Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

And since you know what the Palestinians will do next and where, why not let the IDF know?

Which is implied in that statement by...what exactly?

Hey, lookit that strawman!

Never said anything about Israel letting the 3 die. That's your hopeful fiction.

No, that is what I took your statement to mean, and if it is an misinterpretation, then, do tell me what you mean to say.

Or do you mean that you don't actually intend to argue, but insert random, sometimes barely coherent witticism to replace actual arguments.

But, I think that it is good that we are no longer arguing over whether I meant to say that all Palestinians celebrated the kids' death, for me because the original statement was unfounded and too broad for any current evidence to support, and you, because it is clearly a misrepresentation of my views and my words.

[Rehansu Tir]

Name these Young Turks who would like to see all Palestinians completely annihilated in Israeli concentration camps.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/leaked-r ... o-ukraine/

Intresting

First off, the times of israel isn't a real media source, it's israel's version of Weekly World News.

Second, the european jews are khazars myth has long been discredited and is supported by no one but arabs and anti-semites.

Here, read about the studies and educate yourself.

http://www.cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0002 ... ?cc=y?cc=y

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0610/j ... 7YjXbGsj8s

[Rehansu Tir]

one of the biggest tragedies of the modern israeli state was the complete suppression of arab jewish culture. pretty much the only thing we absorbed was the food. their literature, music, occupations, architecture, culture, all subsumed under kaveret, ben gurion rice, ma'abarot, and construction. this was done by the ruling class (i.e. ashkenazi) in order to make the mizrachim forget where they came from. it is no small wonder that the most racist jews in israel today tend to be from this class of people. they have always felt the need to 'prove' their loyalty to the zionist entity, and to show that they are not with the people with whom they share a language, food, architecture, and music.

Always some excuse and some way to blame the jews. ridiculous.

[Rehansu Tir]

The palestinians in the WB and gaza are palestinians, not israelis, by their own desire to be so

And if they wanted to become Israelis, they would be allowed to do so?

See, in my opinion, the only possible solution to the conflict is this: all Palestinians everywhere are granted Israeli citizenship in exchange for them renouncing all claims to a separate state, and Israel (which now includes all those new citizens of Palestinian origin) formally annexes the West Bank and Gaza.

Thus you get a one state solution with equal rights for all. The only problem is getting people to agree to it. Pie in the sky, I know, but until this (or something like it) is achieved, the violence will never end.

Israel has a standing offer to all palestinians living in east jerusalem of israeli citizenship.

And no, the palestinians can't become israeli citizens because that would be a violation of the geneva conventions that the israel bashers hold so dear. the same geneva conventions that don't allow israel to administer the occupied west bank and its palestinian citizens by israeli laws - they have to be administered according to the palestinian laws that are in place.

And your solution would result in a palestinian dominated state that would quickly start to oppress the jewish population, resulting in ethnic cleansing, genocide and war. It's a terrible idea for anyone who claims to want a peaceful solution to the arab-israeli conflict.

[Rehansu Tir]

Absolutely right. In fact, while arab israelis had the right to vote, etc in israel immediately after the founding of the state of israel, the native americans weren't recognized as citizens until 1924, and did't get the right to vote and most other civil rights that others take for granted until the Indian Civil Rights Act in 1968.

ah, but arab israelis lived under military law until 1966. their political parties and newspapers were banned, and they weren't even allowed to leave their town of residence without a travel permit from the military. and these were citizens mind you!

That's just not true.

"Two Arab parties ran in Israel's first election in 1949, with one, the Democratic List of Nazareth, winning two seats" Seif el-Din el-Zoubi and Amin-Salim Jarjora.

Arabs have voted and been elected to the knesset in every election since the founding of israel in 1948.

[Rehansu Tir]

That's not true.

Ok, have it your way. A million Arabs are worth a Jewish fingernail.

By the palestinians own math, one israeli is worth 1,027 arabs. That's how many arabs israel had to release in exchange for Gilad Shalit. Israeli math says save one life, save the world.

[Rehansu Tir]

Since 2000 a Palestinian child dies every three days due to the brutal occupation.

I'm more concerned about that than three settler teens.

More palestinians die every year at the hands of palestinians than at the hands of israelis, but when you want to see israel and israelis as killers, then you will. These are the same people who ignore the fact that 5 times as many people have been killed in the syrian civil war than palestinians killed by israelis since 1948.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Since 2000 a Palestinian child dies every three days due to the brutal occupation.

I'm more concerned about that than three settler teens.

More palestinians die every year at the hands of palestinians than at the hands of israelis, but when you want to see israel and israelis as killers, then you will. These are the same people who ignore the fact that 5 times as many people have been killed in the syrian civil war than palestinians killed by israelis since 1948.

1. Are you having a debate by yourself?
2. That's really neither here nor there, considering everyone on here was talking about violence between Israel and Palestinians.

[Rehansu Tir]

The only legitimate government of Palestine is Fatah. Hamas must be forcefully removed for the sake of stability within the region.

How is even fatah legitimate? Elections haven't been held anywhere is palestine for more than 8 years. even abbas' term in office is now in it's tenth year of a 4 year term.

[Rehansu Tir]

More palestinians die every year at the hands of palestinians than at the hands of israelis, but when you want to see israel and israelis as killers, then you will. These are the same people who ignore the fact that 5 times as many people have been killed in the syrian civil war than palestinians killed by israelis since 1948.

1. Are you having a debate by yourself?
2. That's really neither here nor there, considering everyone on here was talking about violence between Israel and Palestinians.

No, I'm not debating myself, I'm responding to different comments now that I have the time to, as are you apparently. It's just that I have more to say in both quantity and quality than you do, but go on making as many or as few comments as you like, and have enough respect for the rest of us to allow us to do the same.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

1. Are you having a debate by yourself?
2. That's really neither here nor there, considering everyone on here was talking about violence between Israel and Palestinians.

No, I'm not debating myself, I'm responding to different comments now that I have the time to, as are you apparently. It's just that I have more to say in both quantity and quality than you do, but go on making as many or as few comments as you like, and have enough respect for the rest of us to allow us to do the same.

I wasn't being rude to you, but thanks for being rude to me.

[Kuzbeckistan]

These three teens who got killed by Militants are nothing compared to the palestinian boy (Faris Odeh) who was younger than them and threw stones at TANKS and SOLDIERS.

[Imperializt Russia]

I have been hearing of a palestinian teen being killed out of revenge, is that true?

usually Israel bombs entire cities out of revenge, thank god they havent done it now

Yet*

Sadly, yes.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/palestinian-youth-body-found-amid-tension-2014727956766566.html

Odds on the killers being celebrated as heroes?

Officially, low, they've been roundly denounced by the Israeli leadership.

The worries are that Israeli Police may not properly investigate the killing - we already know the apparent public stance in many areas.

Aren't the Palestinians supposed to be the dirty backwards savages and the Israelis the civilized human beings? Nothing says "civilized" like celebrating a murder just because the victim is One of Those Things.

Oh, and a link to a source saying every Palestinian celebrated the murders?

So we shouldn't treat the palestinians as rational people who are endowed with the capacity to determine what is right andwrong? We are to excuse them because they are "barbarians and savages"? Enlightening, let's go even further and lower ourselves to animals, then all things are permissible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

While the Palestinian Authority and Fatah praised the kidnappings,[12][13] Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas criticized the kidnapping, saying the youths must be returned,[14] and that Palestinian Authority security was cooperating with Israel to try to locate them.[15] However he maintained that as of 22 June there was no evidence to show that Hamas was behind the kidnapping.[16] Hamas praised the kidnapping, without claiming responsibility,[17] and condemned Abbas for criticizing the kidnapping.[18]

How about that, nothing on Palestinian public opinion.

I shouldn't be surprised sarcasm is easy to overlook when it refers to Palestinians as dirty backwards savages. Too many people believe it as it is. And I've yet to see proof that Israel treats them as anything but. And as has been pointed out many times, Arab Israelis are pretty much second-class citizens so that copout won't work.



And you can't even read your own sources. They praised the kidnappings. Not the murders.

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

That reaction was dated June 22, and the bodies were found on June 30.

And yet despite this analysis, you somehow come to the conclusion that ALL the Palestinians are celebrating the murders as well as the kidnappings.

I said almost all Palestinians were celebrating. Is that, even that, a little too broad? Yes it is. The evidence is merely that it is supported by HAMAS and the Palestinian authority. Then again, you decide to misinterpret my statement to the more easily falsifiable "ALL Palestianian", which isn't even necessary, but which you went ahead anyways because you have no concern as to the accuracy of your statement.

"Almost all" carries the exact same connotation as popular phrases "90%", "near as makes no difference" etc.

Still wholly unsubstantiated.
You seem to be conflating Hamas' support with Palestinian support - when many Palestinians don't even support Hamas.

Since 2000 a Palestinian child dies every three days due to the brutal occupation.

I'm more concerned about that than three settler teens.

More palestinians die every year at the hands of palestinians than at the hands of israelis, but when you want to see israel and israelis as killers, then you will. These are the same people who ignore the fact that 5 times as many people have been killed in the syrian civil war than palestinians killed by israelis since 1948.

That's mostly because Syria's in a full-scale all-arms civil war.
The Israeli-Palestinian occupation is a police action.

[Alyakia]

That's mostly because Syria's in a full-scale all-arms civil war.
The Israeli-Palestinian occupation is a police action.

lol

police action is just what people say when they're having a war or occupation but don't want to say it

see: "police actions" in algeria and indonesia and why the vietnam war wasn't a real war because america never declared war guys

it's mostly because "one side is massively more powerful than the other" really

[Imperializt Russia]

That's mostly because Syria's in a full-scale all-arms civil war.
The Israeli-Palestinian occupation is a police action.

lol

police action is just what people say when they're having a war or occupation but don't want to say it

see: "police actions" in algeria and indonesia and why the vietnam war wasn't a real war because america never declared war guys

it's mostly because "one side is massively more powerful than the other" really

No, that's a non-parity conflict.

I say "police action", because the action is policing.
Iraq didn't become a police action until the Iraqi Army had been defeated and Iraq was occupied. Vietnam was never a police action and I don't recall it ever being considered one.

"Police action" is basically just another term for "military occupation" which is exactly what the Israeli-Palestinian situation is.

[Rehansu Tir]

That's mostly because Syria's in a full-scale all-arms civil war.
The Israeli-Palestinian occupation is a police action.

lol

police action is just what people say when they're having a war or occupation but don't want to say it

see: "police actions" in algeria and indonesia and why the vietnam war wasn't a real war because america never declared war guys

it's mostly because "one side is massively more powerful than the other" really

Well, Israelis and Palestinians have been in a constant state of war since 1948, with only cease-fires punctuating the violence.

[Vazdania]

The only legitimate government of Palestine is Fatah. Hamas must be forcefully removed for the sake of stability within the region.

The only legitimate government of "palestine" is Israel. Both Fatah and Hamas must be totally and utterly obliterated for stabilities sake.

[Gauthier]

The only legitimate government of Palestine is Fatah. Hamas must be forcefully removed for the sake of stability within the region.

The only legitimate government of "palestine" is Israel. Both Fatah and Hamas must be totally and utterly obliterated for stabilities sake.

And the Palestinians evicted from the lands or shot. *nod nod*

[Vazdania]

The only legitimate government of "palestine" is Israel. Both Fatah and Hamas must be totally and utterly obliterated for stabilities sake.

And the Palestinians evicted from the lands or shot. *nod nod*

If they are Hostile, sure.

[Gauthier]

And the Palestinians evicted from the lands or shot. *nod nod*

If they are Hostile, sure.

They all are you know. Every one of them a drone of Hamas. *nod nod*

[Satanic Socialist States]

Shows what happens when you try to negotiate with fundamentalists. If it weren't for the world media's assault on Israel's right to exist then Israel could have gone in and destroyed Hamas by now.

[Rehansu Tir]

Shows what happens when you try to negotiate with fundamentalists. If it weren't for the world media's assault on Israel's right to exist then Israel could have gone in and destroyed Hamas by now.

If israel were what the palestinians and their apologists claim they are, then israel would have cleansed the WB, gaza and israel of all non-jews by now. As they keep reminding us, israel has the strongest military in the region, and yet somehow it's held at bay by rocketfire and unparented teenagers who throw stones at soldiers and civilians.

It's almost as if israel were showing restraint, but we know that can't be true.

[Satanic Socialist States]

Shows what happens when you try to negotiate with fundamentalists. If it weren't for the world media's assault on Israel's right to exist then Israel could have gone in and destroyed Hamas by now.

If israel were what the palestinians and their apologists claim they are, then israel would have cleansed the WB, gaza and israel of all non-jews by now. As they keep reminding us, israel has the strongest military in the region, and yet somehow it's held at bay by rocketfire and unparented teenagers who throw stones at soldiers and civilians.

It's almost as if israel were showing restraint, but we know that can't be true.

Yes, I agree. But if Israel were to go in and destroy Hamas, even without civilian casualties, the media storm would be brutal. Western nations would have to respond to their misinformed citizens demands to end relations with Israel.

[Satanic Socialist States]

If they are Hostile, sure.

They all are you know. Every one of them a drone of Hamas. *nod nod*

I'm not sure I have even seen you present any argument that isn't a fallacy of some sort. Is strawmanning all you know how to do?

He is saying that those who commit acts of violence against Jews should be evicted from Jewish land. Where did you get the idea that he was saying all Arabs in Israel are hostile?

[Estrain (Ancient)]

If israel were what the palestinians and their apologists claim they are, then israel would have cleansed the WB, gaza and israel of all non-jews by now. As they keep reminding us, israel has the strongest military in the region, and yet somehow it's held at bay by rocketfire and unparented teenagers who throw stones at soldiers and civilians.

It's almost as if israel were showing restraint, but we know that can't be true.

Yes, I agree. But if Israel were to go in and destroy Hamas, even without civilian casualties, the media storm would be brutal. Western nations would have to respond to their misinformed citizens demands to end relations with Israel.

What media are you talking about with such an anti-Israel ideology? And what Western nations have such an anti-Israel population? In America, there's no such of either things.