Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Blakk Metal]

Not successfully anyway.

do you legit think israel is appeasing hamas

is this something that you actually think

No, I'm saying that what you want Israel to do, and that's a terrible idea.

Indeed. Israel has offered a lifting of the blockade in exchange for the demilitarization of Gaza in adherence to the UNSC Resolution taken after Israel unilaterally withdrew...

...that is not appeasement

Yes it is. Appeasement in this context is giving something to someone in order to make them peaceful.

[Alyakia]

do you legit think israel is appeasing hamas

is this something that you actually think

No, I'm saying that what you want Israel to do, and that's a terrible idea.

...that is not appeasement

Yes it is. Appeasement in this context is giving something to someone in order to make them peaceful.

appeasement implies one-sidedness. "become a demilitarized puppet state and we will let you have fruit juice" is not appeasement no matter how hard you try and spin it.

[Lexicor]

No, I'm saying that what you want Israel to do, and that's a terrible idea.

Yes it is. Appeasement in this context is giving something to someone in order to make them peaceful.

appeasement implies one-sidedness. "become a demilitarized puppet state and we will let you have fruit juice" is not appeasement no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Hamas is not a state.

[Alyakia]

appeasement implies one-sidedness. "become a demilitarized puppet state and we will let you have fruit juice" is not appeasement no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Hamas is not a state.

emphasis on become, feel free to change it to "become a demilitarized puppet area of indeterminate legal status changing depending on whatever suits israeli interests the most at any given moment and we will let you have fruit juice" if you just can't get over the word.

[Lexicor]

Hamas is not a state.

emphasis on become, feel free to change it to "become a demilitarized puppet area of indeterminate legal status changing depending on whatever suits israeli interests the most at any given moment and we will let you have fruit juice" if you just can't get over the word.

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

[Great Israel]

emphasis on become, feel free to change it to "become a demilitarized puppet area of indeterminate legal status changing depending on whatever suits israeli interests the most at any given moment and we will let you have fruit juice" if you just can't get over the word.

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, but controlling Gaza as a state. now, Israel doesnt say ""become a demilitarized puppet area of indeterminate legal status changing depending on whatever suits israeli interests the most at any given moment and we will let you have fruit juice"" as you say it. all they say is, "Quit launching rockets at us, quit abusing your own Palestinian people, put your weapons down, show us you want peace, and in exchange, Gaza will be the next Singapore". thats what unfortunately Israel is saying now. they said it in 2005 as well, but they didnt learn a lesson, the lesson that says Hamas will not take the millions it receives from the world in order to build schools, pre-schools and hospitals, but to build Terror Tunnels and make weapons to again, hit Israel, and again, people like Alyakia will say Israel does those things, i wonder why..
and by the way, the blockade does not exist to deliberately torture Palestinians, it exists because without blockade, your peaceful Iranian regime pals will arm Hamas again.

to cut a long story short, Hamas broke at least 6 ceasefires, including the latest 72 hours ceasefire, Rebuilding of Gaza for Demilitarization of Hamas. sounds like a pretty sweet deal, only Hamas will never listen to their Abu Adolf Mazen (Yes, thats us Far-rightists call Mahoud Abbas in Israel) "pal" because Khaled Mesha'al is too busy enjoying the Qatar's royal castle and make his own people suffer.

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

No, it massacres civilians.

Massacre implies it does so deliberately. Civilians? According to who? How many? Were they being completely innocent/non threatening?

Gaza Health Ministry: 1,880 killed[16] and 10,000 wounded[17] (80% civilians)[18]
PCHR: 1,976 killed (1,643 civilians)[19]

UN OCHA: 1,849 killed (1,354 civilians, 216 militants, 279 unknown)[20]

ITIC: 1,552 killed (480 civilians, 467 militants, 605 unknown)[21]

IDF: 1,768 killed[22] (900 militants)[23]

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

No, it massacres civilians.

Most of those killings are justified. More than a few are not, but most are.

80% are civilians, lots of children. I don't think "justified" is the word to describe the Israeli attacks

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

Also, Israel is currently fighting Hamas, a terror group.

By killing/maiming/burning/disabling children/babies/women/elderly/men(hamas and civilian).
Palestinians have been tortured, killed, displaced, humiliated since before 1948, I don't think we can call Hamas "terrorist" without analysing Israel's actions.

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

not gonna lie. i actually did a little laugh and my cheeks puffed out and the air make a little "pfft" noise when i read this.

It's true that Israel doesn't have the best track record when it comes to following international law, but they aren't quite so bad as Saddam Hussein was. They probably even beat a decent number of their neighbors in that department as well, considering the genocidal and bigoted policies that many of said neighbors have implemented.

I can see why it was done, but I don't really support it. They were a minority in the area they claimed

We've been over this. A minority within one group's imaginary lines might not be a minority in another group's imaginary lines. Otherwise, the Kurds, the Americans, the Tibetans, the Ukrainian Russians, the Chechnyans, and a multitude of other groups would have no claim to statehood. Likewise, the Palestinians would also have no claim to independent statehood either.

and it has caused nothing but problems since it was founded.

Yes, let's ignore the scientific, technological, and archaeological research that would never have happened had Israel not been established, and disregard the Israelis who made such groundbreaking discoveries possible. We should do the same with every other country that has ever seceded from a larger entity as well, including every single Arab state.

Not to mention the UN fucked over Palestine by giving the minority the majority of the land, it was obviously going to cause problems.

Nope. The Arab leadership wanted a violent conflict and the ethnic cleansing of the Jews. They fucked themselves over by choosing war over diplomacy because they never had any intention of living next to filthy ethnic minorities and infidels, unless they agreed to kowtow to Arab nationalism. See the Kurds for an example of how well this has gone for said ethnic minorities. See Shiite and Sunni minorities for numerous examples of how well this has gone for said infidels.

Nowadays, Israel is here to stay but they are no better then any of the nations around them.

Israel does not stone women for breaking religious laws, does not commit democide or genocide on the scale of Syria, Iraq, or Turkey, does not persecute religious minorities as harshly as Saudi Arabia or Iran, does not threaten to wipe other nations from the pages of history, and does not enforce religious law as strictly as many of its neighbors. It is more stable than Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and several other neighbors, and has a higher quality of life than practically all of them as well. I would like to know what makes one country better than another in your eyes.

Syria under Assad also has freedom of religion and strong minority protection. Doesn't mean it's a good state.

Syria is a regime which, while nominally secular, favors the Alawite minority and people who are related to the reigning dictator. Sunnis are not treated equally. Kurds are not treated equally. Both groups have risen up in rebellion against the aforementioned despotic dictator, and he only exercises control at the moment thanks to military force, assistance from foreign powers, and the inability of the rebels to agree on practically anything. Israel's government and policies are quite clearly more humane and productive than Assad's policies, as evidenced by the fact that their state hasn't fallen into shambles and killed hundreds of thousands to preserve itself.

Still, Israel isn't the best country in the world either. Not by a long shot. It may arguably be one of the better ones in the Middle East, though, for whatever (small amount) that's worth.

United Nations, Red Cross, Amnesty International. Around 1600 of them. I would consider people in a disabled center non threatening, would you?

Again, fighting a war in one of the most highly populated regions on Earth against an organization that has willfully endangered the civilians it claims to represent, only escaping the charge of using human shields through the technicality that they weren't using said civilians to stop retaliation but rather to bolster their own image, will necessarily result in casualties. There are quite a few instances when Israel has been mistaken or reckless in their strikes, but measuring the number of deaths without reference to the situation is quite illogical.

Please stop reading/viewing CNN NYT and other american media. They're bad for your brains

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

Small off-topic remark:
Did anyone notice that the Mid East which the US invade or fund insurgents in were a lot better before these war (eg: Iraq, Syria and Lybia)

[Costa Fierro]

Small off-topic remark:
Did anyone notice that the Mid East which the US invade or fund insurgents in were a lot better before these war (eg: Iraq, Syria and Lybia)

Let's see. Iraq. Run by dictator Saddam Hussein. Committed genocide against Kurds. Syria. Run by Bashar al-Assad after his father, Hafez al-Assad. Between 40-70,000 killed in an uprising in Hama. Libya. Run by Muammar Ghaddafi. Committed acts of terrorism against foreign states, routinely tortured and killed political opponents and stole $200 billion from Libyan public funds.

How are these exactly better than the situation the countries are in at the moment? The Kurds are facing another genocide. Syria is fighting once again and in the same areas that rose up over 25 years ago and Libya is still a place where criticizing the establishment can get you tortured.

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

Small off-topic remark:
Did anyone notice that the Mid East which the US invade or fund insurgents in were a lot better before these war (eg: Iraq, Syria and Lybia)

Let's see. Iraq. Run by dictator Saddam Hussein. Committed genocide against Kurds. Syria. Run by Bashar al-Assad after his father, Hafez al-Assad. Between 40-70,000 killed in an uprising in Hama. Libya. Run by Muammar Ghaddafi. Committed acts of terrorism against foreign states, routinely tortured and killed political opponents and stole $200 billion from Libyan public funds.

How are these exactly better than the situation the countries are in at the moment? The Kurds are facing another genocide. Syria is fighting once again and in the same areas that rose up over 25 years ago and Libya is still a place where criticizing the establishment can get you tortured.

Islamists are committing an ethnic cleansing of non-Sunni muslims and Christians in Syria, Iraq. These pro-West dogs ever rule these two great countries, you can say goodbye to Christians and non-Sunni muslims in the Levant, you can say goodbye to women's' rights, you can say goodbye to freedom itself. Did you know that the ISIL does not want Qatar to host the World Cup because football players have exposed thighs ? I hail the good ol' days of nationalist socialist Syria, Iraq and Lybia who stood up to Zio Globalism.

[Byzantine Balkan Federation]

The UN Human Rights Council has passed forty five resolutions condemning Israel specifically, more than any other state and by a significant margin. These condemnations comprise close to half of the aforementioned entity's resolutions. Israel has killed fewer people than Syria or Russia since 2006, and yet has been condemned far more often than either. North Korea, Iran, China, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and a multitude of other countries notorious for human rights violations have not even come close to matching Israel's number of condemnations. Do you genuinely believe that Israel is more deserving of vitriol than Syria or Russia? Are you genuinely content to ignore that alarming Antisemitism that is often found among self-proclaimed Anti-Zionists in Europe, the Americas, and the Middle East?

The Lebanese Army has killed more than 100 ISIL insurgents. I guess you can call the Leb Army "terrorist anti-Jesus anti-jew nazi".
North Korea: If you think there's gulags here you're mistaken.
Iran: I don't know what to say what did Iran do?
China: If you are referring to the Maoist atrocities and such. Don't worry the World did not ignore these.
Egypt: What regime are you referring to?
Sudan: What?
Libya: What?
Turkey: I acknowledge that Turkey's a real jerk but what atrocities are you referring to?
Saudi Arabia: You're right. Women are only allowed to drive cars with bombs, funds terrorists who are fighting Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq to make them part of the neo-caliphate.

Meanwhile, Israel was found illegally, it has displaced, killed and tortured hundreds of thousands of Palestinians regardless of their religion, it has displaced them from their homes and lands. It has committed genocide against them, it has occupied most of their lands (no wonder why there's a lot of people in Gaza) it has blockaded Gaza, it sometimes cuts electricity from Gaza, it sends planes to destroy homes (like 3000) killed around 1900 people, injured around 10 000 people, most of these killed/injured people are civilians. There's lots of children and babies and women and elderly killed/tortured. And this was ONLY the last month, imagine how much people have Israel harmed since before 1948, you obviously get A LOT more causalities than in Syria, Iraq or other Nationalist countries. And still, the UN has not payed enough attention to the Palestinian cause.

Again

[Russianon]

http://tomatobubble.com/war.html

[Republika Srpska Party]

http://tomatobubble.com/war.html

What is dat?

[Gravlen]

Frankly, that's bullshit. Utter bullshit. Settlements are at the heart of the conflict, as is the ongoing occupation.

It bothers me that some people are trying to cast this as an isolated conflict between Hamas and Israel or Gaza and Israel. It's not just dishonest, it ignores vital parts of the ongoing conflict, parts necessary to understand what's actually happening in the area.

The settlements are an issue, and I don't claim they are, but they have very little to do with Operation Protective Edge in Gaza. Gaza=/= West Bank and if you want to discuss it just speak the word and I'll switch gears. The two things aren't linked at the moment because Fatah has no jurisdiction in Gaza, and Hamas has no jusrisdiction in the West Bank.

Settlements may not be directly linked to Orptective Edge, but when you ignore them and at the same time make a statement about how "until Palestinians realize that non-violence is the only viable method to achieve their aims [...]" you demonstrate a failure to understand the larger conflict.

Gaza is a part of the ongoing conflict, and not one where you can just shut your eyes and pretend that what's going on in the West Bank also doesn't matter. I am not convinced that Protective Edge would have taken place if Hamas hadn't entered into the unity government with Fatah, which they did after (among other things) Israeli complaints that they couldn't negotiate with a split Palestinian leadership.

I'll say it again, the Palestinians on the West Bank have been relatively peaceful for the last couple of years, and cooperate with Israel on security matters. Why haven't Israel found a way to boost the economic development in the West Bank to show that such cooperation benefits both sides? Why not give some victories to Abbas and the moderates who wish to negotiate?

[Gravlen]

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, but controlling Gaza as a state. now, Israel doesnt say ""become a demilitarized puppet area of indeterminate legal status changing depending on whatever suits israeli interests the most at any given moment and we will let you have fruit juice"" as you say it. all they say is, "Quit launching rockets at us, quit abusing your own Palestinian people, put your weapons down, show us you want peace, and in exchange, Gaza will be the next Singapore".

That's all I hear Israel saying right now. Do you have a link to any Israeli official promising anything in return for demilitarization?

[Murkwood]

http://tomatobubble.com/war.html

The fuck?

[Blakk Metal]

http://tomatobubble.com/war.html

The fuck?

I know. How the Illuminati be so evil?

[Russianon]

The fuck?

I know. How the Illuminati be so evil?

Who said something about Illuminati ??

[Blakk Metal]

I know. How the Illuminati be so evil?

Who said something about Illuminati ??

The webpage was talking about the New World Order, which is what the Illuminati wants.

[Russianon]

Who said something about Illuminati ??

The webpage was talking about the New World Order, which is what the Illuminati wants.

just focus on this particular page, not the whole site

[Evraim]

Gaza Health Ministry: 1,880 killed[16] and 10,000 wounded[17] (80% civilians)[18]
PCHR: 1,976 killed (1,643 civilians)[19]

UN OCHA: 1,849 killed (1,354 civilians, 216 militants, 279 unknown)[20]

ITIC: 1,552 killed (480 civilians, 467 militants, 605 unknown)[21]

IDF: 1,768 killed[22] (900 militants)[23]

One could interpret Israel's strikes against Gaza as a massacre, but most who do so have rather loose criteria associated with that term. The power dynamics and circumstances in Gaza are not tantamount to those generally associated with massacres, regardless of casualties. In any case, the figures aren't exact. Palestinian sympathizers overestimate the number of civilians killed, putting them at eighty percent of those killed, while Israeli sympathizers minimize civilian casualties, with some sources leaving the possibility that two-thirds of those killed were militants.

Please stop reading/viewing CNN NYT and other american media. They're bad for your brains

I do not believe that heeding the counsel of someone who believes in Zio-Globalist conspiracy theory balderdash would dramatically improve my mental health or cognitive abilities. In fact, to my knowledge, you are no more qualified to provide such advice than an asylum patient who has become wholly detached from reality, with no offense intended to either you or the asylum patient in question.

[Gauthier]

Who said something about Illuminati ??

The webpage was talking about the New World Order, which is what the Illuminati wants.