Christian Discussion Thread IV

[Bunkeranlage]

No of course not.
But the difference between beethoven's 5th and god is one has evidence that it exists, while the other doesn't.

That wasn't the issue in question.

The opinions aren't inherently negated. They are just not something we could trust.
The opinions are of the natur something that has no evidence to support that it even exists in the first place.

I'm not referring to Beethoven's symphony itself, but its esoterica and the opinions surrounding them.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

No of course not.
But the difference between beethoven's 5th and god is one has evidence that it exists, while the other doesn't.

That wasn't the issue in question.

The opinions aren't inherently negated. They are just not something we could trust.
The opinions are of the natur something that has no evidence to support that it even exists in the first place.

I'm not referring to Beethoven's symphony itself, but its esoterica and the opinions surrounding them.

Ah ok, well I must've read it wrong.
We're talking about perspectives, so yeah it is all subjective.

But the bible makes claims on truth. If truth is involved, then subjective interpretations shouldn't be the concern.
For the bible to be true, it has to be true on some objective level. Beethoven's 5th doesn't make claims on truth and tell symbolic stories.
It is music, music makes different people feel differently when they hear it.

[Bunkeranlage]

But the bible makes claims on truth. If truth is involved, then subjective interpretations shouldn't be the concern.

But objective truth is also subject to interpretation.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

But the bible makes claims on truth. If truth is involved, then subjective interpretations shouldn't be the concern.

But objective truth is also subject to interpretation.

True.
UUUGH, this melts my brain.

[Aelex]

But how exactly can anyone put pressure on the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, the universal and absolute head of the Catholic Church?

The same way a whole lot of people did in the past. Dude, I don't know how much I mentionned the Papacy in Avignon, but I'll do it again.
Still, to give you a point, in a way, you're quite right, now that the Papal States don't exist anymore and the Papacy completly and definetly abandonned any willingness to exercise a temporal power, it's quite true that they're way less reason to put pressure on the Pope.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

Not sure if you guys know this yet but Leonard Nimoy just died today

[Tarsonis Survivors]

In other words, everyone answers to someone.
Even the pope.

Assuming god exists, he probably answers to rococop Jesus or something more powerful than him that we don't know about.

God is an atheist. He doesn't believe in a higher power.

Technicallly,... And i mean TECHNICALLY... this makes him a LaVeyan Satanist. He believes himself to be God...which he is.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Omnipotence does encompass the ability to bring about what is contradictory. It is the quality of unlimited power.

Thank you for admitting this.
But if god is contradictory, he makes no sense.

As Augustine noted, (since this question has been around for thousands of years) the term all powerful, or omnipotent, is a mischaracterization of the word Almighty.

God is certainly Almighty, and one could even ascribe that as all powerful, but even the scope of omnipotence would be subject to semblance of logic an reason. Could God make himself not exist? I would imagine so. But could God create a triangle in which the sum of the angles equals more than 180 degrees? No, because that's nonsense.

[Aelex]

Not sure if you guys know this yet but Leonard Nimoy just died today

And?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Not sure if you guys know this yet but Leonard Nimoy just died today

And?

He's pretty big here in America, and his character Spock is a sort of hero to the Atheist community. Though I must stress that it is misplaced. Spock was a utilitarian, not a paragon of logical thinking, but I blame that on bad writing.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

Not sure if you guys know this yet but Leonard Nimoy just died today

And?

Just saying.
I assume you'd have more to say, but there is now a thread for it.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

And?

He's pretty big here in America, and his character Spock is a sort of hero to the Atheist community. Though I must stress that it is misplaced. Spock was a utilitarian, not a paragon of logical thinking, but I blame that on bad writing.

Hero of the atheist community? He's not really painted that way in the atheist community.
I prefer data.

Nimoy was a Jew according to what it says on Wikipedia.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

He's pretty big here in America, and his character Spock is a sort of hero to the Atheist community. Though I must stress that it is misplaced. Spock was a utilitarian, not a paragon of logical thinking, but I blame that on bad writing.

Hero of the atheist community? He's not really painted that way in the atheist community.
I prefer data.

Nimoy was a Jew according to what it says on Wikipedia.

Nimoy was Jewish. Spock was the hero. I mean maybe hero is too strong a word but he certain has a sort of veneration status among many atheists.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

Hero of the atheist community? He's not really painted that way in the atheist community.
I prefer data.

Nimoy was a Jew according to what it says on Wikipedia.

Nimoy was Jewish. Spock was the hero. I mean maybe hero is too strong a word but he certain has a sort of veneration status among many atheists.

Data should be that, and Spock should be second to him.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Nimoy was Jewish. Spock was the hero. I mean maybe hero is too strong a word but he certain has a sort of veneration status among many atheists.

Data should be that, and Spock should be second to him.

eh, splitting hair on opinions really.

[Aelex]

He's pretty big here in America, and his character Spock is a sort of hero to the Atheist community. Though I must stress that it is misplaced. Spock was a utilitarian, not a paragon of logical thinking, but I blame that on bad writing.

Thanks for the explication, I never was a fan of Star Trek (which is for me a bad T.V show with a bad scenario and caricaturals characters) but a death is always a sad thing.

Qu'il repose en paix.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

He's pretty big here in America, and his character Spock is a sort of hero to the Atheist community. Though I must stress that it is misplaced. Spock was a utilitarian, not a paragon of logical thinking, but I blame that on bad writing.

Thanks for the explication, I never was a fan of Star Trek (which is for me a bad T.V show with a bad scenario and caricaturals characters) but a death is always a sad thing.

Qu'il repose en paix.

The Original Series definitely was awful, though the movies were alright. (Star Trek VI continues to be one of, if not, my favorite Star Trek movie)

The later series Next Generation, Deep Space 9, etc I think are fantastic, and influenced me greatly. The Character Bashir on DS9 is probably the reason I believe in socialized medicine.

[Aelex]

The Original Series definitely was awful, though the movies were alright. (Star Trek VI continues to be one of, if not, my favorite Star Trek movie)

The later series Next Generation, Deep Space 9, etc I think are fantastic, and influenced me greatly. The Character Bashir on DS9 is probably the reason I believe in socialized medicine.

I if I can recommend you a good old tv show which I watched when I was a kid, there is Les Rois Maudits/The Accursed Kings.
The books (and the T.V show) both inspired really much G.R.R Martin for his own "Song of Ice and Fire"'s books.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

I'm not sure about others, but I don't go out of the way to actively claim that I'm right while everybody is wrong.

To add on, if we are to follow the logic that you have presented, then a huge portion of subjective interpretations cannot be taken as true. For example, how do you know that I am right when I say that Beethoven's 5th Symphony represents his willingness to overcome his disabilities and illnesses?

Normally, we would have people claiming "Oh, it represents this", "Oh, it represents that". However, we wouldn't have any way to find out what Beethoven really intended for the Symphony to symbolise, unless one were to speak to him. Thus, we wouldn't have any way to know for sure what he really intended. What we do know comes from various writings he left behind.

The fact that many people have conflicting opinions on the qualities and symbolisms of Beethoven's 5th doesn't create a negation of said opinions.

No of course not.
But the difference between beethoven's 5th and god is one has evidence that it exists, while the other doesn't.

There is evidence that God exists, it is all around us.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

Thank you for admitting this.
But if god is contradictory, he makes no sense.

As Augustine noted, (since this question has been around for thousands of years) the term all powerful, or omnipotent, is a mischaracterization of the word Almighty.

God is certainly Almighty, and one could even ascribe that as all powerful, but even the scope of omnipotence would be subject to semblance of logic an reason. Could God make himself not exist? I would imagine so. But could God create a triangle in which the sum of the angles equals more than 180 degrees? No, because that's nonsense.

I believe that God could rewrite reality in its entirety to create such a triangle. But it would be stupid and pointless.

[Pope Joan]

If god is so powerful, that must mean he is capable of anything right??
So does that mean he is capable of not existing?

Is he capable of creating a boulder so massive he can't lift it?


And if he exists outside what our perceptions are bound to, how do you have any clue or indication of him existing?

Do you honestly think that you can comprehend the power of God that created the universe, the universe that you don't fully understand?

In Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book "The Beginning" where he talks about Genesis and the origin of our earth, he confesses that it is absolutely impossible for any creature to posit absolutes about its creator.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Do you honestly think that you can comprehend the power of God that created the universe, the universe that you don't fully understand?

In Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book "The Beginning" where he talks about Genesis and the origin of our earth, he confesses that it is absolutely impossible for any creature to posit absolutes about its creator.

As I like to say, when discussing any facet of God, you're discussing a concept that can only really be understood by approximation. Like circling an airport and never landing.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

As Augustine noted, (since this question has been around for thousands of years) the term all powerful, or omnipotent, is a mischaracterization of the word Almighty.

God is certainly Almighty, and one could even ascribe that as all powerful, but even the scope of omnipotence would be subject to semblance of logic an reason. Could God make himself not exist? I would imagine so. But could God create a triangle in which the sum of the angles equals more than 180 degrees? No, because that's nonsense.

I believe that God could rewrite reality in its entirety to create such a triangle. But it would be stupid and pointless.

Well, I mean yeah sure. The point being a Triangle is by definition a shape with three angles and three sides where the sum of the angles will always equal 180 degrees. even if he did make a shape with three angles and three sides it wouldn't be a triangle. But yeah he'd also have to rewrite the the entirety of the fabric of reality. But that's moving the goal posts to another sport now isn't.

[Aelex]

There is evidence that God exists, it is all around us.

You can't really expect an atheist to convert just because of this argument...

[Neutraligon]

There is evidence that God exists, it is all around us.

You can't really expect an atheist to convert just because of this argument...

Considering no evidence was provided (not that I know that anything can actually be evidence for a god)...clearly not.