Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[The balkens]

Ler me be clear: I don't support Hamas or any terror organization. I do support Palestine as a people. I'm sure they are sick and tired of this war. So why doesn't the Palestianians kick out those terrorists?

Because they're the only people who will stand up to Israel because even though the Palestinian Authority is all about peace they still get shit all from Israel. Not to mention Israel killing thousands of people in Gaza gives Hamas a lot of new recruits who are very angry.

Its a cycle.

Bomb, vengeance, bomb, more vengeance, bomb, even more vengeance.

[The balkens]

Because they're the only people who will stand up to Israel because even though the Palestinian Authority is all about peace they still get shit all from Israel. Not to mention Israel killing thousands of people in Gaza gives Hamas a lot of new recruits who are very angry.

They're the only people to stand up to us cause of the war in '67. 3 against 1 and israel beat them in 6 days. May I mention that Hamas hides in schools and hospitals as well

And Israel bombs said buildings and they wonder why people get pissed.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because they're the only people who will stand up to Israel because even though the Palestinian Authority is all about peace they still get shit all from Israel. Not to mention Israel killing thousands of people in Gaza gives Hamas a lot of new recruits who are very angry.

They're the only people to stand up to us cause of the war in '67. 3 against 1 and israel beat them in 6 days. May I mention that Hamas hides in schools and hospitals as well

Too bad there's no evidence they hid anything in populated buildings. There was real evidence of them hiding weapons in one UN school, and it had been vacant for a number of months.

[Jagellion]

Well I gtg but it was nice debating

[Kalosia]

I've also noticed that, while the Palestinian death toll at any given time far outnumbers the number of Israel civilian casualties, the amount is still not as big compared to many other conflicts.

I added up numbers from Wikipedia (sourced from B'Tselem) to find that a total of 62,000 Palestinians have been killed in conflict since 1947. That's almost 70 years and it hasn't reached a million. While these lives killed are just as valuable as those from any other tragedy, I find the amount of support for Palestine a bit... overwhelming? Excessive? Compared to other conflicts. Is it media bias?

Also I'll be grateful if anyone can find a more reliable source, I couldn't.

[Geilinor]

I've also noticed that, while the Palestinian death toll at any given time far outnumbers the number of Israel civilian casualties, the amount is still not as big compared to many other conflicts.

I added up numbers from Wikipedia (sourced from B'Tselem) to find that a total of 62,000 Palestinians have been killed in conflict since 1947. That's almost 70 years and it hasn't reached a million. While these lives killed are just as valuable as those from any other tragedy, I find the amount of support for Palestine a bit... overwhelming? Excessive? Compared to other conflicts. Is it media bias?

Also I'll be grateful if anyone can find a more reliable source, I couldn't.

It's true that this isn't so deadly as other conflicts, but with the combination of religion and land, it becomes one that most countries are committed to perpetuating.

[Jagellion]

I've also noticed that, while the Palestinian death toll at any given time far outnumbers the number of Israel civilian casualties, the amount is still not as big compared to many other conflicts.

I added up numbers from Wikipedia (sourced from B'Tselem) to find that a total of 62,000 Palestinians have been killed in conflict since 1947. That's almost 70 years and it hasn't reached a million. While these lives killed are just as valuable as those from any other tragedy, I find the amount of support for Palestine a bit... overwhelming? Excessive? Compared to other conflicts. Is it media bias?

Also I'll be grateful if anyone can find a more reliable source, I couldn't.

Ik insaid I had to go but I'm addicted, this will be my last post. Here is a link. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... total.html

[Kalosia]

Ik insaid I had to go but I'm addicted, this will be my last post. Here is a link. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... total.html

Thank you! I'm kinda worried such sources are biased tho, by giving smaller figures than the facts. Pro-Palestinian sources, on the other hand, might give bigger numbers but it says something if they're still small anyway.

It's true that this isn't so deadly as other conflicts, but with the combination of religion and land, it becomes one that most countries are committed to perpetuating.

During a Friday prayer session at my local mosque at the time of Operation Protective Edge, the man giving the week's speech said something on how Jews are told in their religion to kill Muslims or something. I really don't like when Muslims are antisemitic, it's no different than regular Islamophobia except with a different religion. Anti-Zionism on the other hand, is considerably tolerable. Unfortunately many people still don't know the difference.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Ler me be clear: I don't support Hamas or any terror organization. I do support Palestine as a people. I'm sure they are sick and tired of this war. So why doesn't the Palestianians kick out those terrorists?

Why don't Israelis kick out their terrorists (that are actually effective)?

[Alyakia]

Ler me be clear: I don't support Hamas or any terror organization. I do support Palestine as a people. I'm sure they are sick and tired of this war. So why doesn't the Palestianians kick out those terrorists?

not like there was a civil war between hamas and ooooooooooooooh...

[North Calaveras]

Ler me be clear: I don't support Hamas or any terror organization. I do support Palestine as a people. I'm sure they are sick and tired of this war. So why doesn't the Palestianians kick out those terrorists?

not like there was a civil war between hamas and ooooooooooooooh...

islamic extremists don't get along with eachother, we get it

dosn't stop them from teaming up to kill infidels..

[Gauthier]

Ever hear of the survival of the fittest? It's a natural phenomenon that even species go through. The weak die from the stronger carnivorous counterparts, just like unfortunately the British and Americans do to the natives.

Social Darwinism? It's really, really fucking bad.

Especially because it's become a convenient excuse for class stratification.

[Gauthier]

not like there was a civil war between hamas and ooooooooooooooh...

islamic extremists don't get along with eachother, we get it

dosn't stop them from teaming up to kill infidels..

Because 1 to 3 casualties a year is clearly a kill streak.

[Novus America]

I don't watch this thread but I believe I'm not the first to point out the United States of America and Israel were founded in similar ways, making things like these... not having a very strong point.
(Image)

What do you think is the main reason people generally do not acknowledge the US's actions but actively and passionately point out literally everything that Israel does?

Maybe the fact that one of them happened hundreds of years ago and the other happening now is a main reason, but surely there must be a lot of antizionism (and veiled antisemitism - the two not interchangeable) coming into play?

edit: Despite the above, I find that Israel's actions are still no less excusable than the genocide of millions of Native Americans, even though the latter has done much more damage.

Um the estimate of those killed in the American Indian wars is some 19,000 whites and maybe 60,000 Native Americans/Amerindians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The worst single incident, the Trail of Tears killed 2,000 to 6,000.

There were truly horrible crimes committed by the U.S., but no genocide of millions. There are at least 3 to 5 million Native Americans/Amerindians in the U.S. today.

People keep talking about the Native Americans all being killed. That simply did not happen.

[Aelex]

Um the estimate of those killed in the American Indian wars is some 19,000 whites and maybe 60,000 Native Americans/Amerindians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The worst single incident, the Trail of Tears killed 2,000 to 6,000.

There were truly horrible crimes committed by the U.S., but no genocide of millions. There are at least 3 to 5 million Native Americans/Amerindians in the U.S. today.

People keep talking about the Native Americans all being killed. That simply did not happen.

Seem like someone here really believed that pocahontas had told him the truth. Sorry to say you that yeah it indeed happened.

[Kubra]

I don't watch this thread but I believe I'm not the first to point out the United States of America and Israel were founded in similar ways, making things like these... not having a very strong point.
(Image)

What do you think is the main reason people generally do not acknowledge the US's actions but actively and passionately point out literally everything that Israel does?

Maybe the fact that one of them happened hundreds of years ago and the other happening now is a main reason, but surely there must be a lot of antizionism (and veiled antisemitism - the two not interchangeable) coming into play?

edit: Despite the above, I find that Israel's actions are still no less excusable than the genocide of millions of Native Americans, even though the latter has done much more damage.

Um the estimate of those killed in the American Indian wars is some 19,000 whites and maybe 60,000 Native Americans/Amerindians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The worst single incident, the Trail of Tears killed 2,000 to 6,000.

There were truly horrible crimes committed by the U.S., but no genocide of millions. There are at least 3 to 5 million Native Americans/Amerindians in the U.S. today.

People keep talking about the Native Americans all being killed. That simply did not happen.

Before contact with european civilization, those population numbers were estimated to be around 2.1 mil to 18 mil, with supposedly 90% of the population being wiped out. Disease is a hell of a thing, bruh.
Besides, Indian affairs straight up admitted that they were in the business of ethnic cleansing.

[Novus America]

I've also noticed that, while the Palestinian death toll at any given time far outnumbers the number of Israel civilian casualties, the amount is still not as big compared to many other conflicts.

I added up numbers from Wikipedia (sourced from B'Tselem) to find that a total of 62,000 Palestinians have been killed in conflict since 1947. That's almost 70 years and it hasn't reached a million. While these lives killed are just as valuable as those from any other tragedy, I find the amount of support for Palestine a bit... overwhelming? Excessive? Compared to other conflicts. Is it media bias?

Also I'll be grateful if anyone can find a more reliable source, I couldn't.

It's true that this isn't so deadly as other conflicts, but with the combination of religion and land, it becomes one that most countries are committed to perpetuating.

Herein lies the problem. FAR more people died in the Sudan. But the Sudan is not used to score as many political points. For example what does the government of mostly Persian Shia Iran really care about the mostly Sunni Arab Muslims? Nothing of course. But it is a nice way to keep people distrated from the harms inflicted by the rule of the throughly corrupt neo-feudalist ruling caste.

Bread and circuses. The Israel Palestine conflict is the circus used by the brutal and corrupt regimes that rule much of the Middle to keep the people distracted from the misrule and oppression.

So the Iranian regime, and other regimes WANT fighting. WANT Palestianians to die. Ending the conflict would be a political disaster for them.

And Israel has no real need to end the conflict, and some politicians there use it too. And the corrupt rulers of the Palestianians Arabs like Fatah and Hamas also benefit.

So there is not really any will to end things. Keeping a low level conflict going forever and always in the media benefits too many politically.

[Novus America]

Um the estimate of those killed in the American Indian wars is some 19,000 whites and maybe 60,000 Native Americans/Amerindians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The worst single incident, the Trail of Tears killed 2,000 to 6,000.

There were truly horrible crimes committed by the U.S., but no genocide of millions. There are at least 3 to 5 million Native Americans/Amerindians in the U.S. today.

People keep talking about the Native Americans all being killed. That simply did not happen.

Seem like someone here really believed that pocahontas had told him the truth. Sorry to say you that yeah it indeed happened.

The vast majority died from disease long before the U.S. existed. Was it tragic? Of course!

But that does not mean the U.S. government did it. Just because you hate the U.S. does not make every bad thing the fault of the U.S.

"As the direct result of infectious diseases, wars between tribes, wars with Europeans, migration to Canada and Mexico, declining birth rates, and of assimilation, the numbers of Native Americans dropped to below one million in the 19th century. Scholars believe that the overwhelming main causes were new infectious diseases carried by European explorers and traders. Native Americans had no acquired immunity to such diseases, which had been chronic in Eurasian populations for over five centuries.[5] For instance, some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80–90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

[Novus America]

Um the estimate of those killed in the American Indian wars is some 19,000 whites and maybe 60,000 Native Americans/Amerindians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The worst single incident, the Trail of Tears killed 2,000 to 6,000.

There were truly horrible crimes committed by the U.S., but no genocide of millions. There are at least 3 to 5 million Native Americans/Amerindians in the U.S. today.

People keep talking about the Native Americans all being killed. That simply did not happen.

Before contact with european civilization, those population numbers were estimated to be around 2.1 mil to 18 mil, with supposedly 90% of the population being wiped out. Disease is a hell of a thing, bruh.
Besides, Indian affairs straight up admitted that they were in the business of ethnic cleansing.

A, they were not all killed. Fact. I am sure the 3 to 5 million alive will be to surprised to learn they are dead.

B, deaths by disease before the U.S. government existed cannot be attributed to the U.S. government.

C, ethnic cleansing =/= genocide, although genocide is just one form of ethnic cleansing. Forced relocation is ethnic cleansing, not always genocide.

And yes the Trail of Tears was a horrible example of ethnic cleansing and genocidal in that nothing was done to prevent deaths.

But that is simply not the genocide of millions. Fact. The genocide of thousands is not the genocide of millions.

Same thing with Israel. Horrible things have been done. But also do not exaggerate.

[Kubra]

Before contact with european civilization, those population numbers were estimated to be around 2.1 mil to 18 mil, with supposedly 90% of the population being wiped out. Disease is a hell of a thing, bruh.
Besides, Indian affairs straight up admitted that they were in the business of ethnic cleansing.

A, they were not all killed. Fact. I am sure the 3 to 5 million alive will be to surprised to learn they were dead.

B, deaths by disease before the U.S. government existed cannot be attributed to the U.S. government.

C, ethnic cleansing =/= genocide, although genocide is just one form of ethnic cleansing. Forced relocation is epic cleansing, not genocide.
And yes the Trail of Tears was a horrible example of ethnic cleansing and genocidal in that nothing was done to prevent deaths.

But that is simply not the genocide of millions. Fact. The genocide of thousands is not the genocide of millions.

Same thing with Israel. Horrible things have been done. But also do not exaggerate.

I don't know if you know, but the global population increase in the last century was by around 7 billion, waaaaay more than in any previous century. Obviously, 3 to 5 million isn't much of a number, given the total population, and considering their previous population.
idk all the deliberate smallpox infection, camp massacres, and death by dislocation bits are a bit genocidy. And that aside, that there are 8 million armenians in the world doesn't mean that the armenians didn't get straight up genocided.

I mean, maybe not to the feds entirely, but hey the feds are government founded by white settlers, and their colonization of the new world was what caused their population decline. In the writings of colonists, they were totally aware of what was going on, and it didn't exactly stop them from continuing to stick around and be all disease-y and go further inland whilst continuing to be disease'y.

[Novus America]

A, they were not all killed. Fact. I am sure the 3 to 5 million alive will be to surprised to learn they were dead.

B, deaths by disease before the U.S. government existed cannot be attributed to the U.S. government.

C, ethnic cleansing =/= genocide, although genocide is just one form of ethnic cleansing. Forced relocation is epic cleansing, not genocide.
And yes the Trail of Tears was a horrible example of ethnic cleansing and genocidal in that nothing was done to prevent deaths.

But that is simply not the genocide of millions. Fact. The genocide of thousands is not the genocide of millions.

Same thing with Israel. Horrible things have been done. But also do not exaggerate.

I don't know if you know, but the global population increase in the last century was by around 7 billion, waaaaay more than in any previous century. Obviously, 3 to 5 million isn't much of a number, given the total population, and considering their previous population.
idk all the deliberate smallpox infection, camp massacres, and death by dislocation bits are a bit genocidy. And that aside, that there are 8 million armenians in the world doesn't mean that the armenians didn't get straight up genocided.

I mean, maybe not to the feds entirely, but hey the feds are government founded by white settlers, and their colonization of the new world was what caused their population decline. In the writings of colonists, they were totally aware of what was going on, and it didn't exactly stop them from continuing to stick around and be all disease-y and go further inland whilst continuing to be disease'y.

Assimilation and intermarriage means that 3 to 5 million number does do not reflect the whole picture.
But nobody is denying millions died from disease before there was a U.S.

But that mostly happened before the U.S.

There was genocide.
And the U.S. did commit genocidal actions, nobody is denying that. But it was thousands by the U.S., not millions.

Is Italy responsible for the crimes of the Roman Empire? And by the time of the arrival of English settlers most of the damage by disease had already been done as the Spanish so it would make more sense to blame Mexico as the successor to New Spain, although that also makes no sense.

And people moving despite having disease is different than just genocide, did the Mongols Genocide Europeans with the Plague? Is it fair to say modern Mongolia genocided millions for the crimes of the Mongol Empire?

The point is be honest, and do not blame one group for what others did.

[Parhe]

I look as Palestine and cannot help but see it as Korea's fate had it not been saved, partially, thanks to the Americans. A group of people under the belief it is their right to a land with it's own people already.

Ideally, but now unrealistic, I would just hope Israel would forcibly invade and annex the Palestine State, allow all refugees and descendants to return, and grant both groups citizenship. Set up a country ruled by law, with a separation between church and state, and let democracy take it's course.

[Kubra]

I don't know if you know, but the global population increase in the last century was by around 7 billion, waaaaay more than in any previous century. Obviously, 3 to 5 million isn't much of a number, given the total population, and considering their previous population.
idk all the deliberate smallpox infection, camp massacres, and death by dislocation bits are a bit genocidy. And that aside, that there are 8 million armenians in the world doesn't mean that the armenians didn't get straight up genocided.

I mean, maybe not to the feds entirely, but hey the feds are government founded by white settlers, and their colonization of the new world was what caused their population decline. In the writings of colonists, they were totally aware of what was going on, and it didn't exactly stop them from continuing to stick around and be all disease-y and go further inland whilst continuing to be disease'y.

Assimilation and intermarriage means that 3 to 5 million number does do not reflect the whole picture.
But nobody is denying millions died from disease before there was a U.S.

But that mostly happened before the U.S.

There was genocide.
And the U.S. did commit genocidal actions, nobody is denying that. But it was thousands by the U.S., not millions.

Is Italy responsible for the crimes of the Roman Empire? And by the time of the arrival of English settlers most of the damage by disease had already been done as the Spanish so it would make more sense to blame Mexico as the successor to New Spain, although that also makes no sense.

And people moving despite having disease is different than just genocide, did the Mongols Genocide Europeans with the Plague? Is it fair to say modern Mongolia genocided millions for the crimes of the Mongol Empire?

The point is be honest, and do not blame one group for what others did.

idk you seem to be denying it by saying that because there's a few mil around that there was no death of millions, like yo may as well say there was no holodomor because the USSR population was till huge.
If the Roman Empire or a directly-related successor state were in place on the italian continent, it'd be worth an admittance of any crimes.
And I don't think you realize that english and french settlers were around and wrote about watching the native population dying of an all too familiar disease. A lot of changes were made in how we practice medicine as a result of the black plague, including the importance of hygiene (more so than previously, than anyways) and the use of quarantine to control the spread of infection. Of course, there's no evidence of european settlers teaching the native population anything about disease. Funny story: french jesuits operating in among tribes, despite having some degree of medical training (it involved bleeding, but hey, they thought it worked), rarely used that training among the tribes sick. Rather, they were in the business of baptising the dying whilst no one was looking.

[Arkmenistan (Ancient)]

free palestine from hamas
https://youtu.be/xwIxuODeh3s

or hamas make children fight
http://atlassociety.org/sites/default/f ... irport.jpg

[WCJNSTBH]

free palestine from hamas
https://youtu.be/xwIxuODeh3s

or hamas make children fight
http://atlassociety.org/sites/default/f ... irport.jpg

Might as well fight, since they're already targets.