes that were used to pay for a war the colonies didn't choose to join but were instead forced to, without any say in the matter.

Dude, five bucks is with inflation.

I do agree on tariffs. And all tariffs. Their bull.

[-The West Coast-]

No, it does not. The Confederate flag does not resemble hatred, racism or slavery. Ignoramuses without an understanding of intricate political affairs and historical events have managed to change the perception of the flag and the southern movement itself and they have convinced the world that the Civil War was solely founded on racism, hatred and slavery.

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

Way to believe everything you read, bro. Sources can be manipulated and changed. The CSA was founded on Southern principles including independence and the ability to continue their way of life. That may have included slavery (in a very minor way) but the Civil War was fought mainly on the grounds of States' Rights, slavery only becoming a real issue connected to the Civil War after the Emancipation Proclamation. The flag of the Confederacy, the stars and bars (not the battle flag you see associated with every red neck loser in the USA) is not a racist symbol, nor is it a symbol of hate. The CSA V.P. did not say the flag he fought for was a symbol for racist hatred, did he?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

Sorry, where was that goalpost, again? I'm happy to kick the ball through it if you'll stop moving it for a bit.

[Dyakovo]

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

Something like five bucks in taxes a year.

[citation needed]

[-The West Coast-]

For an adult, you surprise me with this sort of asinine rebuttal.

Read the fucking thread. Your claims have been shown to be bullshit numerous times.

You're really funny when you're angry, Dyakovo. :~)

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

Way to believe everything you read, bro. Sources can be manipulated and changed. The CSA was founded on Southern principles including independence and the ability to continue their way of life. That may have included slavery (in a very minor way) but the Civil War was fought mainly on the grounds of States' Rights, slavery only becoming a real issue connected to the Civil War after the Emancipation Proclamation. The flag of the Confederacy, the stars and bars (not the battle flag you see associated with every red neck loser in the USA) is not a racist symbol, nor is it a symbol of hate. The CSA V.P. did not say the flag he fought for was a symbol for racist hatred, did he?

He said that the immediate cause of the secession was slavery. Therefore, the flag was a symbol of those fighting for the right to maintain ownership of black slaves (the only form of slavery explicitly protected in the Constitution of the C.S.A.).

So the Cornerstone speech, the secession documents of several states, and the Confederate Constitution itself have all been manipulated and changed?

[Dyakovo]

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

Way to believe everything you read, bro. Sources can be manipulated and changed. The CSA was founded on Southern principles including independence and the ability to continue their way of life.

Principles like "people are property" and their 'way of life' was "being (or aspiring to be) slave-owning scumbags".

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Way to read the thread and the cited sources where the vp of the confederacy says that the csa was founded primarily for slavery and racism.

Way to believe everything you read, bro. Sources can be manipulated and changed. The CSA was founded on Southern principles including independence and the ability to continue their way of life. That may have included slavery (in a very minor way) but the Civil War was fought mainly on the grounds of States' Rights, slavery only becoming a real issue connected to the Civil War after the Emancipation Proclamation. The flag of the Confederacy, the stars and bars (not the battle flag you see associated with every red neck loser in the USA) is not a racist symbol, nor is it a symbol of hate. The CSA V.P. did not say the flag he fought for was a symbol for racist hatred, did he?

What. What. Is it just me or did this guy say that quoting a primary source as evidence of that source's policy in politics. Just look back a few pages, "bro". I cited my source and provided the relevant quotes from the corner stone speech. And no, not in so many words I suppose. Does Kim Jong Un say that he's a brutal dictator? No, because no leader would say something so clearly negative even if it was true.

[Llamalandia]

You are right.

They started a fucking war over tea. Don't even try to explain that shit with morals.

They started a war because they were paying tax to a government without any representation or say over their destiny being given in return.

The same cannot be said of the South, who were well represented in the legislature, and who had provided numerous presidents through the years.

True in fact the whole 3/5 clause actually meant that the south was overrepresented in the house. So if anything the south was fighting taxation despite more than adequate representation. Of course it's interesting to note that we no longer rely on excise/tariffs for our tax base so In some ways the 16th amendment ended up giving the south what it wanted in part on taxes.

That said the tarriffs were targeted to disproportionately fall on south agriculture.

[Dyakovo]

Read the fucking thread. Your claims have been shown to be bullshit numerous times.

You're really funny when you're angry, Dyakovo. :~)

Not sure how you'd know that since I'm not angry, but okay.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Read the fucking thread. Your claims have been shown to be bullshit numerous times.

You're really funny when you're angry, Dyakovo. :~)

He comes across as mildly annoyed to me at best. I can't speak for the man, but can't imagine that he'd find your pathetic arguments (ones already repeatedly disproven) to be worth actual anger.

[-The West Coast-]

Way to believe everything you read, bro. Sources can be manipulated and changed. The CSA was founded on Southern principles including independence and the ability to continue their way of life. That may have included slavery (in a very minor way) but the Civil War was fought mainly on the grounds of States' Rights, slavery only becoming a real issue connected to the Civil War after the Emancipation Proclamation. The flag of the Confederacy, the stars and bars (not the battle flag you see associated with every red neck loser in the USA) is not a racist symbol, nor is it a symbol of hate. The CSA V.P. did not say the flag he fought for was a symbol for racist hatred, did he?

He said that the immediate cause of the secession was slavery. Therefore, the flag was a symbol of those fighting for the right to maintain ownership of black slaves (the only form of slavery explicitly protected in the Constitution of the C.S.A.).

So the Cornerstone speech, the secession documents of several states, and the Confederate Constitution itself have all been manipulated and changed?

Gosh, that's a funny thing to believe. A funny and very illogical thing at that. The flag of the Confederacy was not sewn together to solely say, "fuck niggers! yeehaw," but it was to defend their rights as men in the south to live their lives the way their fathers and their grandfathers lived. They fought for States' Rights most of all, and slavery was a secondary goal that wished to maintain as it was what made their economy function.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

He said that the immediate cause of the secession was slavery. Therefore, the flag was a symbol of those fighting for the right to maintain ownership of black slaves (the only form of slavery explicitly protected in the Constitution of the C.S.A.).

So the Cornerstone speech, the secession documents of several states, and the Confederate Constitution itself have all been manipulated and changed?

Gosh, that's a funny thing to believe. A funny and very illogical thing at that. The flag of the Confederacy was not sewn together to solely say, "fuck niggers! yeehaw," but it was to defend their rights as men in the south to live their lives the way their fathers and their grandfathers lived. They fought for States' Rights most of all, and slavery was a secondary goal that wished to maintain as it was what made their economy function.

The way that their fathers and grandfathers lived as slaveowners.

Tell me, if they were such fans of states' rights, why did they pursue victory in the Dred Scott decision, and insist upon enforcement of the Fugitive Slave Act?

[Farnhamia]

He said that the immediate cause of the secession was slavery. Therefore, the flag was a symbol of those fighting for the right to maintain ownership of black slaves (the only form of slavery explicitly protected in the Constitution of the C.S.A.).

So the Cornerstone speech, the secession documents of several states, and the Confederate Constitution itself have all been manipulated and changed?

Gosh, that's a funny thing to believe. A funny and very illogical thing at that. The flag of the Confederacy was not sewn together to solely say, "fuck niggers! yeehaw," but it was to defend their rights as men in the south to live their lives the way their fathers and their grandfathers lived. They fought for States' Rights most of all, and slavery was a secondary goal that wished to maintain as it was what made their economy function.

The only right the Confederacy was fighting for was the right to own other people as property. "States rights" didn't come into it until late in the war when a desperate Jefferson Davis tried to convince the French and British that slavery wasn't an issue and that the Confederacy would meet any conditions if they could only get international recognition.