The Confederate battle flag

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Butler/servant class after industrialization...I can only assume...

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.

The south did have industries. How did Gen. Sherman destroy the railroads if the south was the ass backward society you imagined it to be. The magic wand of the industrial revolution didn't do shit to stop slavery.

[Dracoria]

My point is if the North wanted to do things right it should have been there for at least 50 years or longer, but alas the US gets bored easy and leaves before the job is done...

You do realize it wasn't a matter of the North wanting to "do things right", right?
The end of Reconstruction was basically the product of a backroom deal to hand the Republicans the presidency in 1877. The "US" as a democratic whole had basically nothing to do with it.

It was a nasty election-year mess. The Republican candidate won the Electoral College, the Democrat claimed victory in popular votes. To keep from a major political crisis, an agreement was made where the Republican got the office, but Reconstruction was effectively ended as the southern Democrats wanted.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

So we should have continued a military occupation of the South for fifty years in the face of the growing resentment of the populace?

West Germany didn't mind and Japan probably hated us, but America did the right thing and stayed till the job was done.

When it comes to Vietnam,

Not a job worth doing in the first place.

Iraq and Afghanistan I believe we left much to early and listened to the general population instead of finishing the job.

Yeah, it was really a mistake to be governed by democratic processes in those instances in the face of pointless, ruinously expensive conflicts that were gaining us nothing and getting our soldiers killed.

You do realize it wasn't a matter of the North wanting to "do things right", right?
The end of Reconstruction was basically the product of a backroom deal to hand the Republicans the presidency in 1877. The "US" as a democratic whole had basically nothing to do with it.

It was a nasty election-year mess. The Republican candidate won the Electoral College, the Democrat claimed victory in popular votes. To keep from a major political crisis, an agreement was made where the Republican got the office, but Reconstruction was effectively ended as the southern Democrats wanted.

Thank you for clarifying my statement and saving me from the inevitable explanation.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

West Germany didn't mind and Japan probably hated us, but America did the right thing and stayed till the job was done.

When it comes to Vietnam,

Not a job worth doing in the first place.

Iraq and Afghanistan I believe we left much to early and listened to the general population instead of finishing the job.

Yeah, it was really a mistake to be governed by democratic processes in those instances in the face of pointless, ruinously expensive conflicts that were gaining us nothing and getting our soldiers killed.

It was a nasty election-year mess. The Republican candidate won the Electoral College, the Democrat claimed victory in popular votes. To keep from a major political crisis, an agreement was made where the Republican got the office, but Reconstruction was effectively ended as the southern Democrats wanted.

Thank you for clarifying my statement and saving me from the inevitable explanation.

It is like sending thousands of troops to a meat grinder, and saying that we need to continue to commit more troops so that the meat grinder will eventually clog.

[Master Shake]

Butler/servant class after industrialization...I can only assume...

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.

I agree.

The south did have industries. How did Gen. Sherman destroy the railroads if the south was the ass backward society you imagined it to be. The magic wand of the industrial revolution didn't do shit to stop slavery.

Also railroads don't symbolize a highly industrialized nation. They just help move people and merchandise from point a to point b.

The South had a lot of ports and rivers so it really didn't need that many railways...

[Dracoria]

Butler/servant class after industrialization...I can only assume...

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.

The Southerners, in particular the Plantation owners with their massive investments in slaves and land, avoided industrialization as it would require reinvesting their capital and probably coming out behind. No, no, the world would need King Cotton forever, they didn't need steelworks and machine shops.

Cut to the mid 1860s when they were armoring gunboats with bales of cotton because they lacked the steel to do it right.

[Almighty Russian states of Godly People]

Let the South have their colored cloth,

It will be their last resistance when Canada invades the whole goddamn place,
because, y'kno, extra flags that can be painted white will prove very useful.




CANADIAN OCCUPATION 2069!

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Butler/servant class after industrialization...I can only assume...

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.
But I also believe that there would have been a "butler/servant class after the end of slavery in I think around 1880 1920.

Not enough to keep them from forbidding the outlawing it in the Constitution.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.

I agree.

The south did have industries. How did Gen. Sherman destroy the railroads if the south was the ass backward society you imagined it to be. The magic wand of the industrial revolution didn't do shit to stop slavery.

Also railroads don't symbolize a highly industrialized nation. They just help move people and merchandise from point a to point b.

The South had a lot of ports and rivers so it really didn't need that many railways...

It has industries in the cities, it had railroads, and it had various other features of the industrial revolution. It may not have been as industrial as the north, but it is inaccurate to say that there was no industry at all, or that the industrial revolution has yet to occur there. It has, and slavery still persisted.

[Cannot think of a name]

Butler/servant class after industrialization...I can only assume...

When the industrial revolution hit the south I think slavery would have slowly died out.
Also I think that there would have been pressure from non slaveholding nations to end it.
The south already had a prominent abolition movement at the time from amung high ranking confederate officials.
But I also believe that there would have been a "butler/servant class after the end of slavery in I think around 1880 1920.

"I tire so of hearing people say, Let things take their course. Tomorrow is another day. I do not need my freedom when I'm dead. I cannot live on tomorrow's bread."

[Master Shake]

West Germany didn't mind and Japan probably hated us, but America did the right thing and stayed till the job was done.

When it comes to Vietnam,

Not a job worth doing in the first place.

Iraq and Afghanistan I believe we left much to early and listened to the general population instead of finishing the job.

Yeah, it was really a mistake to be governed by democratic processes in those instances in the face of pointless, ruinously expensive conflicts that were gaining us nothing and getting our soldiers killed.

Getting a beach head(Vietnam) for an invasion of communist Asian was not "worth it"?

Yeah Democracy works real well in Iraq. I think there is a reason ISIS has made Iraq its bitch...

We should have found a dictator to install instead in 2006...

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You do realize it wasn't a matter of the North wanting to "do things right", right?
The end of Reconstruction was basically the product of a backroom deal to hand the Republicans the presidency in 1877. The "US" as a democratic whole had basically nothing to do with it.

It was a nasty election-year mess. The Republican candidate won the Electoral College, the Democrat claimed victory in popular votes.

Thank God we never had to deal with THAT kind of nonsense again, eh?

[Nazi Flower Power]

West Virginia is south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Wait, so some dude from a state that formed because it didn't want to be part of the CSA wrote a song about how being proud of the CSA isn't really racist?

Evidently. I really don't know why he thought this was a good idea.

[Cannot think of a name]

Wait, so some dude from a state that formed because it didn't want to be part of the CSA wrote a song about how being proud of the CSA isn't really racist?

Evidently. I really don't know why he thought this was a good idea.

It was the 19th century's If I Did It...

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Wait, so some dude from a state that formed because it didn't want to be part of the CSA wrote a song about how being proud of the CSA isn't really racist?

Evidently. I really don't know why he thought this was a good idea.

There are some strange people in this world.

[Master Shake]

Let the South have their colored cloth,

It will be their last resistance when Canada invades the whole goddamn place,
because, y'kno, extra flags that can be painted white will prove very useful.




CANADIAN OCCUPATION 2069!

Well NYC is already raising white flags on the Brooklyn Bridge...damn you Canadians are sneaky...lol

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Evidently. I really don't know why he thought this was a good idea.

It was the 19th century's If I Did It...

21st century, actually.

[Cannot think of a name]

It was the 19th century's If I Did It...

21st century, actually.

Fuck, I lost the thread, I thought we were still talking about the book...

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Not a job worth doing in the first place.

Yeah, it was really a mistake to be governed by democratic processes in those instances in the face of pointless, ruinously expensive conflicts that were gaining us nothing and getting our soldiers killed.

Getting a beach head(Vietnam) for an invasion of communist Asian was not "worth it"?

...Okay, first, an invasion of "communist Asia" was never an actual plan outside of maybe the John Birch society. Second, no, it clearly wasn't worth it. Look at what happened to Vietnam after we left - they ostensibly went communist, invaded their fellow communists in Cambodia, got invaded by other fellow communists from China, then promptly went capitalist and are now our valued trading partners in the area and serve as a local bulwark against the Chinese, whom they hate.
Fuck, you could make the argument that in the long run, we actually WON in Vietnam.

Yeah Democracy works real well in Iraq. I think there is a reason ISIS has made Iraq its bitch...

Because of a complex nexus of reasons, involving events and developments in Syria as well as the endemic corruption and democratic inexperience in the country, coupled with underlying ethno-religious tensions?

We should have found a dictator to install instead in 2006...

...You're not one for "facts", or"logic", are you?
Anyway, this is a threadjack. Done discussing this now.

[Dakini]

As I made mention before...The KKK ruined the image of the flag and got it a racist reputation...

The fact that it is the flag of the Confederacy, which existed only to preserve the South's particular institution, ruined its image.

Ask any foreigner about the flag and they will say it is a symbol of rebellion...it is due to that person not knowing about the KKK...

Ask any foreigner about the flag and they will say "what the fuck is that thing" or "wasn't it that one flag of the racist bit of America during the civil war?".

Uh... I'm a foreigner (as I stated many times in this thread, I'm from Canada). I apparently know a lot more about the US civil war than certain high school drop outs around here.

People who carry or wear the flag nowadays definitely give the impression of being racist.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

21st century, actually.

Fuck, I lost the thread, I thought we were still talking about the book...

Understood. We've been everywhere from West Virginia to Canada to San Diego over the past several pages....

And now I have that Johnny Cash song stuck in my head.

[Dakini]

... I forgot that being Canadian counts as being foreign to America.

I live really close to the states, and have visited often, so I tend to forget that we're seperate from time to time.

But yeah, I'm foreign to America as well.

CSA military flag looks pro-slavery to me.

The CSA itself? Racist shithole.

So, based on the actions of people living in the South a 150 years ago, you feel that anyone who flies the flag is racist?

Better go to Germany with that attitude...you'll fit right in considering they still have to listen to people blame them for WW2....

If I saw someone flying the Nazi flag, I'd guess that they're racist too.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

The fact that it is the flag of the Confederacy, which existed only to preserve the South's particular institution, ruined its image.



Ask any foreigner about the flag and they will say "what the fuck is that thing" or "wasn't it that one flag of the racist bit of America during the civil war?".

Uh... I'm a foreigner (as I stated many times in this thread, I'm from Canada). I apparently know a lot more about the US civil war than certain high school drop outs around here.

People who carry or wear the flag nowadays definitely give the impression of being racist.

I'm not sure if the Confederate flag would be easily recognisable to, say, a high school student in the interior regions of China.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

21st century, actually.

Fuck, I lost the thread, I thought we were still talking about the book...

I still thought we were talking about Music.

[Cannot think of a name]

And now I have that Johnny Cash song stuck in my head.

Goddammit.




I've been everywhere, man...


Dammit.