NationStates

Doitsu-san wrote:

Talanzaar wrote:
You can't pin these deaths on Hamas. The "civilians as human shields" and "hiding weapons in civilians homes" arguments are flat out lies and if you look at any of the recent deaths, you can see that too. And a better idea would be if both sides came to the table, negotiated a long term agreement and a two state solution and maintained peace together

We've already pretty much determined that Hamas isn't taking proper measures to remove civilians from harm earlier in the thread. They could clear out blocks before they launch rockets, they could hide their weapons in warehouses instead of public facilities, and use standardized uniforms instead of donning civilian clothing. A two state solution is only negotiable when terrorist organizations, such as Hamas, are removed from the table and when Palestine is willing to cooperate with Israel to maintain order.

I didn't mean that Hamas had no blame, of course they did. I know that they couldn't found an effective way of making peace, but they didn't.

Alyakia wrote:itt a bunch of europeans and descents of european colonialists decide whether you are a real ethnicity or not and also whether you should be driven into the sea

Israel is not colonial because, by definition, to be colonial means to be ruled by a ruling nation as for example Spain ruled over Mexico and the United Kingdom ruled over America. There was no Jewish 'motherland' of a nation which formed Israel as a colony. Israel came into existence through legal transactions and mandates. And lastly, most Israelis are not of European descent. 20 percent of Israel's population is Arab-Muslim, Christian, and Druze and over 35 percent of Israel's Jewish population is Middle Eastern, Ethiopian and other (Chinese, etc.), so it is quite ignorant to refer to European Jews as synonymous to all Israelis.

Alyakia wrote:

North Calaveras wrote:
oh I most certainly can pin deaths on Hamas

you know what, great idea, give the palestinians a full on state, that way they can be invaded in full.

or bombing a beach full of people watching the world cup. you could start there as well.

i am flat out going to come out and say that i don't think you know israel has already occupied gaza at least once and invaded at least twice now. (this is an invasion)

Israel cannot control mortars and where they hit. Once it is in the air, there is no reign over it. But you don't understand this because you have obviously never worked with one. All you know how to do is criticise what you don't understand.

Bouchard wrote:

Alyakia wrote:
or bombing a beach full of people watching the world cup. you could start there as well.

i am flat out going to come out and say that i don't think you know israel has already occupied gaza at least once and invaded at least twice now. (this is an invasion)

Israel cannot control mortars and where they hit. Once it is in the air, there is no reign over it. But you don't understand this because you have obviously never worked with one. All you know how to do is criticise what you don't understand.

Israel usually uses drones, bro.

Bouchard wrote:

Alyakia wrote:itt a bunch of europeans and descents of european colonialists decide whether you are a real ethnicity or not and also whether you should be driven into the sea

Israel is not colonial because, by definition, to be colonial means to be ruled by a ruling nation as for example Spain ruled over Mexico and the United Kingdom ruled over America. There was no Jewish 'motherland' of a nation which formed Israel as a colony. Israel came into existence through legal transactions and mandates. And lastly, most Israelis are not of European descent. 20 percent of Israel's population is Arab-Muslim, Christian, and Druze and over 35 percent of Israel's Jewish population is Middle Eastern, Ethiopian and other (Chinese, etc.), so it is quite ignorant to refer to European Jews as synonymous to all Israelis.

i meant americans, etc. posting in this thread

Bouchard wrote:

Alyakia wrote:
or bombing a beach full of people watching the world cup. you could start there as well.

i am flat out going to come out and say that i don't think you know israel has already occupied gaza at least once and invaded at least twice now. (this is an invasion)

Israel cannot control mortars and where they hit. Once it is in the air, there is no reign over it. But you don't understand this because you have obviously never worked with one. All you know how to do is criticise what you don't understand.

it was a gunboat

anything else?

e: oh, in the other case, there were no militants or military assets on the beach so they never should have aimed there in the first place :-)

e2: and it still wasn't a mortar it was a guided missile. they are called guided because they can guide them very well.

Bouchard wrote:

Alyakia wrote:
or bombing a beach full of people watching the world cup. you could start there as well.

i am flat out going to come out and say that i don't think you know israel has already occupied gaza at least once and invaded at least twice now. (this is an invasion)

Israel cannot control mortars and where they hit. Once it is in the air, there is no reign over it. But you don't understand this because you have obviously never worked with one. All you know how to do is criticise what you don't understand.

No need for personal attacks

Merizoc wrote:

Saiwania wrote:This should serve as the casus belli for Israel invading Gaza. They've been given more than enough chances, it is time for the Palestinians to be evicted from there and the land permanently annexed to the Jewish state.

So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

It is not that simple. Israel demanded that the PA find the murderers who murdered the three Israelis, but the PA refused, allowing the murderers to go on with their life free from punishment, then Hamas militants started blowing rockets towards Israel. Israel invaded Gaza to destroy the missiles and to destroy the underground tunnels which Hamas militants were using to enter Israel. If Canadian extremists were building underground tunnels to sneak into the United States to causes terror, it would completely justify a US invasion of Canada. Why would Israel just sit back and allow a violation of its security?

Israel....ethical...yeah about as ethical as someone else who took over much of Europe during the 1940s. Which, is in itself a very extreme irony; since, I would expect a Jewish state to be entirely one in promoting peace since its inception...and not continually enraging their neighbors during the mid-20th century and basically doing a repeat of the Crusades except its Jews versus Muslims and not Christians versus Muslims.

I mean when you get down to the basics the whole escapade started during the 60s and 70s when Israel invaded several territories (West Bank, Golan Heights, and wouldn't you have thought it! GAZA). That and the whole idea of, "Hey you native Palestinians who have been here for as long as us if not longer...well our holy book says this land is ours so we are going to put you in...um...how should I word this correctly...oh wait I got it...special communities for resettlement."

*raises hand* "You mean like how the Nazis resettled the Jews? Well resettling into concentration camps?"

"Yeah pretty much...minus the whole systematic genocide but everything else is pretty much the same concept."

So is Israel innocent? um no plain and simple. Are all Israelis genocidal and warmongers? No, just bad things happened over the past 100 years and we are still seeing the effects. Are the Arab states and Hamas warmongers and all terrorists? No they are not and while not entirely innocent the vast majority of both sides I believe are innocent in their daily lives or just unfortunate to be living under the circumstance. Do I wish none of this happened? Yes, I wish the three teens made it home safe and further lives are not being lost over this whole debacle.

Is this one side versus the other? No, only shades of grey.

That's my two cents.

Imperialisium wrote:Israel....ethical...yeah about as ethical as someone else who took over much of Europe during the 1940s. Which, is in itself a very extreme irony; since, I would expect a Jewish state to be entirely one in promoting peace since its inception...and not continually enraging their neighbors during the mid-20th century and basically doing a repeat of the Crusades except its Jews versus Muslims and not Christians versus Muslims.

I mean when you get down to the basics the whole escapade started during the 60s and 70s when Israel invaded several territories (West Bank, Golan Heights, and wouldn't you have thought it! GAZA). That and the whole idea of, "Hey you native Palestinians who have been here for as long as us if not longer...well our holy book says this land is ours so we are going to put you in...um...how should I word this correctly...oh wait I got it...special communities for resettlement."

*raises hand* "You mean like how the Nazis resettled the Jews? Well resettling into concentration camps?"

"Yeah pretty much...minus the whole systematic genocide but everything else is pretty much the same concept."

So is Israel innocent? um no plain and simple. Are all Israelis genocidal and warmongers? No, just bad things happened over the past 100 years and we are still seeing the effects. Are the Arab states and Hamas warmongers and all terrorists? No they are not and while not entirely innocent the vast majority of both sides I believe are innocent in their daily lives or just unfortunate to be living under the circumstance. Do I wish none of this happened? Yes, I wish the three teens made it home safe and further lives are not being lost over this whole debacle.

Is this one side versus the other? No, only shades of grey.

That's my two cents.

This guy's got it. ^^

Bouchard wrote:

Merizoc wrote:So if someone from Canada murders a US citizen, the US should invade Canada? Makes perfect sense.

It is not that simple. Israel demanded that the PA find the murderers who murdered the three Israelis, but the PA refused, allowing the murderers to go on with their life free from punishment, then Hamas militants started blowing rockets towards Israel. Israel invaded Gaza to destroy the missiles and to destroy the underground tunnels which Hamas militants were using to enter Israel. If Canadian extremists were building underground tunnels to sneak into the United States to causes terror, it would completely justify a US invasion of Canada. Why would Israel just sit back and allow a violation of its security?

actually you missed out 100s of arrests at least 80 of which were not related to hamas in any way, but as far as i know most of which were related to hamas including many previously freed in prisoner exchanges and all of hamas west bank leadership (there is no evidence hamas was reponsible for the murders) and 1,000s of homes damaged in searches (with jewelery etc. being confiscated with no evidence the proceeds were being used for terror) and 100s of homes destroyed, not a single one involving a trial before doing so. then the rockets came. the first that hamas has fired since 2012. (since someone got confused, yes, there were a few rockets since 2012. none of them were from hamas. hamas are not the omnipotent god kings of plaestine and all palestinains, unlike what some posters appear to believe)

There is no JEWISH state. It is a fucking ISRAELI one.

A Jewish and only Jewish one is a dream of far-right morons from Likud, Israel Beytanu, etc.

And please stop with the "historical rights" of the Jewish people.Who really are modern Jews? Read again the masterpiece of Shlomo Sand...

AD-DAWLA AL-ISLAMIYYA wrote:There is no JEWISH state. It is a fucking ISRAELI one.

A Jewish and only Jewish one is a dream of far-right morons from Likud, Israel Beytanu, etc.

And please stop with the "historical rights" of the Jewish people.Who really are modern Jews? Read again the masterpiece of Shlomo Sand...

It's a Jewish state inasmuch Finland is a Finnish one.

Bouchard wrote:

Alyakia wrote:itt a bunch of europeans and descents of european colonialists decide whether you are a real ethnicity or not and also whether you should be driven into the sea

Israel is not colonial because, by definition, to be colonial means to be ruled by a ruling nation as for example Spain ruled over Mexico and the United Kingdom ruled over America. There was no Jewish 'motherland' of a nation which formed Israel as a colony. Israel came into existence through legal transactions and mandates. And lastly, most Israelis are not of European descent. 20 percent of Israel's population is Arab-Muslim, Christian, and Druze and over 35 percent of Israel's Jewish population is Middle Eastern, Ethiopian and other (Chinese, etc.), so it is quite ignorant to refer to European Jews as synonymous to all Israelis.

Well they think they're friggin christopher columbus

Albionum wrote:Go Israel!

1. The Jewish state has a right to self-determination.
2. It has the right to peace.
3. It has the historic right to land.
4. It hasn't been defeated in any war they've fought.

1. So does every state, besides Israël isn't even a Jewish state, more like a Zionist one.
2. So does Palestine.
3. No it doesn't.
4. Yes it has.

I don't know what's more disturbing; the influx of Armchair Kahanism here in this thread, or that I'm hardly surprised by it.

Gauthier wrote:I don't know what's more disturbing; the influx of Armchair Kahanism here in this thread, or that I'm hardly surprised by it.

It is summer

Gauthier wrote:I don't know what's more disturbing; the influx of Armchair Kahanism here in this thread, or that I'm hardly surprised by it.

To be honest, Yehudah or whatever his name was isn't here, so it's already something.

Jordan should have been Palestine, Winston Churchill gave it to the arabs.

Iuronia wrote:

Gauthier wrote:I don't know what's more disturbing; the influx of Armchair Kahanism here in this thread, or that I'm hardly surprised by it.

To be honest, Yehudah or whatever his name was isn't here, so it's already something.

Boo!

So, there's a protest in the Netherlands. The people attending it were told that this was a protest against Israel's use of force in Gaza, and that they should refrain from making it about religion.
Then, someone shouted "Takbir" and almost everyone shouted "Allahu Akbar!" I bet the guilt-ridden white progressives there felt uneasy. Well, at least they haven't been sieging synagogues.

The nearby Anne Frank museum now has more people guarding it.
Similar protests in Belgium and France got out of hand and turned into violent riots.

#SaveGaza

Republika Srpska Party wrote:#SaveGaza

Tim Howard is busy right now.

To be honest I don't know what these protests accomplish.

Nothing short of invading Israel will be enough.