Christian Discussion Thread IV

[Draica]

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

Why does your opinion matter? Let Him do the judgement.

Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

[United States of Cascadia]

Given that the Religion of Christianity has over 40,000 different denominations, there will be many differing groups of Christians, who have a different take on Christianity than you do. For example, the Episcopalians will have a more Liberal view of gay marriage, as opposed to Catholics. The only thing that requires people to be Christian is to accept the divinity of Christ and accept the Bible as the word of God, whether you or anyone else considers them "True Christians" based on your particular denomination out of the 40,000 is irrelevant.

But it doesn't sit well with me to have "Christians" justifying the taking of drugs, pre-marital sex and other things that clearly defy the morals Christ taught and that the Bible teaches. It doesn't sit well with me to have these "Christians" excluding parts of the Bible they like and parts they don't like.

This is why I like the Catholic Church and considered conversion, they KNOW where they stand. They KNOW who they are. They KNOW what they believe. Everyone else? Most of everyone else is chaotic. The Catholic Church has order. A demon said to Jesus in Mark 5:9 - And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

He said we are legion, we come in order, we stand united. And, according to the Bible, the gates of Hades will not stand against the Church - The Catholic Church has awesome reasoning here.

See, in the Bible you will never see a witch fighting against another witch. You will never see a demon fighting against another demon. Only when you look at Church folks do you see Methodists fighting against baptists and baptists fighting against methods, pentecostals fighting against Lutherans, lutherans fighting against -..And the list goes on.

In the Catholic Church we see order. That's what I like about them.

Do you realize how often the Catholic Church has changed it's views? Anyhow, every single church, every single denomination, and every single christian picks and chooses what parts of the Bible they will use. How many Christians do you know who advocate stoning their children? How many choose to ignore Love thy neighbor as thyself? How many people believe in literal interpretations of Genesis? This isn't necessarily a bad thing, picking the good parts of the Bible can make people follow a structured moral code.

[Draica]

But it doesn't sit well with me to have "Christians" justifying the taking of drugs, pre-marital sex and other things that clearly defy the morals Christ taught and that the Bible teaches. It doesn't sit well with me to have these "Christians" excluding parts of the Bible they like and parts they don't like.

This is why I like the Catholic Church and considered conversion, they KNOW where they stand. They KNOW who they are. They KNOW what they believe. Everyone else? Most of everyone else is chaotic. The Catholic Church has order. A demon said to Jesus in Mark 5:9 - And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

He said we are legion, we come in order, we stand united. And, according to the Bible, the gates of Hades will not stand against the Church - The Catholic Church has awesome reasoning here.

See, in the Bible you will never see a witch fighting against another witch. You will never see a demon fighting against another demon. Only when you look at Church folks do you see Methodists fighting against baptists and baptists fighting against methods, pentecostals fighting against Lutherans, lutherans fighting against -..And the list goes on.

In the Catholic Church we see order. That's what I like about them.

Do you realize how often the Catholic Church has changed it's views? Anyhow, every single church, every single denomination, and every single christian picks and chooses what parts of the Bible they will use. How many Christians do you know who advocate stoning their children? How many choose to ignore Love thy neighbor as thyself? How many people believe in literal interpretations of Genesis? This isn't necessarily a bad thing, picking the good parts of the Bible can make people follow a structured moral code.

I addressed stoning previously, I don't know why someone wouldn't love their neighbor, and I don't know why you wouldn't look at Genesis through a more scientific lense, a more critical lense(which is what God wanted) Really, just because I don't know many people who are kind to their neighbor doesn't mean there aren't any or that they are in the minority. That's a fallacy.

[Othelos]

It's called free will, man. I should start a denomination called Free-willism.

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

God? God is (in) nature, so I don't think he really cares what you do but ok

Literally every christian is like that

i mean, you don't follow all of the OT rules, do you?

Most of the "laws" in the OT were for a certain group of people, not universial like the Ten Commandments or others in the NT. The shellfish law, clothing laws were specifically for the "Children of Israel"(jews), stoning laws were also for a specific group of people. So no, I do not follow ALL of them, but the ones I am obligated to follow? Yes.

What denomination are you a part of?

[United States of Cascadia]

Literally every christian is like that

i mean, you don't follow all of the OT rules, do you?

Most of the "laws" in the OT were for a certain group of people, not universial like the Ten Commandments or others in the NT. The shellfish law, clothing laws were specifically for the "Children of Israel"(jews), stoning laws were also for a specific group of people. So no, I do not follow ALL of them, but the ones I am obligated to follow? Yes.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

You've picked parts of the New Testament to ignore. This isn't a bad thing, but please admit that you do it.

[Sun Wukong]

It's called free will, man. I should start a denomination called Free-willism.

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

[Moon Cows]

It's called free will, man. I should start a denomination called Free-willism.

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

I understand completely how you feel here and often feel the same way, but we cannot control others. Remember that everyone sins and that as long as you do your best to be moral, set an example for others, and repent when you stumble, you're doing your part. It is not for us as Christians to point out the things others do wrong (something I am guilty of). Guide them and show them the right way, but don't be holier-than-thou about it.

Remember, there is nothing wrong with reminding others of the difference between right and wrong . . . as long as you're doing it to teach/help them.

[Draica]

Most of the "laws" in the OT were for a certain group of people, not universial like the Ten Commandments or others in the NT. The shellfish law, clothing laws were specifically for the "Children of Israel"(jews), stoning laws were also for a specific group of people. So no, I do not follow ALL of them, but the ones I am obligated to follow? Yes.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

You've picked parts of the New Testament to ignore. This isn't a bad thing, but please admit that you do it.

No, I agree with those verses and accept them. And the thing is, the OT laws I said I followed were laws I were obligated the follow: The 10 commandments. All the other laws were for the israelites, that's a fact. 9 of the 10 commandments(excluding the Sabbath day observation) are heavily repeated in the NT, thus I practically follow New law that was once old law. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

Now, does that mean I still can't be uncomfortable with pre-marital sex(which I believe is condemed in the NT), adultery, etc(all condemed in the NT?) Once more, I feel uncomfortable with Christians picking and choosing what parts of God's word they'll follow, specifcally(only when) when those parts are under the Law of Christ.

[Draica]

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

I understand completely how you feel here and often feel the same way, but we cannot control others. Remember that everyone sins and that as long as you do your best to be moral, set an example for others, and repent when you stumble, you're doing your part. It is not for us as Christians to point out the things others do wrong (something I am guilty of). Guide them and show them the right way, but don't be holier-than-thou about it.

Remember, there is nothing wrong with reminding others of the difference between right and wrong . . . as long as you're doing it to teach/help them.

Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

Other than that innaccuracy, I agree.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

It's called free will, man. I should start a denomination called Free-willism.

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

God and Jesus just spoke to me a while back, they decided that the whole Bible is absolutely rubbish, and they have produced an new, editable version condensed into a single sentence:

"Love all men and women and treat them as they would want to be treated."

[Draica]

Oh, of course they can do it, but it just doesn't sit well with me my friend. It bothers me that people do stuff that is clearly against the will of God and proclaim to be Christians. That's disturbing to me.

God and Jesus just spoke to me a while back, they decided that the whole Bible is absolutely rubbish, and they have produced an new, editable version condensed into a single sentence:

"Love all men and women and treat them as they would want to be treated."

Are you sure that wasn't Satan? He is the father of lies, after all.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

God and Jesus just spoke to me a while back, they decided that the whole Bible is absolutely rubbish, and they have produced an new, editable version condensed into a single sentence:

"Love all men and women and treat them as they would want to be treated."

Are you sure that wasn't Satan? He is the father of lies, after all.

No, I was pretty sure it was God and Jesus, they just wanted a bunch of things cleared up.

[Draica]

Are you sure that wasn't Satan? He is the father of lies, after all.

No, I was pretty sure it was God and Jesus, they just wanted a bunch of things cleared up.

Interesting. I'm inclined to not believe you.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

No, I was pretty sure it was God and Jesus, they just wanted a bunch of things cleared up.

Interesting. I'm inclined to not believe you.

It is better than the bible, it is God's actual words, rather than God's divinely inspired word.


Anybody up to get into True Christianity?

[Draica]

Interesting. I'm inclined to not believe you.

It is better than the bible, it is God's actual words, rather than God's divinely inspired word.


Anybody up to get into True Christianity?

Are you being sarcastic, my friend?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

It is better than the bible, it is God's actual words, rather than God's divinely inspired word.


Anybody up to get into True Christianity?

Are you being sarcastic, my friend?

Not at all. In fact, Christianity is suddenly improved!

[Draica]

Are you being sarcastic, my friend?

Not at all. In fact, Christianity is suddenly improved!

The sky is orange, my friend, the sky is orange.

[Sun Wukong]

Not at all. In fact, Christianity is suddenly improved!

The sky is orange, my friend, the sky is orange.

Usually is. Right around sunset.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

The sky is orange, my friend, the sky is orange.

Usually is. Right around sunset.

And dawn.

[Draica]

The sky is orange, my friend, the sky is orange.

Usually is. Right around sunset.

You both know my point, he's obviously being sarcastic.

[United States of Cascadia]

Not at all. In fact, Christianity is suddenly improved!

The sky is orange, my friend, the sky is orange.

You might want to go see an eye doctor, that sounds like a problem.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Usually is. Right around sunset.

You both know my point, he's obviously being sarcastic.

And what of what I am saying is sarcastic, or do you not know what sarcasm is?

[Draica]

You both know my point, he's obviously being sarcastic.

And what of what I am saying is sarcastic, or do you not know what sarcasm is?

Obviously you're mocking some random loon who believes Jesus talks to him and tells himself, I hope. If you really think that, then I have nothing to say because your argument is based off of a first-hand experience which we have no evidence of, while mine is based off the Bible/Law of Christ(which is relevant to the current discussion being had.)

[United States of Cascadia]

No, I agree with those verses and accept them. And the thing is, the OT laws I said I followed were laws I were obligated the follow: The 10 commandments. All the other laws were for the israelites, that's a fact. 9 of the 10 commandments(excluding the Sabbath day observation) are heavily repeated in the NT, thus I practically follow New law that was once old law. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

Now, does that mean I still can't be uncomfortable with pre-marital sex(which I believe is condemed in the NT), adultery, etc(all condemed in the NT?) Once more, I feel uncomfortable with Christians picking and choosing what parts of God's word they'll follow, specifcally(only when) when those parts are under the Law of Christ.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

Those two verses in particular seem to imply to me that the entire Old Testament is still valid. The bolded portions, make me wonder why the 10 commandments are so sacred, so, why did you pick those and not others. Picking and choosing. Its not a bad thing, but please don't deny that you do it. What you really don't like is when people pick and choose parts that you don't agree with.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

And what of what I am saying is sarcastic, or do you not know what sarcasm is?

Obviously you're mocking some random loon who believes Jesus talks to him and tells himself, I hope. If you really think that, then I have nothing to say because your argument is based off of a first-hand experience which we have no evidence of, while mine is based off the Bible/Law of Christ(which is relevant to the current discussion being had.)

My evidence is the personal experience I have with God and Jesus, which is also the justification for most Christians of their belief in Christianity. Therefore, since my experience have told me that the whole Bible is wrong, and Christ came back with a shorter set of laws (one), it is very relevant.