Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Scholmeria]

Virtually nothing Scholmeria ever says (The Nazis were friends of the Slavs, Israel treats Palestinians with respect, Falklands rightfully belong to Argentina) is correct.

The first is your false interptetation. Falklands are historically Argentinian as East Prussia used to be German.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Everything that comes out of your mouth is bullshit.

Attack the argument not the poster. If you cannot respect different opinions than ignore it instead of behalving like a Muslim extrenist after seeing Jewish civilians.

You're trying to tell him to be respectful, but then you make an insulting AND islamophobic statement that wasn't in any way needed. Hm.

[Scholmeria]

Attack the argument not the poster. If you cannot respect different opinions than ignore it instead of behalving like a Muslim extrenist after seeing Jewish civilians.

You're trying to tell him to be respectful, but then you make an insulting AND islamophobic statement that wasn't in any way needed. Hm.

How is implying that Muslim extremism something bad islamophobia?

You see to think that all form of islam is islamophobia, you know islam is not above all religions and should not be free of criticism.

[Rehansu Tir]

Hertzl isn't the 'god' of zionism.

No, but he is it's conceive and founder.

zionism became about MAINTAINING the state. and the zionists in power were those 'socialist german worker' types, which was idealized in early zionist music and literature.

Herzl was also a hungarian jew whose family originated in serbia, not the 'socialist german worker type' you characterize zionists as.

why do you think you know so much (and why do you care) about this conflict? both my parents are zionists and i fucking moved to haifa in order to agitate for change. what's your excuse?

Well, my great grandmother and grandfather were jewish - they survived the holocaust because my great grandfather was catholic. I also have a MA in political science and israel and the arab-israeli conflict was one of the focuses of my studies and research (along with democratization).

That said, I don't think people need a reason or "excuse" for caring, being interested and participating in discussion and debate about this or any other topic.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

You're trying to tell him to be respectful, but then you make an insulting AND islamophobic statement that wasn't in any way needed. Hm.

How is implying that Muslim extremism something bad islamophobia?

You see to think that all form of islam is islamophobia, you know islam is not above all religions and should not be free of criticism.

Way to dodge the hypocrisy accusations, and pick out just one part of what I said.
Using Islam in any form as an example of "evil" or "bad-ness" is Islamophobic. Comparing him to "Islamic ~extremists~" was unnecessary and just you getting a chance to vilify Islam.
Similarly, Judaism (and by extension Zionism and the state of Israel) is not above all religions and should not be free of criticism.

[Scholmeria]

Are you saying that islamic extremism is something that should mot be critised? Seriously that is sick.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Are you saying that islamic extremism is something that should mot be critised? Seriously that is sick.

You need to work on your comprehension skills if that's what you're getting from anything I've said.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

And what about the innocent Palestinian that was murdered because of the Israelis going missing? The Palestinian in question had nothing to do with the kidnapping.

He was Palestinian, which obviously is proof of guilt. *nod nod*

It's okay, we should only be outraged at the atrocities committed against our preferred side.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

usually Israel bombs entire cities out of revenge, thank god they havent done it now

Yet*

Odds on the killers being celebrated as heroes?

Officially, low, they've been roundly denounced by the Israeli leadership.

The worries are that Israeli Police may not properly investigate the killing - we already know the apparent public stance in many areas.

So we shouldn't treat the palestinians as rational people who are endowed with the capacity to determine what is right andwrong? We are to excuse them because they are "barbarians and savages"? Enlightening, let's go even further and lower ourselves to animals, then all things are permissible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

How about that, nothing on Palestinian public opinion.

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

That reaction was dated June 22, and the bodies were found on June 30.

I said almost all Palestinians were celebrating. Is that, even that, a little too broad? Yes it is. The evidence is merely that it is supported by HAMAS and the Palestinian authority. Then again, you decide to misinterpret my statement to the more easily falsifiable "ALL Palestianian", which isn't even necessary, but which you went ahead anyways because you have no concern as to the accuracy of your statement.

"Almost all" carries the exact same connotation as popular phrases "90%", "near as makes no difference" etc.

Still wholly unsubstantiated.
You seem to be conflating Hamas' support with Palestinian support - when many Palestinians don't even support Hamas.

More palestinians die every year at the hands of palestinians than at the hands of israelis, but when you want to see israel and israelis as killers, then you will. These are the same people who ignore the fact that 5 times as many people have been killed in the syrian civil war than palestinians killed by israelis since 1948.

That's mostly because Syria's in a full-scale all-arms civil war.
The Israeli-Palestinian occupation is a police action.

1. "Almost all" isn't akin to "All" or "90%", it is vague enough that it can be interpreted however broadly or narrowly I choose. However, I already admitted that it is wholly unsubstantiated by anything and that I do regret putting it down.

[Scholmeria]

I: "Muslim extremists are evil and people should be like them"
The other dude: " how dare you critise them? You are islamophobic"

Really this political coretness makes people dumb.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

I: "Muslim extremists are evil and people should be like them"
The other dude: " how dare you critise them? You are islamophobic"

Really this political coretness makes people dumb.

Yeah... I'm the dumb one here.

[DogDoo 7]

Hertzl isn't the 'god' of zionism.

No, but he is it's conceive and founder.

zionism became about MAINTAINING the state. and the zionists in power were those 'socialist german worker' types, which was idealized in early zionist music and literature.

Herzl was also a hungarian jew whose family originated in serbia, not the 'socialist german worker type' you characterize zionists as.

why do you think you know so much (and why do you care) about this conflict? both my parents are zionists and i fucking moved to haifa in order to agitate for change. what's your excuse?

Well, my great grandmother and grandfather were jewish - they survived the holocaust because my great grandfather was catholic. I also have a MA in political science and israel and the arab-israeli conflict was one of the focuses of my studies and research (along with democratization).

That said, I don't think people need a reason or "excuse" for caring, being interested and participating in discussion and debate about this or any other topic.

hertzl isn't the founder of zionism, nor did he conceive of it. his theory was simply adopted by the mainstream.

[MERIZoC]

I: "Muslim extremists are evil and people should be like them"
The other dude: " how dare you critise them? You are islamophobic"

Really this political coretness makes people dumb.

Reading comprehension. It helps.

[MERIZoC]

Everything that comes out of your mouth is bullshit.

Attack the argument not the poster. If you cannot respect different opinions than ignore it instead of behalving like a Muslim extrenist after seeing Jewish civilians.

I'm saying that's a bullshit statement. Also, your comparing me to muslim extremists is laughable and doesn't improve your credibility.

[Quatan]

On average, every 3 days a Palestinian child is killed by the Imperial Fascistic forces of Israel. Far more Palestinian adults are killed as well. 3 Israeli child deaths is sad, but Palestine has suffered far worst.

[Benuty]

"and what if they're (non-jews) just breeding faster than you? you've got all the jews you can from all over the world and made sure only people of the right ethnicity can come, but it's still not enough? what do you do?"

and also, could you answer this question Rehansu Tir? just to get us up to speed on your views.

The Haredi breed like rabbits so it won't be a problem.

[Revolutionarily]

And everyone still likes to complain about Israel and pretend that palestine is completely innocent

[Estrain (Ancient)]

And everyone still likes to complain about Israel and pretend that palestine is completely innocent

No one thinks Palestine is "innocent," but that doesn't give Israel a free pass on all of its atrocities.

[Gauthier]

3 Israeli teens shot execution style, 1 Palestinian teen burned alive and beaten.

Clearly the Israelis had the more horrific and unconscionable deaths.

[DogDoo 7]

And everyone still likes to complain about Israel and pretend that palestine is completely innocent

palestine isn't a thing. there's only one government here and it's israel. and when there's violence, the government is usually to blame, especially if it denies 50% of the people living under its authority even the most basic of rights.

[Rehansu Tir]

On average, every 3 days a Palestinian child is killed by the Imperial Fascistic forces of Israel. Far more Palestinian adults are killed as well. 3 Israeli child deaths is sad, but Palestine has suffered far worst.

Then they should admit defeat and accept the very generous peace terms that have been offered to them by successive israeli governments, left and right wing. They'll get their state, they'll get peace, they'll get whatever government they desire. and once they've shown that they actually are committed to peace, they will gradually gain full control of their borders and airspace, without the need for the israeli military to maintain secure border and prevent the influx of terrorists and weapons that are targeted at israel and israeli civilians.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

On average, every 3 days a Palestinian child is killed by the Imperial Fascistic forces of Israel. Far more Palestinian adults are killed as well. 3 Israeli child deaths is sad, but Palestine has suffered far worst.

Then they should admit defeat and accept the very generous peace terms that have been offered to them by successive israeli governments, left and right wing. They'll get their state, they'll get peace, they'll get whatever government they desire. and once they've shown that they actually are committed to peace, they will gradually gain full control of their borders and airspace, without the need for the israeli military to maintain secure border and prevent the influx of terrorists and weapons that are targeted at israel and israeli civilians.

This is the issue with this:
Someone says CHILDREN are dying at the hands of Israel, and you don't express any sadness. Any sympathy. You ignore it. You move on. You tell them, hey accept the ~generous~ terms they've been offered.
Because WE as a colonizing force in YOUR land can tell YOU where YOU get to live because WE'VE decided that WE can. And then, you have to prove yourself to us, the murderers of your children and fathers and friends, so that WE can give you basic rights and basic sovereignty.
You don't see anything wrong with that, at all, do you?

[Rehansu Tir]

"and what if they're (non-jews) just breeding faster than you? you've got all the jews you can from all over the world and made sure only people of the right ethnicity can come, but it's still not enough? what do you do?"

and also, could you answer this question Rehansu Tir? just to get us up to speed on your views.

Then the borders of the state on the ground may change again, just as they do everywhere else in the world as populations change and shift. Just as they did just recently in kosovo.

Perhaps israel will split into two countries, one with a majority jewish population and one with a majority arab population. perhaps the arab majority area will join a neighbouring arab majority state.

This could happen even now, as some israeli officials (I don't agree with them by the way, but it's been proposed) have proposed that as part of the land swaps proposed in peace proposals, that arab majority areas of israel would be traded for the larger and contiguous settlements in the WB.

Personally, I prefer that arab-israelis have the choice of whether or not they remain israeli citizens living in israel or become part of another, palestinian/arab state. Especially since polls have shown that a majority arab israelis, be they palestinian or druze, would prefer to remain israeli citizens rather than become palestinian citizens.

[Gauthier]

Then they should admit defeat and accept the very generous peace terms that have been offered to them by successive israeli governments, left and right wing. They'll get their state, they'll get peace, they'll get whatever government they desire. and once they've shown that they actually are committed to peace, they will gradually gain full control of their borders and airspace, without the need for the israeli military to maintain secure border and prevent the influx of terrorists and weapons that are targeted at israel and israeli civilians.

This is the issue with this:
Someone says CHILDREN are dying at the hands of Israel, and you don't express any sadness. Any sympathy. You ignore it. You move on. You tell them, hey accept the ~generous~ terms they've been offered.
Because WE as a colonizing force in YOUR land can tell YOU where YOU get to live because WE'VE decided that WE can. And then, you have to prove yourself to us, the murderers of your children and fathers and friends, so that WE can give you basic rights and basic sovereignty.
You don't see anything wrong with that, at all, do you?

Basically, the untermenschen should be thankful they're allowed by their Israeli ubermenschen to continue breathing.

[Herskerstad]

Israel has just arrested 6 Jewish extremists in connection with the murder of the Palestinian boy.