Biggest US Supreme Court ruling of the year

[The American Natives]

Who said it's an infectious disease?

The one saying avoiding it is the same thing.

Yeah, you might want to learn what the burden of proof is. Because you made the original claim that they are different enough to provide one but not the other. So far you've just made childish remarks about "HERP SHITPOSTING!" and mental health. You've put no effort in presenting ANYTHING resembling a coherent argument.

What a rich retort. Ok, if its burden of proof you want now, the burden lies with the one making the comparison. In what ways are smallpox and pregnancy the same? If you're interested in coherent arguments, here's your opportunity to make one.
The only childish remarks have been your "hurr durr concession accepted xDDDDD," a classic shitpost if there ever was one.

[Ashmoria]

Cutting down risk of heart disease in HALF is of little benefit to human health?

If you want to reduce your risk of heart disease, buy the pill yourself. I decrease my risk of heart disease buy buying vitamins, and I don't believe my employers cover that.

this is why we have the preventative care mandate in obamacare. preventative medicine is the key to lowering overall medical costs. contraception is a key part of that care. why wouldn't you want lower costs?

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Cutting down risk of heart disease in HALF is of little benefit to human health?

If you want to reduce your risk of heart disease, buy the pill yourself. I decrease my risk of heart disease buy buying vitamins, and I don't believe my employers cover that.

Some people cannot "afford" to buy the pill themselves. They need health insurance for that, for it to be reasonably priced. Vitamins are pretty different from contraceptives, sweetie. And not as expensive to boot..

[Doitsu-san]

No, contraception is not a vital piece of health coverage. Contraception is covering an optional activity that has little benefit to human health.

With contraception being so pricey, employees can either choose not to have sex or buy a pack of condoms, which I recall cost about $10.

But they shouldn't have to /choose/ not to have sex. Sex is a vital part of relationships (not including asexual relationships, etc). Ten dollars can be a lot to some people, sweetie. Also, condoms aren't 100% effective and aren't always available. An IUD is always available because it's inside of a woman's body. And yes, contraception is an important part of health coverage because women need it.

Women don't need contraception, sex isn't a "need", it's an option. Condoms are always available, look at your local WalMart, and if you are too poor to afford them (cause some people obviously can't find ten dollars in a first world nation?), you can not have sex or you can put them on layaway.

[Ashmoria]

1) Using the United States Laws, prove that abortion of legalized murder, keep in mind that a fetus does not have personhood under our current laws.

---

It'll be interesting to see if Hobby Lobby's current insurer will back out of the corporation. As far as I can tell, Insurance companies would rather pay for contraceptive than for children, because surprise surprise, contraceptive are cheaper.

As someone who is anti abortion and who has taken the time to actually research what these pills do, I am amazed that a lot of Americans still think the morning after pill causes abortions. I feel that the credibility of the pro life movement suffers somewhat as a result because people won't do their homework.

obamacare is great for those who are anti-abortion. the best way to limit abortion is to limit the number of unintended pregnancies, eh?

[Mavorpen]

Cutting down risk of heart disease in HALF is of little benefit to human health?

If you want to reduce your risk of heart disease, buy the pill yourself. I decrease my risk of heart disease buy buying vitamins, and I don't believe my employers cover that.

What vitamins?

[The American Natives]

I'm not and I would question why you believe they are different things.

I would question why you made the observation that they're the same at all. Could you expand on it and convince me? While I side with the Supreme Court in this case, I am pro-contraceptive and pro-choice, so I'm not a lost cause.

[Mavorpen]

Who said it's an infectious disease?

The one saying avoiding it is the same thing.

So then he isn't saying it's an infectious disease. Got it.

What a rich retort. Ok, if its burden of proof you want now, the burden lies with the one making the comparison.

No it doesn't. That's not how the burden of proof works. The burden of proof lies on the one making the original positive claim. That would be you. Do you have an argument or not?

[Estrain (Ancient)]

But they shouldn't have to /choose/ not to have sex. Sex is a vital part of relationships (not including asexual relationships, etc). Ten dollars can be a lot to some people, sweetie. Also, condoms aren't 100% effective and aren't always available. An IUD is always available because it's inside of a woman's body. And yes, contraception is an important part of health coverage because women need it.

Women don't need contraception, sex isn't a "need", it's an option. Condoms are always available, look at your local WalMart, and if you are too poor to afford them (cause some people obviously can't find ten dollars in a first world nation?), you can not have sex or you can put them on layaway.

Some women NEED contraception as a preventative medicine. To prevent other diseases. And a lot NEED it to prevent pregnancy. And right, because poor people shouldn't be having sex. And why wouldn't we want poor people to have access to contraception? Because they can obviously afford to have children/diseases.

[Doitsu-san]

If you want to reduce your risk of heart disease, buy the pill yourself. I decrease my risk of heart disease buy buying vitamins, and I don't believe my employers cover that.

Some people cannot "afford" to buy the pill themselves. They need health insurance for that, for it to be reasonably priced. Vitamins are pretty different from contraceptives, sweetie. And not as expensive to boot..

You don't have to buy the pill, you can just not have sex, or buy condoms. I was addressing Estrain's claim that employers are obligated to buy the pill because it has preventative benefits to non-consented diseases, when in fact there are a thousand other ways to decrease the risk of heart disease.

[Mavorpen]

You don't have to buy the pill, you can just not have sex, or buy condoms.

Holy shit, I can't believe you responded "buy condoms" after literally being told there are hings that condoms CAN'T do that other forms of contraception can.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Some people cannot "afford" to buy the pill themselves. They need health insurance for that, for it to be reasonably priced. Vitamins are pretty different from contraceptives, sweetie. And not as expensive to boot..

You don't have to buy the pill, you can just not have sex, or buy condoms. I was addressing Estrain's claim that employers are obligated to buy the pill because it has preventative benefits to non-consented diseases, when in fact there are a thousand other ways to decrease the risk of heart disease.

I'll repost because you didn't see my other post, clearly.
Sex has everything to do with health coverage. That's pretty clear, whether you disagree or not, that doesn't matter really.
Other uses of contraception:
1) Lowering cancer rates
2) Lighter, less painful periods
3) Clearer skin
4) PMS relief
5) Endometriosis relief
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/ ... e-the-pill
Also, 1/3 of teens use contraception exclusively for other reasons, let alone the people who use them for both to prevent pregnancy and the aforementioned reasons:
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2011/11/15/
Employers aren't BUYING the pill, they WERE required to provide health insurance that covered contraception. Those two are very different things.

[The American Natives]

No it doesn't. That's not how the burden of proof works. The burden of proof lies on the one making the original positive claim. That would be you. Do you have an argument or not?

No, that would be him, claiming they're the same thing. Do you have a real argument, or is your goal here to post farm and not actually contribute anything besides sifting for delusional "concessions" in arguments?

[Ashmoria]

Some people cannot "afford" to buy the pill themselves. They need health insurance for that, for it to be reasonably priced. Vitamins are pretty different from contraceptives, sweetie. And not as expensive to boot..

You don't have to buy the pill, you can just not have sex, or buy condoms. I was addressing Estrain's claim that employers are obligated to buy the pill because it has preventative benefits to non-consented diseases, when in fact there are a thousand other ways to decrease the risk of heart disease.

here in the real world people have sex. lots of sex. they aren't going to stop having sex because you think they should. that approach hasn't worked in the hundreds of years that it has been suggested. it isn't going to work now.

[Doitsu-san]

Women don't need contraception, sex isn't a "need", it's an option. Condoms are always available, look at your local WalMart, and if you are too poor to afford them (cause some people obviously can't find ten dollars in a first world nation?), you can not have sex or you can put them on layaway.

Some women NEED contraception as a preventative medicine. To prevent other diseases. And a lot NEED it to prevent pregnancy. And right, because poor people shouldn't be having sex. And why wouldn't we want poor people to have access to contraception? Because they can obviously afford to have children/diseases.

You don't need it to prevent heart disease, you can buy vitamins. You don't need it to prevent pregnancy, you can just not have sex.

You can buy condoms to have sex, and please don't give me the rant about how "poor people can't afford condoms", if you can afford a fucking Happy Meal you can buy a box of condoms, fuck, even in the shithole of a town in Puerto Rico where my Grandfather lives there is a whole shop dedicated to condoms.

Sex isn't a need, sex is an optional risk. And no matter how long you rant you can never change that.

[Mavorpen]

No, that would be him, claiming they're the same thing.

He didn't do that. He asked you how they aren't he same thing AFTER you claimed that they are. He didn't claim that they are the same thing, he asked you to explain your position, which you've avoided doing for some strange reason since the beginning.

[Doitsu-san]

You don't have to buy the pill, you can just not have sex, or buy condoms. I was addressing Estrain's claim that employers are obligated to buy the pill because it has preventative benefits to non-consented diseases, when in fact there are a thousand other ways to decrease the risk of heart disease.

I'll repost because you didn't see my other post, clearly.
Sex has everything to do with health coverage. That's pretty clear, whether you disagree or not, that doesn't matter really.
Other uses of contraception:
1) Lowering cancer rates
2) Lighter, less painful periods
3) Clearer skin
4) PMS relief
5) Endometriosis relief
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/ ... e-the-pill
Also, 1/3 of teens use contraception exclusively for other reasons, let alone the people who use them for both to prevent pregnancy and the aforementioned reasons:
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2011/11/15/
Employers aren't BUYING the pill, they WERE required to provide health insurance that covered contraception. Those two are very different things.

1) Buy vitamins
2) Isn't necessary to health
3) Isn't necessary to health
4) Isn't necessary to health
5) There are other medicines for that that are already covered by your employer

Considering all the alternative "uses" for contraception are pretty much unnecessary and wouldn't be covered by an employer anyways, it just furthers the case that contraception should be bought by the employee, or government funded.

[The American Natives]

He didn't do that. He asked you how they aren't he same thing AFTER you claimed that they are. He didn't claim that they are the same thing, he asked you to explain your position, which you've avoided doing for some strange reason since the beginning.

No, he claimed they were the same in a reply to another poster, where upon I've question him on how they are the same. I've been asking why he thinks they're the same.
Do try to keep up, or actually contribute something besides inane post-farming questions.

[Saiwania]

Some women NEED contraception as a preventative medicine. To prevent other diseases. And a lot NEED it to prevent pregnancy. And right, because poor people shouldn't be having sex. And why wouldn't we want poor people to have access to contraception? Because they can obviously afford to have children/diseases.

Poor people tend to have a lot more children than economically affluent people, but I don't buy that this is because poor people everywhere don't have any access to contraceptives. I think that a lot just simply make irresponsible choices such as not at least finishing high school.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Some women NEED contraception as a preventative medicine. To prevent other diseases. And a lot NEED it to prevent pregnancy. And right, because poor people shouldn't be having sex. And why wouldn't we want poor people to have access to contraception? Because they can obviously afford to have children/diseases.

You don't need it to prevent heart disease, you can buy vitamins. You don't need it to prevent pregnancy, you can just not have sex.

You can buy condoms to have sex, and please don't give me the rant about how "poor people can't afford condoms", if you can afford a fucking Happy Meal you can buy a box of condoms, fuck, even in the shithole of a town in Puerto Rico where my Grandfather lives there is a whole shop dedicated to condoms.

Sex isn't a need, sex is an optional risk. And no matter how long you rant you can never change that.

What vitamins are these? Are the proved to prevent heart disease. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of questions about the effectivness about vitamins:
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-suppl ... tivitamins
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... to-tell-us
http://www.buzzfeed.com/kellyoakes/12-t ... g-you-more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... -good.html
So there's that.
Average cost of condoms: 12pk: 10.99
Average cost of happy meal: 2.99
That's a big difference for poor people.
Besides, we're not talking about condoms, never were meant to. This thread is about other forms of contraception. The form that before today for-profit corporations were required to cover because the Obama Administration realizes that contraception coverage is a vital part of (not just cis) women's health coverage.

[The Time Alliance]

-----Wrong topic.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

I'll repost because you didn't see my other post, clearly.
Sex has everything to do with health coverage. That's pretty clear, whether you disagree or not, that doesn't matter really.
Other uses of contraception:
1) Lowering cancer rates
2) Lighter, less painful periods
3) Clearer skin
4) PMS relief
5) Endometriosis relief
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/ ... e-the-pill
Also, 1/3 of teens use contraception exclusively for other reasons, let alone the people who use them for both to prevent pregnancy and the aforementioned reasons:
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2011/11/15/
Employers aren't BUYING the pill, they WERE required to provide health insurance that covered contraception. Those two are very different things.

1) Buy vitamins
2) Isn't necessary to health
3) Isn't necessary to health
4) Isn't necessary to health
5) There are other medicines for that that are already covered by your employer

Considering all the alternative "uses" for contraception are pretty much unnecessary and wouldn't be covered by an employer anyways, it just furthers the case that contraception should be bought by the employee, or government funded.

Preventing cancer isn't necessary to health? What world are you living in, sweetie? Employers aren't buying contraception nor are they government funded? You're not making an argument there. Contraception was covered by a comprehensive health insurance plan. A lot of women suffer from very painful periods, periods that cause them to not be able to get out of bed or do anything else productive. So, one could easily that that is required for health.

[Distruzio]

It is my position that these companies are more likely using religious freedom as a smoke screen to avoid their legal responsibilities to provide employer funded health care benefits to their employees. This is more about corporate profits than it is religious freedom.

I agree with your suspicions.

[The Time Alliance]

I know I edited.

Contraception itself isn't bad. In fact it's needed in many cases.

[Mavorpen]

No, he claimed they were the same in a reply to another poster, where upon I've question him on how they are the same.

No, he didn't. He stated that both of them are medical conditions and then asked why avoiding them aren't the same. He ALREADY implicitly answered how they're the "same" when he stated both of them are medical conditions. You then erected a straw man by attacking an argument that both of them are infectious diseases, which no one ever claimed.

So again, how are they different?