Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Geilinor]

Like how they killers of the teens were hailed by HAMAS and almost everyone in Palestine?

Aren't the Palestinians supposed to be the dirty backwards savages and the Israelis the civilized human beings? Nothing says "civilized" like celebrating a murder just because the victim is One of Those Things.

Oh, and a link to a source saying every Palestinian celebrated the murders?

Link to a source saying that most Israelis celebrated the murder?

[Libhiriya]

Since 2000 a Palestinian child dies every three days due to the brutal occupation.

I'm more concerned about that than three settler teens.

[Gauthier]

Aren't the Palestinians supposed to be the dirty backwards savages and the Israelis the civilized human beings? Nothing says "civilized" like celebrating a murder just because the victim is One of Those Things.

Oh, and a link to a source saying every Palestinian celebrated the murders?

Link to a source saying that most Israelis celebrated the murder?

Nobody celebrated the murder of the Palestinian teen so far.

But given how people still celebrate Baruch Goldstein as a hero, don't tell me they never can.

Sheikh Jarrah Jews praise Baruch Goldstein on Purim

[Geilinor]

So we shouldn't treat the palestinians as rational people who are endowed with the capacity to determine what is right andwrong? We are to excuse them because they are "barbarians and savages"? Enlightening, let's go even further and lower ourselves to animals, then all things are permissible.

I shouldn't be surprised sarcasm is easy to overlook when it refers to Palestinians as dirty backwards savages. Too many people believe it as it is. And I've yet to see proof that Israel treats them as anything but. And as has been pointed out many times, Arab Israelis are pretty much second-class citizens so that copout won't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

And you can't even read your own sources. They praised the kidnappings. Not the murders.

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I shouldn't be surprised sarcasm is easy to overlook when it refers to Palestinians as dirty backwards savages. Too many people believe it as it is. And I've yet to see proof that Israel treats them as anything but. And as has been pointed out many times, Arab Israelis are pretty much second-class citizens so that copout won't work.

And this is relevant because...no one is saying the Israel is the most perfect and blessed place in the universe, in fact, no one is even arguing to that effect. What is being argued here is that you are treating the open celebration of the death of three unarmed, teenaged noncombatant as acceptable because it is your side, when you are implicitly condemning Israel's not yet celebration of the reprisal killing. The excuse for this, some sarcastic comment about Israel being "civilised" and Palestinians being "barbarians", so holding both are wrong to celebrate murder of noncombatants is obviously out of the question because, so long as we let ourselves sink to the level of animals, morality no longer applies to us.

And you can't even read your own sources. They praised the kidnappings. Not the murders.

Somehow, I feel better that they support the abduction of unarmed teenaged noncombatants, and that completely detracts from the point that they are celebrating an unjustified kidnapping.

[Gauthier]

I shouldn't be surprised sarcasm is easy to overlook when it refers to Palestinians as dirty backwards savages. Too many people believe it as it is. And I've yet to see proof that Israel treats them as anything but. And as has been pointed out many times, Arab Israelis are pretty much second-class citizens so that copout won't work.



And you can't even read your own sources. They praised the kidnappings. Not the murders.

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

Ah, so praising the kidnappings automatically makes them praise the murders. So, where's the news reports saying they praised the murders hmm?

Maybe it's just me, but if someone actually celebrated the murders I'd think it would be played over and over just to point out how dirty those Palestinians really are, iknorite?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

Ah, so praising the kidnappings automatically makes them praise the murders.

So, they all believe that this kidnapping is at all justified, and that this kidnapping won't go any further than that? No one expected them to come out alive unless they were taken alived by the military.

So, where's the news reports saying they praised the murders hmm?

They praised the kidnapping, and the kidnapping was not going to end with simply them telling the kids to tell their parents to stop misbehaving and respect Palestinian dignity.

[Geilinor]

If they didn't support what happened afterward, they wouldn't have praised the kidnapping. They would have kept silent or condemned both the kidnappings and the murders.

Ah, so praising the kidnappings automatically makes them praise the murders. So, where's the news reports saying they praised the murders hmm?

The kidnappers didn't demand ransom, so their intention must have been to capture and kill.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Link to a source saying that most Israelis celebrated the murder?

Nobody celebrated the murder of the Palestinian teen so far.

But given how people still celebrate Baruch Goldstein as a hero, don't tell me they never can.

Sheikh Jarrah Jews praise Baruch Goldstein on Purim

You are in demand for specifics, therefore you yourself should provide specifics.

[Gauthier]

Ah, so praising the kidnappings automatically makes them praise the murders.

So, they all believe that this kidnapping is at all justified, and that this kidnapping won't go any further than that? No one expected them to come out alive unless they were taken alived by the military.

So, where's the news reports saying they praised the murders hmm?

They praised the kidnapping, and the kidnapping was not going to end with simply them telling the kids to tell their parents to stop misbehaving and respect Palestinian dignity.

So when did you graduate from Quantico? A lot of child abductions don't have ransom demands. Clearly those kids were all intended to die.

Ah, so praising the kidnappings automatically makes them praise the murders. So, where's the news reports saying they praised the murders hmm?

The kidnappers didn't demand ransom, so their intention must have been to capture and kill.

Again, a lot of child abductions don't come with ransom demands and yet they're not all found dead.

[Gauthier]

Nobody celebrated the murder of the Palestinian teen so far.

But given how people still celebrate Baruch Goldstein as a hero, don't tell me they never can.

Sheikh Jarrah Jews praise Baruch Goldstein on Purim

You are in demand for specifics, therefore you yourself should provide specifics.

This from someone who's certain the Palestnians are celebrating the murders without specific evidence.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

So when did you graduate from Quantico? A lot of child abductions don't have ransom demands. Clearly those kids were all intended to die.

Since we have enough sense to observe the world around us- three teenagers of one ethnic group were kidnapped by a group of people from another who are openly hostile to that particular ethnic group, and some more extreme factions wishing all of them were dead. We can rule that the moderate faction that don't want to eterminate that particular ethnic group out because moderates generally don't kidnap people to begin with, do, so that leaves only one conclusion.

In other words, we have a fair bit of sense to interpret information within their context to realise that their chance of not being killed is inversely proportional to the amount of time they are kidnapped, and exponentially so.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

You are in demand for specifics, therefore you yourself should provide specifics.

This from someone who's certain the Palestnians are celebrating the murders without specific evidence.

I have, they are celebrating the kidnapping of teenagers and no one, absolutely no one, not even you, in your heart of hearts, believe were simply kidnapped to get their wrist slapped and given a telling off. It was obvious that this is an abduct and murder case to all parties involved.

[Gauthier]

So when did you graduate from Quantico? A lot of child abductions don't have ransom demands. Clearly those kids were all intended to die.

Since we have enough sense to observe the world around us- three teenagers of one ethnic group were kidnapped by a group of people from another who are openly hostile to that particular ethnic group, and some more extreme factions wishing all of them were dead. We can rule that the moderate faction that don't want to eterminate that particular ethnic group out because moderates generally don't kidnap people to begin with, do, so that leaves only one conclusion.

In other words, we have a fair bit of sense to interpret information within their context to realise that their chance of not being killed is inversely proportional to the amount of time they are kidnapped, and exponentially so.

And yet despite this analysis, you somehow come to the conclusion that ALL the Palestinians are celebrating the murders as well as the kidnappings.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Since we have enough sense to observe the world around us- three teenagers of one ethnic group were kidnapped by a group of people from another who are openly hostile to that particular ethnic group, and some more extreme factions wishing all of them were dead. We can rule that the moderate faction that don't want to eterminate that particular ethnic group out because moderates generally don't kidnap people to begin with, do, so that leaves only one conclusion.

In other words, we have a fair bit of sense to interpret information within their context to realise that their chance of not being killed is inversely proportional to the amount of time they are kidnapped, and exponentially so.

And yet despite this analysis, you somehow come to the conclusion that ALL the Palestinians are celebrating the murders as well as the kidnappings.

I said almost all Palestinians were celebrating. Is that, even that, a little too broad? Yes it is. The evidence is merely that it is supported by HAMAS and the Palestinian authority. Then again, you decide to misinterpret my statement to the more easily falsifiable "ALL Palestianian", which isn't even necessary, but which you went ahead anyways because you have no concern as to the accuracy of your statement.

[Gauthier]

And yet despite this analysis, you somehow come to the conclusion that ALL the Palestinians are celebrating the murders as well as the kidnappings.

I said almost all Palestinians were celebrating. Is that, even that, a little too broad? Yes it is. The evidence is merely that it is supported by HAMAS and the Palestinian authority. Then again, you decide to misinterpret my statement to the more easily falsifiable "ALL Palestianian", which isn't even necessary, but which you went ahead anyways because you have no concern as to the accuracy of your statement.

Misinterpret? The wiki article you harp on as a source said they celebrated the kidnappings, but not the murders. You're inserting your assumption that they celebrated the murders as well and pronouncing it as fact. If someone did celebrate the murders it would have been at least splashed all over right wing media as proof of how dirty and barbaric those Palestinians really are and how Ann Coulter was right in saying we should kill them all and covert them to Christianity.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I said almost all Palestinians were celebrating. Is that, even that, a little too broad? Yes it is. The evidence is merely that it is supported by HAMAS and the Palestinian authority. Then again, you decide to misinterpret my statement to the more easily falsifiable "ALL Palestianian", which isn't even necessary, but which you went ahead anyways because you have no concern as to the accuracy of your statement.

Misinterpret? The wiki article you harp on as a source said they celebrated the kidnappings,

You did, stop pretending you didn't now that I have definitively shown that to you. You claim that I said that "all Palestinian" when I said, "almost all", which is, admittedly, still too broad an assumption without polling all the Palestinians on their opinion, but not claim that ALL think so. What my source says on the matter is irrelevant to your misinterpretation, but let's go back to my source anyways.

but not the murders. You're inserting your assumption that they celebrated the murders as well and pronouncing it as fact

It is a reasonable deduction, and no one would dispute it unless they are feeling quarrellous.

If someone did celebrate the murders it would have been at least splashed all over right wing media as proof of how dirty and barbaric those Palestinians really are and how Ann Coulter was right in saying we should kill them all and covert them to Christianity.

Which isn't even true, but let's grant you that. Why is the marginally less heinous act of celebrating the kidnapping of unarmed combatants not able to generate such frenzied response on the part of this Right Wing Media? Because murder is the only thing that get's an entire hate fete? Or is it because you are just pulling shit out of your arse, like you were accusing me ealier.

[Gauthier]

Misinterpret? The wiki article you harp on as a source said they celebrated the kidnappings,

You did, stop pretending you didn't now that I have definitively shown that to you. You claim that I said that "all Palestinian" when I said, "almost all", which is, admittedly, still too broad an assumption without polling all the Palestinians on their opinion, but not claim that ALL think so. What my source says on the matter is irrelevant to your misinterpretation, but let's go back to my source anyways.

but not the murders. You're inserting your assumption that they celebrated the murders as well and pronouncing it as fact

It is a reasonable deduction, and no one would dispute it unless they are feeling quarrellous

.

There's that old proverb about assumptions, but you're smart enough.

If someone did celebrate the murders it would have been at least splashed all over right wing media as proof of how dirty and barbaric those Palestinians really are and how Ann Coulter was right in saying we should kill them all and covert them to Christianity.

Which isn't even true, but let's grant you that. Why is the marginally less heinous act of celebrating the kidnapping of unarmed combatants not able to generate such frenzied response on the part of this Right Wing Media? Because murder is the only thing that get's an entire hate fete? Or is it because you are just pulling shit out of your arse, like you were accusing me ealier.

Footage of Palestinians dancing after 9/11 came out and you're telling me they wouldn't pounce on actual celebration of the murder? I'm not the one pulling shit here looks like.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

There's that old proverb about assumptions, but you're smart enough.

Smart enough to realise that this is nothing substantial.

Footage of Palestinians dancing after 9/11 came out and you're telling me they wouldn't pounce on actual celebration of the murder? I'm not the one pulling shit here looks like.

This isn't even relevent to your point- there are footage of Palestinian celebrating 9/11, how does that prove what you are saying which is, correct me if I am wrong, that the moment the Palestinian support that particular murder, the Right wing media will leap upon it to call them barbarians and advocate for a second crusage? Why didn't their praise of the kidnapping engender such response?

[Gauthier]

There's that old proverb about assumptions, but you're smart enough.

Smart enough to realise that this is nothing substantial.

Since you seem to have a firm grasp of the Palestinian mindset, maybe if you took a consulting job with the IDF they could be much more efficient.

Footage of Palestinians dancing after 9/11 came out and you're telling me they wouldn't pounce on actual celebration of the murder? I'm not the one pulling shit here looks like.

This isn't even relevent to your point- there are footage of Palestinian celebrating 9/11, how does that prove what you are saying which is, correct me if I am wrong, that the moment the Palestinian support that particular murder, the Right wing media will leap upon it to call them barbarians and advocate for a second crusage? Why didn't their praise of the kidnapping engender such response?

Probably because there were hopes of the teenagers being brought back alive then and calling for a Bomb the Shit Out of Them campaign would have been counterproductive.

[Evraim]

1: Good. Have fun when the Hopi tribe starts blowing your house up.

Hopi terrorists actually sound kind of cool. NOT THAT I SUPPORT IT, NSA!!!

2: What the fuck? The kid was to blame? What the fuck is your problem with him? Someone died, and you think it's okay. Disgusting...

Indeed. This thread is bringing out the worst in some people.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Since you seem to have a firm grasp of the Palestinian mindset, maybe if you took a consulting job with the IDF they could be much more efficient.

Since I am endowed with enough reasoning power to realise that (1) the more extreme of Palestianian group advocate for the extermination of Jews altogether and (2) the more extreme of Palestinian groups usually engage in terrorist tactics and kidnapping, as with everyone else with even a remote familiarity with the region, we can safely deduce that they kidnapped for the purpose of killing, as almost everyone had when the story broke out.

Probably because there were hopes of the teenagers being brought back alive then and calling for a Bomb the Shit Out of Them campaign would have been counterproductive.

And you are implying that Israel purposely decided to let them die so that they can continue the war against the Palestinians? And that is a sounder judgment than saying what most people assumed, including yourself, probably, in your hearts of heart, and most palestinians and israelis undoubtedly assume because of the deduction I have already provided?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Hopi terrorists actually sound kind of cool. NOT THAT I SUPPORT IT, NSA!!!

Hopis, you know what to do...not that I am saying anything, of course, but you know what to do now.

[Gauthier]

Since you seem to have a firm grasp of the Palestinian mindset, maybe if you took a consulting job with the IDF they could be much more efficient.

Since I am endowed with enough reasoning power to realise that (1) the more extreme of Palestianian group advocate for the extermination of Jews altogether and (2) the more extreme of Palestinian groups usually engage in terrorist tactics and kidnapping, as with everyone else with even a remote familiarity with the region, we can safely deduce that they kidnapped for the purpose of killing, as almost everyone had when the story broke out.

And since you know what the Palestinians will do next and where, why not let the IDF know?

Probably because there were hopes of the teenagers being brought back alive then and calling for a Bomb the Shit Out of Them campaign would have been counterproductive.

And you are implying that Israel purposely decided to let them die so that they can continue the war against the Palestinians? And that is a sounder judgment than saying what most people assumed, including yourself, probably, in your hearts of heart, and most palestinians and israelis undoubtedly assume because of the deduction I have already provided?

Hey, lookit that strawman!

Never said anything about Israel letting the 3 die. That's your hopeful fiction.

[Shalona]

The only legitimate government of Palestine is Fatah. Hamas must be forcefully removed for the sake of stability within the region.