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Advice for a highschooler.

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Caninope
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Founded: Nov 26, 2008
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:49 am

Elemental North wrote:
Caninope wrote:Besides the fact that laws rooted in religion doesn't necessarily mean that they're only societal norms, I'd also like to point out that this is a bullshit claim.


Then provide counter evidence that will prove me incorrect.

The Doom Book. Despite the fact that the Doom Book attempts to mix in Christian conceptions of the law, it's largely a collection of pre-existing legal customs of the Saxons and their germanic ancestors. This independence of secular law from canonical law was only further boosted by Henry II's creation of the "true" common law system, which incidentally further reduced the power of canonical law. While the death of Archbishop Becket would later curb some of Henry II's attempts to reduce the Church's power, in the long run, the system of stare decisis and independent judicial reasoning (the laws under this system originated from the bench from judges acting under the authority of the monarch). This is, of course, ignoring the fact that the Anglican church did not even exist during the reign of Henry II.

The relationship between secular and canonical law was often messy and complicated, especially in England, and you just painted it with a very broad brush. Don't do so.

Also, I am assuming you meant to put a "the" in between the they're and only parts of your sentence. So to answer that; no they are not the ONLY societal norms but they are the ones that can get you sent to jail for not conforming to, which thus makes them the most integral and severe.

Then you assume wrong. I said, "laws are not only societal norms". I'm challenging the very fundamental assumption you made, which is the idea that laws originate from only societal norms and not other more abstract thought processes (such as ethical reasoning or policy analyses).
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Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
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The Treorai
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Postby The Treorai » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:49 am

There is so much wrong with this reasoning, it's almost hilariously bad.
Elemental North wrote:Most laws are rooted in common law, which is based off of laws established by the Anglican Church, which were based off the bible, which dictates they way in which you must live your life and is accepted as such to be governed by social institutions that reach millions every Sunday. They're called churches.

lol no. Laws are not Laws because the bible said so. Laws existed before the formalization of any organized religion, and are the reason said religions have those laws. The reason the Jews had the commandments were because the Egyptians had laws. The reason the Egyptians had laws were because the Babylonians had the Code of Hammurabi. The reason the Babylonians had the Code of Hammurabi was because Neolithic Mesopotamian groups of mountain people agreed not to fucking brain each other with rocks, and to save it for the other group of ass wipes stealing your olives. Not because they had a long standing tradition of not killing each other, or because it is what was popular at the time. Because it was formalized (or, at least as formalized as something could have been at the time) and agreed upon by an authority of the group (in this case, likely the strongest male or group there of in each particular group of mountain people).


So you, Law does =social nor, it's not a false equivalency.

You have not proved anything. A social norm would be Christianity. It is common place to practice it in the vast majority of the world, but, at least in most nations, it is not required. A law would be the almost universal requirement of taxes, as it is necessary to the continued stable functioning of the society (or societies) in which it is being practiced, and enforced by a formal authority that has instituted such a rule. Thereby it is a law, not a social norm. Because there is a distinction, it is false to say one is equivalent to the other.
And if there was a law made that you could not wear yellow if everyone else wore red would you break it?

No, as I am not inclined to wearing yellow. I would most likely wear green or orange, as those are my favorite colors. Nice strawman though.
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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:52 am

Elemental North wrote:
Elemental North wrote:
Then provide counter evidence that will prove me incorrect.

Also, I am assuming you meant to put a "the" in between the they're and only parts of your sentence. So to answer that; no they are not the ONLY societal norms but they are the ones that can get you sent to jail for not conforming to, which thus makes them the most integral and severe.


Also, from Eric Posner and the Harvard University Press:

"What is the role of law in a society in which order is maintained mostly through social norms, trust, and nonlegal sanctions? Eric Posner argues that social norms are sometimes desirable yet sometimes odious, and that the law is critical to enhancing good social norms and undermining bad ones. But he also argues that the proper regulation of social norms is a delicate and complex task, and that current understanding of social norms is inadequate for guiding judges and lawmakers. What is needed, and what this book offers, is a model of the relationship between law and social norms. The model shows that people’s concern with establishing cooperative relationships leads them to engage in certain kinds of imitative behavior. The resulting behavioral patterns are called social norms.

Posner applies the model to several areas of law that involve the regulation of social norms, including laws governing gift-giving and nonprofit organizations; family law; criminal law; laws governing speech, voting, and discrimination; and contract law. Among the engaging questions posed are: Would the legalization of gay marriage harm traditional married couples? Is it beneficial to shame criminals? Why should the law reward those who make charitable contributions? Would people vote more if non-voters were penalized? The author approaches these questions using the tools of game theory, but his arguments are simply stated and make no technical demands on the reader."

This proves nothing- you keep referring to laws as societal norms, when that is in fact a false equivalency. There are multiple reasons why (for one, I just argued there are other sources of law than just societal norms but there's also the problems of assuming that government and society are largely synonymous), but the fact that your article analyzes how laws impact societal law means that it is holding law independent of societal norms, which goes directly against your silly claim that laws are societal norms.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Alcase
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Founded: Sep 05, 2011
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Postby Alcase » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:53 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:You know that whole thing 7th graders say: "I won't do drugs and have sex and drink in high school". It's bullshit.

Secondly, do not date. Highly overrated and really just a thing to look cool, unless you really, really feel strongly for someone.

Try to juggle what you do. Between homework and the other shit you might be doing, you will have to make choices and there is not enough time to get everything done.

Get used to the depressive cog-in-a-machine feeling that grinds through a week of wake up-do homework-go to school-sports/extracurricular-eat-homework-sleep-repeat.

Avoid "that guy". The guy who think's he's god's gift to the world. You'll know the type if you see him. The, to use Marxian terminology, bourgeoisie of the social hierarchy of the classroom. Face it, you're more than likely a proletarian in this analogy. Find some friends with similar interests and hang out, and give the middle finger to anyone who is a dick. Don't chase after the "Kool Kids Klub"...just get your own friends group. Whether you have some subculture you adhere to or not, find friends and have a group of them.

Second thing on drugs and booze: Do not do them at any school-related events unless you KNOW you will not get caught. If your school drug tests, wait until afterwards to smoke (duh). Also, don't be the dumbass who drops his can of chew in the middle of class.

If you are doing a sport, don't feed into the jock mentality or let those simple minded individuals who do get to you.

At least try parties/dances/raves and see if they are your thing. My personal experience: only when alcohol is present.

Try to get at least six hours of sleep every night. 6-9 is perfect, considering the busy schedule.

If you go to a private school like me, do NOT take Religion class seriously. Do just enough to get by, it's an easy A if you repeat what your teacher tells you.

Honors classes can be tough if you are not up to it. The difference between Honors and AP is very little (I took AP World History as a Freshman), besides the fucking huge test at the end of the year.

Teachers can either be assholes or very easygoing. There is no middle ground. Lay low until you find the cool teachers. Avoid the power tripping Principal.

Clubs. Clubs are cool. Clubs are fun ways to meet people. Start a club if you want. Join a few you like.

Constantly watch your stress. Try to remain calm and civil as much as possible. Marijuana greatly helps with this, if you are into that. If not, just don't overdo homework or worry about things.

Prioritize. Do things that affect you the most first. If you have a low grade in English, write the paper before Science homework, etc.

Be open minded about stuff. High School years can be very, very strange and disturbing at times.

Bullies can go fuck themselves. Don't do it or be around it. Same for fights. Lot's of schools have been cracking down on fighting, so if you get in one, end it quick. Run away or break something over the guy's head.

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Blekksprutia
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Postby Blekksprutia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:56 am

Don't worry, it can't be worse than middle school.
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Alexanda
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Postby Alexanda » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:57 am

Blekksprutia wrote:Don't worry, it can't be worse than middle school.

I don't understand the Elementary, Middle and High School business.
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United States of Natan
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Postby United States of Natan » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:59 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:You know that whole thing 7th graders say: "I won't do drugs and have sex and drink in high school". It's bullshit.

Secondly, do not date. Highly overrated and really just a thing to look cool, unless you really, really feel strongly for someone.

Try to juggle what you do. Between homework and the other shit you might be doing, you will have to make choices and there is not enough time to get everything done.

Get used to the depressive cog-in-a-machine feeling that grinds through a week of wake up-do homework-go to school-sports/extracurricular-eat-homework-sleep-repeat.

Avoid "that guy". The guy who think's he's god's gift to the world. You'll know the type if you see him. The, to use Marxian terminology, bourgeoisie of the social hierarchy of the classroom. Face it, you're more than likely a proletarian in this analogy. Find some friends with similar interests and hang out, and give the middle finger to anyone who is a dick. Don't chase after the "Kool Kids Klub"...just get your own friends group. Whether you have some subculture you adhere to or not, find friends and have a group of them.

Second thing on drugs and booze: Do not do them at any school-related events unless you KNOW you will not get caught. If your school drug tests, wait until afterwards to smoke (duh). Also, don't be the dumbass who drops his can of chew in the middle of class.

If you are doing a sport, don't feed into the jock mentality or let those simple minded individuals who do get to you.

At least try parties/dances/raves and see if they are your thing. My personal experience: only when alcohol is present.

Try to get at least six hours of sleep every night. 6-9 is perfect, considering the busy schedule.

If you go to a private school like me, do NOT take Religion class seriously. Do just enough to get by, it's an easy A if you repeat what your teacher tells you.

Honors classes can be tough if you are not up to it. The difference between Honors and AP is very little (I took AP World History as a Freshman), besides the fucking huge test at the end of the year.

Teachers can either be assholes or very easygoing. There is no middle ground. Lay low until you find the cool teachers. Avoid the power tripping Principal.

Clubs. Clubs are cool. Clubs are fun ways to meet people. Start a club if you want. Join a few you like.

Constantly watch your stress. Try to remain calm and civil as much as possible. Marijuana greatly helps with this, if you are into that. If not, just don't overdo homework or worry about things.

Prioritize. Do things that affect you the most first. If you have a low grade in English, write the paper before Science homework, etc.

Be open minded about stuff. High School years can be very, very strange and disturbing at times.

Bullies can go fuck themselves. Don't do it or be around it. Same for fights. Lot's of schools have been cracking down on fighting, so if you get in one, end it quick. Run away or break something over the guy's head.

don't promote drug use to a highschooler!
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Blekksprutia
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Postby Blekksprutia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:59 am

Also: because I forgot this.
Unless you have a seriously strong passion for a class, choose your classes based on how much you like the teacher instead of how much you like the content. The teacher is so much moar important.

Also, um, don't be an asshat to other people.
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Arg: Blekk does that. The topics of same sex marriage and the human race's fight against idiocy motivate him to write some truly impressive and glorious rants that deserve to be remembered and sigged.
Zott: I see our Blekky has discovered the joys of amphetamines.
Horus: blekky you are blekky i am horus
Rio: Blekky you are the best person on this website. Figuratively, kiss me.
Blekky is like a bunny. He looks adorable, yet he might bite you till it hurts.
Veccy: you're the worst blekky
The Balkens: Blekk does that, he has been taught by NSG's greatest practitioners of Snark to Snark combat.
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Blekksprutia
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Postby Blekksprutia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:59 am

Alexanda wrote:
Blekksprutia wrote:Don't worry, it can't be worse than middle school.

I don't understand the Elementary, Middle and High School business.

where I live, middle is 6, 7, 8 and High is 9, 10, 11, 12
KILLUGON and BERNIE SANDERS and my moirail, ERIDEL.
Founder of Kotturheim, home to my GAY POLECATS, who are TOO FABULOUS FOR YOU.
Arg: Blekk does that. The topics of same sex marriage and the human race's fight against idiocy motivate him to write some truly impressive and glorious rants that deserve to be remembered and sigged.
Zott: I see our Blekky has discovered the joys of amphetamines.
Horus: blekky you are blekky i am horus
Rio: Blekky you are the best person on this website. Figuratively, kiss me.
Blekky is like a bunny. He looks adorable, yet he might bite you till it hurts.
Veccy: you're the worst blekky
The Balkens: Blekk does that, he has been taught by NSG's greatest practitioners of Snark to Snark combat.
Napki: Marry me, Blekk
Aeq: Blekk, you are Jesus!!!

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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:00 am

Conscentia wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:I think the whole "pick on freshmen" thing is international, correct? [...]

Er, no. The word "freshmen" doesn't even exist in the UK in my experience.


Does Turd Form?

It still persists here as an idea despite practically everywhere using year nine to describe the first year of college these days.

Elemental North wrote:-Try and get to know EVERYONE. Yes EVERYONE. All that advice of "find your clique and fuck everyone else" is shit. It only makes High School more miserable. I was friends with the jocks, the plastics, the nerds, the cholos, the emos, the rockers, the stoners, everyone. Thus no one fucked with me because they were afraid of who it was in another clique they would piss off by doing so.


Ignoring the clique thing which I never noticed as being a concept relevant to my experience, knowing more people helps a lot for all sorts of reasons. Even if you're not fond of a person not being a dick towards them whether or not they're around is ultimately beneficial. And, hey, eventually your opinion can change significantly.

Othelos wrote:Try to avoid getting clique'y (especially in the beginning of hs) and try to hang out with a lot of different people.


Yes, do this. I spent the first few weeks treating the social scene as somewhat applicable to the way it was in primary. A handful of proper friends* and then quite a few people that I would primarily talk to in and around the classroom. Eventually I ended up with two main groups of friends and split my time between them... this was a much better system. The pattern I followed was get to know someone in class and then associate with them for a bit during lunch and stuff. Randomly wandering around and joining in with groups with mutual interests works wonders too.

Seating Plans can be a good way of meeting people initially.

*Of the people I spent the most time with at primary a grand total of me was at the same secondary despite the vast majority of my primary going to the same secondary as me.

Alexanda wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:


I will add that even unpaid work is worthwhile. Try to get involved in the sort of occupation you're aiming your education towards, even if it's a menial role or even an unpaid one. Could save you a lot of time and money, not to train up for some job you don't actually want when you get it.

I haven't ever understood the student job thing.
Does one get a job and work a few days a week, and study the others?


One gets a job and works there after school a few days a week or in the weekend. Those that don't have jobs bump into the ones that do while they're on shift as well. Some workplaces may have significant numbers from the same cohort on the books at once (quite a lot of my friends, for instance, were working... typically simultaneously... at a local supermarket).

Othelos wrote:
Alexanda wrote:Exactly.

What kind of high schools did you guys go to? I thought the popularity thing was over after the 8th grade.


I think all schools will end up with loosely defined groups of friends. People in Group A may well consider people in Group B to be the popular ones (potentially due to more limited interaction) while Group B considers Group C to be the popular ones (potentially due to more interaction). Groups A, B and C coexist with no problems. This is possibly due to relative geographic isolation. If I was in Group A then I rarely saw members of B and C during morning teas and lunch (even in year twelve when we couldn't wander out to the dairy or wherever at will).

Estado Paulista wrote:Drop out and start doing hard drugs.


This reminded me of an amusing exchange between Ifreann and Nadkor prompted by an insane map.
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Elemental North
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Postby Elemental North » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:00 am

Caninope wrote:
Elemental North wrote:
Also, from Eric Posner and the Harvard University Press:

"What is the role of law in a society in which order is maintained mostly through social norms, trust, and nonlegal sanctions? Eric Posner argues that social norms are sometimes desirable yet sometimes odious, and that the law is critical to enhancing good social norms and undermining bad ones. But he also argues that the proper regulation of social norms is a delicate and complex task, and that current understanding of social norms is inadequate for guiding judges and lawmakers. What is needed, and what this book offers, is a model of the relationship between law and social norms. The model shows that people’s concern with establishing cooperative relationships leads them to engage in certain kinds of imitative behavior. The resulting behavioral patterns are called social norms.

Posner applies the model to several areas of law that involve the regulation of social norms, including laws governing gift-giving and nonprofit organizations; family law; criminal law; laws governing speech, voting, and discrimination; and contract law. Among the engaging questions posed are: Would the legalization of gay marriage harm traditional married couples? Is it beneficial to shame criminals? Why should the law reward those who make charitable contributions? Would people vote more if non-voters were penalized? The author approaches these questions using the tools of game theory, but his arguments are simply stated and make no technical demands on the reader."

This proves nothing- you keep referring to laws as societal norms, when that is in fact a false equivalency. There are multiple reasons why (for one, I just argued there are other sources of law than just societal norms but there's also the problems of assuming that government and society are largely synonymous), but the fact that your article analyzes how laws impact societal law means that it is holding law independent of societal norms, which goes directly against your silly claim that laws are societal norms.


It's literally from a book called "Laws and Societal Norms" and the article analyzes how laws influence societal norms and reinforce good ones and put down bad ones. Literally what I have been saying all along.

And to the one arguing Hamurabi's Code, we are not going to argue the differences between Judaism and Puritan/Anglican inspired Christianity. That's just too deep of a cesspool to delve into wouldn't you agree?
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Blekksprutia
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Postby Blekksprutia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:00 am

Elemental North wrote:snip

I can haz threadjack?
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Founder of Kotturheim, home to my GAY POLECATS, who are TOO FABULOUS FOR YOU.
Arg: Blekk does that. The topics of same sex marriage and the human race's fight against idiocy motivate him to write some truly impressive and glorious rants that deserve to be remembered and sigged.
Zott: I see our Blekky has discovered the joys of amphetamines.
Horus: blekky you are blekky i am horus
Rio: Blekky you are the best person on this website. Figuratively, kiss me.
Blekky is like a bunny. He looks adorable, yet he might bite you till it hurts.
Veccy: you're the worst blekky
The Balkens: Blekk does that, he has been taught by NSG's greatest practitioners of Snark to Snark combat.
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Elemental North
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Postby Elemental North » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:02 am

Blekksprutia wrote:
Elemental North wrote:snip

I can haz threadjack?


It is a bit off course I would agree. This whole conversation and almost everyone in it.
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The Treorai
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Postby The Treorai » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:05 am

Elemental North wrote:And to the one arguing Hamurabi's Code, we are not going to argue the differences between Judaism and Puritan/Anglican inspired Christianity. That's just too deep of a cesspool to delve into wouldn't you agree?

Way to ignore my point [i]entirely.

For the record, no, I would not agree. They are both share essentially the same set of rules, at least on the fundamental level of regulatory agreement with god.
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Dumb Ideologies wrote:It's a situation intrinsic to the committed ideologue. Whenever one makes a counter-argument the goalposts seem not only to move in two dimensions but also float several hundred thousand miles above the pitch whilst wearing cast-iron earplugs.

Rainbows and Rivers wrote:Dictators blaming America for all their problems? That's new.

Caninope wrote:If I think in my mind that the book sitting in front of me is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows when it is in fact Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th Edition, then it doesn't make me any more objectively correct.

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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:05 am

Elemental North wrote:
Caninope wrote:This proves nothing- you keep referring to laws as societal norms, when that is in fact a false equivalency. There are multiple reasons why (for one, I just argued there are other sources of law than just societal norms but there's also the problems of assuming that government and society are largely synonymous), but the fact that your article analyzes how laws impact societal law means that it is holding law independent of societal norms, which goes directly against your silly claim that laws are societal norms.


It's literally from a book called "Laws and Societal Norms" and the article analyzes how laws influence societal norms and reinforce good ones and put down bad ones. Literally what I have been saying all along.

No, you've been equating laws and societal norms.

Not the same thing.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Elemental North
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Postby Elemental North » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:09 am

The Treorai wrote:
Elemental North wrote:And to the one arguing Hamurabi's Code, we are not going to argue the differences between Judaism and Puritan/Anglican inspired Christianity. That's just too deep of a cesspool to delve into wouldn't you agree?

Way to ignore my point [i]entirely.

For the record, no, I would not agree. They are both share essentially the same set of rules, at least on the fundamental level of regulatory agreement with god.


I'm done arguing you with you. Just done. You may throw your misinterpreted sense of religious influence on law at me all you please. I don't care. Why? Because I know I'm right, you know you're right. So we're both right.

Also, to offset your little schpeel on Hamuarbi's code, the origins of common law from the fucking Encyclopedia Britannica:

"The origin of the common law

The English common law originated in the early Middle Ages in the King’s Court (Curia Regis), a single royal court set up for most of the country at Westminster, near London. Like many other early legal systems, it did not originally consist of substantive rights but rather of procedural remedies. The working out of these remedies has, over time, produced the modern system in which rights are seen as primary over procedure. Until the late 19th century, English common law continued to be developed primarily by judges rather than legislators.

The common law of England was largely created in the period after the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Anglo-Saxons, especially after the accession of Alfred the Great (871), had developed a body of rules resembling those being used by the Germanic peoples of northern Europe. Local customs and social norms governed most matters, while the church played a large part in government. Crimes were treated as wrongs for which compensation was made to the victim."
Last edited by Elemental North on Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:10 am

TF2 Scout wrote:I'm entering highschool soon, and I was wondering what advice NS had for me. I'd appreciate the help.

spend the extra time to get the best grades you can. if you do well youll get money for college. free money is far better than money you have to pay back. make friends with other kids like you and youll be fine.
whatever

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The Southern Commonwealth
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Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
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Postby The Southern Commonwealth » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:10 am

I don't have the normal High school experience, I started to take college classes in the morning starting junior year through a program called Governor's School, I take at my regular school APs and DE Drafting even with all this I don't stress. The most important thing abut studying is find what works for you, I memorize all of my lectures while they are going on and take tons of notes but after that class finishes I don't look at them again. Also, it is amazing how easy standardized tests are if you don't panic and stress about them use a clear head and think. As for AP classes, I live in a college town so APs are big (a higher percent of our student take them than any other school) they are not as easy as Honors, Honors are a walk in the park. AP requires four pages of notes and reading the text book for most students. I cannot stress enough about the not doing drugs part, I have friends who started and now they are unable to go to college. When it comes to clubs National Honors Society looks good, and Key Club is internationally recognized.

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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:18 am

Elemental North wrote:*snip*

Once again, a short encyclopedic article, while useful, doesn't give the whole story.
I'm the Pope
Secretly CIA interns stomping out negative views of the US
Türkçe öğreniyorum ama zorluk var.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Elemental North
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Postby Elemental North » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:20 am

Caninope wrote:
Elemental North wrote:*snip*

Once again, a short encyclopedic article, while useful, doesn't give the whole story.


Then what would you like me to do? Do a god damn expose/master's thesis on the inter-religious effects of Christianity and Judaism on American and ancient English Common Law with a minor focus on the correlation of before-mentioned to societal norms and their sociological impact on modern day American society and the educational establishment for conformists?
Last edited by Elemental North on Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Treorai
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Posts: 3706
Founded: Jul 15, 2011
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Postby The Treorai » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:21 am

Elemental North wrote:
The Treorai wrote:Way to ignore my point [i]entirely.

For the record, no, I would not agree. They are both share essentially the same set of rules, at least on the fundamental level of regulatory agreement with god.


I'm done arguing you with you. Just done. You may throw your misinterpreted sense of religious influence on law at me all you please. I don't care. Why? Because I know I'm right, you know you're right. So we're both right.

Also, to offset your little schpeel on Hamuarbi's code, the origins of common law from the fucking Encyclopedia Britannica:

"The origin of the common law

The English common law originated in the early Middle Ages in the King’s Court (Curia Regis), a single royal court set up for most of the country at Westminster, near London. Like many other early legal systems, it did not originally consist of substantive rights but rather of procedural remedies. The working out of these remedies has, over time, produced the modern system in which rights are seen as primary over procedure. Until the late 19th century, English common law continued to be developed primarily by judges rather than legislators.

The common law of England was largely created in the period after the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Anglo-Saxons, especially after the accession of Alfred the Great (871), had developed a body of rules resembling those being used by the Germanic peoples of northern Europe. Local customs and social norms governed most matters, while the church played a large part in government. Crimes were treated as wrongs for which compensation was made to the victim."

Nice try, editing in the "Social Norms" part to make it seem like it corroborates your claim.

Elemental North wrote:I'm done arguing you with you. Just done. You may throw your misinterpreted sense of religious influence on law at me all you please. I don't care. Why? Because I know I'm right, you know you're right. So we're both right.

Also, to offset your little schpeel on Hamuarbi's code, the origins of common law from the fucking Encyclopedia Britannica:

"The origin of the common law

The English common law originated in the early Middle Ages in the King’s Court (Curia Regis), a single royal court set up for most of the country at Westminster, near London. Like many other early legal systems, it did not originally consist of substantive rights but rather of procedural remedies. The working out of these remedies has, over time, produced the modern system in which rights are seen as primary over procedure. Until the late 19th century, English common law continued to be developed primarily by judges rather than legislators.

The common law of England was largely created in the period after the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Anglo-Saxons, especially after the accession of Alfred the Great (871), had developed a body of rules resembling those being used by the Germanic peoples of northern Europe. Local customs governed most matters, while the church played a large part in government. Crimes were treated as wrongs for which compensation was made to the victim."


Anyways, we neither live under English common law, nor do we English local customs following the Norman Conquest, making your point moot.
GOD-KING OF ABRASIVENESS

Dumb Ideologies wrote:It's a situation intrinsic to the committed ideologue. Whenever one makes a counter-argument the goalposts seem not only to move in two dimensions but also float several hundred thousand miles above the pitch whilst wearing cast-iron earplugs.

Rainbows and Rivers wrote:Dictators blaming America for all their problems? That's new.

Caninope wrote:If I think in my mind that the book sitting in front of me is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows when it is in fact Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th Edition, then it doesn't make me any more objectively correct.

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The Treorai
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Founded: Jul 15, 2011
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Postby The Treorai » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:23 am

Caninope wrote:
Elemental North wrote:*snip*

Once again, a short encyclopedic article, while useful, doesn't give the whole story.

Beyond that he's manipulating it to make it seem as though it supports what he is saying, when in reality it has very little to do with his argument.
GOD-KING OF ABRASIVENESS

Dumb Ideologies wrote:It's a situation intrinsic to the committed ideologue. Whenever one makes a counter-argument the goalposts seem not only to move in two dimensions but also float several hundred thousand miles above the pitch whilst wearing cast-iron earplugs.

Rainbows and Rivers wrote:Dictators blaming America for all their problems? That's new.

Caninope wrote:If I think in my mind that the book sitting in front of me is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows when it is in fact Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th Edition, then it doesn't make me any more objectively correct.

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Elemental North
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Posts: 4646
Founded: Aug 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Elemental North » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:26 am

The Treorai wrote:
Caninope wrote:Once again, a short encyclopedic article, while useful, doesn't give the whole story.

Beyond that he's manipulating it to make it seem as though it supports what he is saying, when in reality it has very little to do with his argument.


Like I said, I'm done with you. We're both right remember?
NO. 1 TITTY INSPECTOR

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Caninope
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Posts: 24620
Founded: Nov 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:28 am

Elemental North wrote:
Caninope wrote:Once again, a short encyclopedic article, while useful, doesn't give the whole story.


Then what would you like me to do? Do a god damn expose/master's thesis on the inter-religious effects of Christianity and Judaism on American and ancient English Common Law with a minor focus on the correlation of before-mentioned to societal norms and their sociological impact on modern day American society and the educational establishment for conformists?

It's rather simple.

Stop claiming that religion was the source of law in Medieval England. It was a source of law, but it was not the only source of law, because it most definitely wasn't.
I'm the Pope
Secretly CIA interns stomping out negative views of the US
Türkçe öğreniyorum ama zorluk var.
Winner, Silver Medal for Debating
Co-Winner, Bronze Medal for Posting
Co-Winner, Zooke Goodwill Award

Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Caninope
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24620
Founded: Nov 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Caninope » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:29 am

Elemental North wrote:
The Treorai wrote:Beyond that he's manipulating it to make it seem as though it supports what he is saying, when in reality it has very little to do with his argument.


Like I said, I'm done with you. We're both right remember?

Oh no.

You made a false statement. You claimed that English common law derived from Anglican canon law. Ignoring the fact that the Anglican church did not yet exist, you're still wrong.
I'm the Pope
Secretly CIA interns stomping out negative views of the US
Türkçe öğreniyorum ama zorluk var.
Winner, Silver Medal for Debating
Co-Winner, Bronze Medal for Posting
Co-Winner, Zooke Goodwill Award

Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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