Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Roski]

The Golani Brigade has yet to explain how they lost 13 soldiers, and a tank to fucking sagger missile fire. Also, 89 of them were wounded, included 5 soldiers who are in a very very bad shape at the moment.
Is this the best the israeli military has to offer? After two days of combat on the ground, it already lost 18 soldiers. And Netanyahu wants to demilitarize Gaza? Lol, this guy is delusional. How many israeli soldiers will have to die to achieve that? Keep in mind that the IDF has not even managed to occupy parts of Gaza yet.
70% of palestinian victims are civilians, too. I don't think I really need to explain why this fact makes the casualties sustained by Hamas insignificant.

Since 2006, the IDF can't really get shit done properly. I'd be very worried if I was an israeli.

Blockaded, hungry and angry people who have nowhere to run can become pretty fearsome fighters. Does Israel remember Warsaw's ghetto?

So considering that Israel has effectively kept its borders clear, and stop major suicide attacks...

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

Yes because all Palestinians even children want to use a mobile mortar and blow up Jews.
totally

Indeed. And in the mind of certain IDF navy commanders, this justifies firing as much as two laser guided missiles on children playing on a beach.

Because "hurr, they will probably become terrorists when they grow up anyway"

Israel logic

[Evil the Great]

So considering that Israel has effectively kept its borders clear, and stop major suicide attacks...

I said "since 2006". Point is, they still failed in a gruesome way when they tried to destroy Hezbollah. Killing 1200 lebanese civilians does not count as a victory.

The ongoing operation will most likely fail as well.

[Roski]

Except of course the extermination of Jews and the fall of Israel.

Please stop making things up. It makes you look very dishonest.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-10/ ... ecognition

That shows absolutely nothing in fact.

Iran has kept peace.
You don't see them starting shit.
But what was their first promise upon recieving the ability to fire nuclear weapons?

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

Please stop making things up. It makes you look very dishonest.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-10/ ... ecognition

That shows absolutely nothing in fact.

Iran has kept peace.
You don't see them starting shit.
But what was their first promise upon recieving the ability to fire nuclear weapons?

Being able to destroy Israeli fascists.

[Calimera II]

So considering that Israel has effectively kept its borders clear, and stop major suicide attacks...

I said "since 2006". Point is, they still failed in a gruesome way when they tried to destroy Hezbollah. Killing 1200 lebanese civilians does not count as a victory.

The ongoing operation will most likely fail as well.

What would you do when Hezbollah shoots rockets to you from Lebanon?

[Roski]

That shows absolutely nothing in fact.

Iran has kept peace.
You don't see them starting shit.
But what was their first promise upon recieving the ability to fire nuclear weapons?

Being able to destroy Israeli fascists.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Please stop making things up. It makes you look very dishonest.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-10/ ... ecognition

That shows absolutely nothing in fact.

Iran has kept peace.
You don't see them starting shit.
But what was their first promise upon recieving the ability to fire nuclear weapons?

Did you fail to read the part which explicitly stated that Arafat and the PLO recognized and accepted Israel's right to exist in peace? Do you need me to assist with your reading if, for whatever reason, you can't comprehend what that article details? I think if you read that article, you'll see that not only are Fatah and Hamas polar opposites in terms of their respective ambitions for peace, but you'll also see that many Palestinians don't actually want to kill Jews.

Please accept that you are wrong and apologize for what you said. Everybody can see that you are wrong, so just accept it please.

[Evil the Great]

Iran has kept peace.

Infuckingdeed. Iran did not start a single war for the last 300 years. Nowadays they simply provide support against takfiri murderers in Syria and Iraq ( not saying that these two regimes are good, but at least they don't want to crucify entire religious groups ). And that is so helpful and useful even the USA can't do anything but approve the iranian military's actions in Iraq.

The USA, of course, was clever enough to fund the terrorists. The UK, Israel, and awfully, my country as well, France, participated in funding the various islamist militias.

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

in simple terms for blind westerners,
The Hamas is a rogue takfir organization.
The Fatah is a centre-left wing political party.

[Evil the Great]

What would you do when Hezbollah shoots rockets to you from Lebanon?

I don't know. Maybe don't shrapnell bomb Beirut while the Hezbollah's fighting force hides in underground military facilities in Southern Lebanon?

Nothing like a bit of civilian slaughter to make your enemy grow very strong, and very popular. Striking irrelevant targets on purpose never helps.

[Great Israel]

The Golani Brigade has yet to explain how they lost 13 soldiers, and a tank to fucking sagger missile fire. Also, 89 of them were wounded, included 5 soldiers who are in a very very bad shape at the moment.
Is this the best the israeli military has to offer? After two days of combat on the ground, it already lost 18 soldiers. And Netanyahu wants to demilitarize Gaza? Lol, this guy is delusional. How many israeli soldiers will have to die to achieve that? Keep in mind that the IDF has not even managed to occupy parts of Gaza yet.
70% of palestinian victims are civilians, too. I don't think I really need to explain why this fact makes the casualties sustained by Hamas insignificant.

Since 2006, the IDF can't really get shit done properly. I'd be very worried if I was an israeli.

Blockaded, hungry and angry people who have nowhere to run can become pretty fearsome fighters. Does Israel remember Warsaw's ghetto?

Oh no don't get mistaken. A military like Israel's that won a was like Six Day War, can DEFINITELY occupy Gaza in a few days. However, brutal force will have to be used against civilians. Now I know civilians are hurt anyway there and it's horrible, but it's unintentional and accidental. If Israel really needed a Gaza occupation, it would have been done in no time, and with a lot of casualties. All Israel basically does in Gaza is gettin rid of the Terror Tunnels

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

The Golani Brigade has yet to explain how they lost 13 soldiers, and a tank to fucking sagger missile fire. Also, 89 of them were wounded, included 5 soldiers who are in a very very bad shape at the moment.
Is this the best the israeli military has to offer? After two days of combat on the ground, it already lost 18 soldiers. And Netanyahu wants to demilitarize Gaza? Lol, this guy is delusional. How many israeli soldiers will have to die to achieve that? Keep in mind that the IDF has not even managed to occupy parts of Gaza yet.
70% of palestinian victims are civilians, too. I don't think I really need to explain why this fact makes the casualties sustained by Hamas insignificant.

Since 2006, the IDF can't really get shit done properly. I'd be very worried if I was an israeli.

Blockaded, hungry and angry people who have nowhere to run can become pretty fearsome fighters. Does Israel remember Warsaw's ghetto?

Oh no don't get mistaken. A military like Israel's that won a was like Six Day War, can DEFINITELY occupy Gaza in a few days. However, brutal force will have to be used against civilians. Now I know civilians are hurt anyway there and it's horrible, but it's unintentional and accidental. If Israel really needed a Gaza occupation, it would have been done in no time, and with a lot of casualties. All Israel basically does in Gaza is gettin rid of the Terror Tunnels

All the anti-Israel belligerents were dictatorships. Dictatorships go to war to make money. They didn't make enough money so they gave up.

[Yehudda]

The Golani Brigade has yet to explain how they lost 13 soldiers, and a tank to fucking sagger missile fire. Also, 89 of them were wounded, included 5 soldiers who are in a very very bad shape at the moment.
Is this the best the israeli military has to offer? After two days of combat on the ground, it already lost 18 soldiers. And Netanyahu wants to demilitarize Gaza? Lol, this guy is delusional. How many israeli soldiers will have to die to achieve that? Keep in mind that the IDF has not even managed to occupy parts of Gaza yet.
70% of palestinian victims are civilians, too. I don't think I really need to explain why this fact makes the casualties sustained by Hamas insignificant.

Since 2006, the IDF can't really get shit done properly. I'd be very worried if I was an israeli.

Blockaded, hungry and angry people who have nowhere to run can become pretty fearsome fighters. Does Israel remember Warsaw's ghetto?

Oh no don't get mistaken. A military like Israel's that won a was like Six Day War, can DEFINITELY occupy Gaza in a few days. However, brutal force will have to be used against civilians. Now I know civilians are hurt anyway there and it's horrible, but it's unintentional and accidental. If Israel really needed a Gaza occupation, it would have been done in no time, and with a lot of casualties. All Israel basically does in Gaza is gettin rid of the Terror Tunnels

Absolutely right.
The apparent objective of the operation is not to take control of the Gaza strip but rather only to harm Hamas, and destroy their tunnels.

[Costa Fierro]

The Golani Brigade has yet to explain how they lost 13 soldiers, and a tank to fucking sagger missile fire.

Those soldiers were killed over a period of 24 hours. They were killed in several different incidents, probably not uncommon for the kind of warfare they are experiencing. Seven alone were killed when an anti-tank missile hit their APC. Interestingly, a number of those killed were in vehicles hit by anti-tank missiles. Which is understandable, given that not all vehicles in the IDF are equipped with the Trophy countermeasures system and most of those that have been saved have been tanks. The fact that the missiles have engaged and defeated numerous ATGM's, including potent Kornet missiles, shows that Trophy is an operational success, as the IDF lost several tanks to Kornet missiles operated by Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Is this the best the israeli military has to offer? After two days of combat on the ground, it already lost 18 soldiers. And Netanyahu wants to demilitarize Gaza? Lol, this guy is delusional. How many israeli soldiers will have to die to achieve that? Keep in mind that the IDF has not even managed to occupy parts of Gaza yet.

It's early days yet but I don't believe that IDF losses would be much higher. Don't forget that the IDF lost 121 soldiers who were killed during ground operations in 2006 in Lebanon.

Since 2006, the IDF can't really get shit done properly. I'd be very worried if I was an israeli.

What do you mean? The IDF has not been in any large-scale ground operation since Operation Cast Lead. Everything else has predominantly been fought using air strikes and drones.

[Evil the Great]

Oh no don't get mistaken. A military like Israel's that won a was like Six Day War, can DEFINITELY occupy Gaza in a few days.

Do you have any idea of the carnage the IDF suffered during this war? And how utterly stupid arab commanders were at that time? Both sides used tanks without infantry support on multiple occasions. Epic fail.

However, brutal force will have to be used against civilians. Now I know civilians are hurt anyway there and it's horrible, but it's unintentional and accidental.

You are contradicting yourself in the most hilarious way. If brutal force, in your opinion, WILL HAVE TO BE USED AGAINST CIVILIANS, it can be at the same time unintentional and accidental.
You're implying that it is necessary.

If Israel really needed a Gaza occupation, it would have been done in no time, and with a lot of casualties. All Israel basically does in Gaza is gettin rid of the Terror Tunnels

Explain the 70% of civilian casualties. Without the human shield bullshit. The takfiris in Mali used human shields against the French army. They were destroyed, and almost no civilians died.

I did not support this intervention, but the point stands.

[Evil the Great]

Seven alone were killed when an anti-tank missile hit their APC.

It was a sagger "malyutka" missile from the 50s. That it was able to destroy a modern vehicle suggest utter and complete incompetence.

Also still, 89 guys wounded, 13 killed. And mass murder of civilians ( 20 children and 14 women, I believe ), in one day. That is called a crushing defeat.

Don't forget that the IDF lost 121 soldiers who were killed during ground operations in 2006 in Lebanon.

Oh, I don't forget. That's a pretty major failure when your ill-equipped enemy suffers "only" 500 deaths. And even moreso given the number of innocent civilians the IDF killed there as well.

What do you mean? The IDF has not been in any large-scale ground operation since Operation Cast Lead. Everything else has predominantly been fought using air strikes and drones.

I mean that went it comes to somewhat balanced fighting, the IDF finds itself in big, big trouble.

[Kapilana]

Hamas's charter says it will continue fighting a "war" against Israel, and won't ever agree to a ceasefire. It looks like they are true to their charter. They won't allow civilian Israelis even a minute's reprieve from rocket bombardment. It's only the Iron Dome that has prevented a massive hit-rate of Israeli casualties. Don't get the impression Hamas uses home-made crude mortars. They're using modern short-, medium- and long-range missiles bought illegally from supporters in other countries. Those same supporters make a payout to terrorists' families whenever a Hamas suicide bomber is killed.

How do you stop people like that? Basically the answer is extremely old-school. You have to commit to a war of attrition. Counter-terrorism is about terrorising the terrorists. You have to be madder and badder than them. For every Jew in the world, and Hamas is intent on Jew-killing until the "day of judgment" as their official policy and their "religion", there are about 92 Muslims. For there to be an-eye-for-an-eye, life-for-a-life justice, Israel would have to kill an initial 275 Palestinians just to account for the 3 kidnapped, teenagers, and further multiples for Israelis killed by rockets or as soldiers on the ground. That's just to maintain the status quo in terms of who's winning and who's losing.

But to put a stop to this situation and put an end to international criticism, Israel would really need to give everyone a one-off and final time to mourn, by wiping out the hostile enclaves in Gaza. Literally, razing it to the ground and annexing that land. All of this chaos is happening now because Israel pulled out of Gaza. It cannot win peace by holding back. It has to finish the Gaza job.

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

Hamas's charter says it will continue fighting a "war" against Israel, and won't ever agree to a ceasefire. It looks like they are true to their charter. They won't allow civilian Israelis even a minute's reprieve from rocket bombardment. It's only the Iron Dome that has prevented a massive hit-rate of Israeli casualties. Don't get the impression Hamas uses home-made crude mortars. They're using modern short-, medium- and long-range missiles bought illegally from supporters in other countries. Those same supporters make a payout to terrorists' families whenever a Hamas suicide bomber is killed.

How do you stop people like that? Basically the answer is extremely old-school. You have to commit to a war of attrition. Counter-terrorism is about terrorising the terrorists. You have to be madder and badder than them. For every Jew in the world, and Hamas is intent on Jew-killing until the "day of judgment" as their official policy and their "religion", there are about 92 Muslims. For there to be an-eye-for-an-eye, life-for-a-life justice, Israel would have to kill an initial 275 Palestinians just to account for the 3 kidnapped, teenagers, and further multiples for Israelis killed by rockets or as soldiers on the ground. That's just to maintain the status quo in terms of who's winning and who's losing.

But to put a stop to this situation and put an end to international criticism, Israel would really need to give everyone a one-off and final time to mourn, by wiping out the hostile enclaves in Gaza. Literally, razing it to the ground and annexing that land. All of this chaos is happening now because Israel pulled out of Gaza. It cannot win peace by holding back. It has to finish the Gaza job.

You realize Hamas is a brutal takfir rat organization akin to the ISIS/ISIL, FSA, Afghan Mujahideen, Taliban, Majlis and the al-Qaeda?

[Evil the Great]

Since Al-Qaeda was mentioned I just feel the need to show you this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aSn9bkteFk

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

Since Al-Qaeda was mentioned I just feel the need to show you this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aSn9bkteFk

[Evil the Great]

Yeah I know, it's pretty accurate

[Kapilana]

^It makes little difference. We could regard these takfiris as extremists, thereby identifying them by their opinions and separating them from others. That doesn't help us because those others are weak and easily browbeaten into accepting the takfiris' new order.
Alternatively we could look at them by ignoring their doctrines but instead examining the threat they pose as leaders of opinion and avant-garde/frontrunner assault forces in the societies in which they exist. This helps to explain why, for example, ISIS can actually claim to change the demographic of Islamic belief, by dint of changing the demographic of the land itself. It can pull down mosques etc. because ultimately it's war above religion.
In my view, what we've seen in Libya, Syria, Iraq and Gaza is rising evidence of the failed efforts of intelligence organisations. Subtlety doesn't seem to work whenever the militancy line is crossed. At that point all the research and policy experts, academics and heretics become a useless and expensive mistake. Western governments should send them out into the field to fight the likes of Hamas instead of constantly funneling money to them so they can claim credit for peace while the enemy just regroups and recruits.

[Cymrea]

You realize Hamas is a brutal takfir rat organization akin to the ISIS/ISIL, FSA, Afghan Mujahideen, Taliban, Majlis and the al-Qaeda?

You realise people aren't always going to discern between "takfir" organisations and "Muslims killing Jews".

Much the same way you don't discern between westerners with your deliberately provocative generalisations.

[Soviet Syrian Arab Republic]

^It makes little difference. We could regard these takfiris as extremists, thereby identifying them by their opinions and separating them from others. That doesn't help us because those others are weak and easily browbeaten into accepting the takfiris' new order.
Alternatively we could look at them by ignoring their doctrines but instead examining the threat they pose as leaders of opinion and avant-garde/frontrunner assault forces in the societies in which they exist. This helps to explain why, for example, ISIS can actually claim to change the demographic of Islamic belief, by dint of changing the demographic of the land itself. It can pull down mosques etc. because ultimately it's war above religion.
In my view, what we've seen in Libya, Syria, Iraq and Gaza is rising evidence of the failed efforts of intelligence organisations. Subtlety doesn't seem to work whenever the militancy line is crossed. At that point all the research and policy experts, academics and heretics become a useless and expensive mistake. Western governments should send them out into the field to fight the likes of Hamas instead of constantly funneling money to them so they can claim credit for peace while the enemy just regroups and recruits.

Iraqi Mukhābarāt states otherwise...