Biggest US Supreme Court ruling of the year

[The Black Forrest]

Seems there is an effort for a bill called: Protect Women’s Health From Corporate Interference Act.

http://www.murray.senate.gov/public/ind ... 03b5fec6a9

This bit of stupidity won't get passed the House of Representatives. It's simply an off-year election ploy, designed to try and take folks minds off of the economic issues.

So she was just waiting for the right moment for this to happen?

I kind of think she would have done this even if SCOTUS did their thing in an off year.

As to economic issues? You mean the constant reports of job creation?

[JesusOfNazareth]

That's just stupid. Not everyone at every company gets the same benefits. If "company A" gives a five percent discount to it's employees and "company B" gives a ten percent discount are you going to sue for an additional 5% discount? Should "company A" sue "company B" and force them to only offer their employees a 5% discount?
Like I said, your position is stupid.

Too bad that is not what she said.

I expect to be paid for my work and to get the same benefits that everyone else gets regardless of where I work.

That's EXACTLY what she said. She didn't say, "the benefits that the govt. thinks every employer ought to give".

[JesusOfNazareth]

This bit of stupidity won't get passed the House of Representatives. It's simply an off-year election ploy, designed to try and take folks minds off of the economic issues.

So she was just waiting for the right moment for this to happen?

I kind of think she would have done this even if SCOTUS did their thing in an off year.

As to economic issues? You mean the constant reports of job creation?

It was a Democratic Party contingency plan, I'd imagine, since the case was first accepted by SCOTUS.
Maybe, but it probably wouldn't be so 'loud'.
More like the under-reported long-term jobless and the expected September increase in ObamaCare insurance premiums.

[Galloism]

You DO realize that the 14th Amendment extends the Bill of Rights to non-citizen residents of the United States, right?

This touches on a separate subject, but there was a protest against illegal immigration here in Michigan within a couple of hours drive from where I live (in Vassar; I live in Ypsilanti). One of the protestors carried a sign saying "The Bill of Rights is for CITIZENS".

I wish I'd been there to walk up to that person, point at the sign, and tell them: "You're wrong; go back and read your Constitution". Non-citizens have many of the same rights citizens do, including the right to due process (which is apparently what that protester up in Vassar was wrongly trying to contest).

And that includes gun rights: When I put in a short stint as a contract IT consultant at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Michigan (BC/BSM), getting a CWL was something of a fad among the male employees (this was in 2011, when the Tea Party was a hot thing). Several of my male colleagues bought handguns, went to classes, and got their licenses — including 2-3 Indian nationals who were here on work visas. The law and the Constitution allow this; in America, guns are not just for American citizens.

So yes, corporations can own guns; they might even be able to organize militias. This is what legal personhood entails: If you're a legal person, you have the right to do anything that any other person can do.

So now I'm just waiting for corporate adoptions...

But the issue is that corporations should not be regarded as persons.

are you certain?

[The Black Forrest]

Too bad that is not what she said.

I expect to be paid for my work and to get the same benefits that everyone else gets regardless of where I work.

That's EXACTLY what she said. She didn't say, "the benefits that the govt. thinks every employer ought to give".

So you don't understand what she means by same benefits?

[JesusOfNazareth]

That's EXACTLY what she said. She didn't say, "the benefits that the govt. thinks every employer ought to give".

So you don't understand what she means by same benefits?

I'm holding her to the language that she used, not the message that she may have intended.

The point is that each Hobby Lobby employee gets the same benefits as every other Hobby Lobby employee, not the benefits that other people demand from Hobby Lobby .

[Gauthier]

3. Had this verdict been ruled the other way nothing would have stopped the government from forcing Hobby Lobby to cover aborticides.

Hobby Lobby doesn't cover aborticides. None of the contraceptives in this case are aborticides.

Thanks to the judicial insight of Samuel Alito, it doesn't have to be a proven aborticide. Hobby Lobby just has to clap hands and *believe* it's an aborticide.

[Ashmoria]

and I don't expect their support. that would be silly.

I expect to be paid for my work and to get the same benefits that everyone else gets regardless of where I work.

That's just stupid. Not everyone at every company gets the same benefits. If "company A" gives a five percent discount to it's employees and "company B" gives a ten percent discount are you going to sue for an additional 5% discount? Should "company A" sue "company B" and force them to only offer their employees a 5% discount?
Like I said, your position is stupid.

no its not.

the government has mandated certain insurance regulations. I want to be covered by those regulations like everyone else is. some new found religious principle shouldn't put ME into a different benefit status.

[Greed and Death]

That's just stupid. Not everyone at every company gets the same benefits. If "company A" gives a five percent discount to it's employees and "company B" gives a ten percent discount are you going to sue for an additional 5% discount? Should "company A" sue "company B" and force them to only offer their employees a 5% discount?
Like I said, your position is stupid.

no its not.

the government has mandated certain insurance regulations. I want to be covered by those regulations like everyone else is. some new found religious principle shouldn't put ME into a different benefit status.

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

[The Black Forrest]

no its not.

the government has mandated certain insurance regulations. I want to be covered by those regulations like everyone else is. some new found religious principle shouldn't put ME into a different benefit status.

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

Hobby Lobby is run by the Church?

[Ashmoria]

no its not.

the government has mandated certain insurance regulations. I want to be covered by those regulations like everyone else is. some new found religious principle shouldn't put ME into a different benefit status.

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

as I said before I don't care how it gets done. I don't agree with the ruling, its absurd to have some spurious religious claim trump all other religious claims, but that doesn't mean i don't DESERVE the same insurance that everyone else gets.

[Geilinor]

Too bad that is not what she said.

I expect to be paid for my work and to get the same benefits that everyone else gets regardless of where I work.

That's EXACTLY what she said. She didn't say, "the benefits that the govt. thinks every employer ought to give".

No, she said that everyone deserves to get the benefits the government has guaranteed. Just like everyone deserves to be paid at least the minimum wage.

[Geilinor]

no its not.

the government has mandated certain insurance regulations. I want to be covered by those regulations like everyone else is. some new found religious principle shouldn't put ME into a different benefit status.

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

The goal of churches and religious nonprofits is to spread a certain belief system. That is not the goal of Hobby Lobby and any other for-profit corporation. All members of a church are expected to have the same belief system.

[Greed and Death]

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

Hobby Lobby is run by the Church?

Does it need to be run by a church to be religiously affiliated ? And if it bothers you I could draft the documentation to create a church to run it in about 5 minutes.

[Greed and Death]

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

The goal of churches and religious nonprofits is to spread a certain belief system. That is not the goal of Hobby Lobby and any other for-profit corporation. All members of a church are expected to have the same belief system.

Hobby Lobby, and Hobby Lobby's owners beg to differ on that their goal.

I also fail to see how an IRS tax status limits what a corporation can do.

[Greed and Death]

those mandates had an exception for churches, and religious affiliated nonprofits. What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?

as I said before I don't care how it gets done. I don't agree with the ruling, its absurd to have some spurious religious claim trump all other religious claims, but that doesn't mean i don't DESERVE the same insurance that everyone else gets.

But everyone does not get the same insurance. People working for nonprofits often do not get same insurance from existing exceptions.

[Ashmoria]

as I said before I don't care how it gets done. I don't agree with the ruling, its absurd to have some spurious religious claim trump all other religious claims, but that doesn't mean i don't DESERVE the same insurance that everyone else gets.

But everyone does not get the same insurance. People working for nonprofits often do not get same insurance from existing exceptions.

uhhuh

did I mention that I don't agree with that?

[Donut section]

I'm not American so I'm not sure how your system works, but isn't insurance an employee entitlement, as in part of their salary, like holidays and sick leave?

If it is what does it have to do with the employer?
Also, if it is do employers who deny it required to pay the difference in a higher salary?

Yes, it's part of the overall compensation package.

Mind you, ever since the ACA was enacted, conservatives have been trying to pretend otherwise; they've insanely tried to recharacterize it as some kind of "gift" or "gratuity" that employers give their employees entirely outside of the normal compensation arrangement, but that's just bunkum. Existing law in a number of areas (most notably, tax and labor) considers non-payroll compensation (collectively referred to as "benefits") to still be compensation nonetheless — however hard today's conservatives may scream about it.

I'm guessing ACA is the legal guidelines which provide employees these benefits?

And if it's compensation for their work, I don't think employers should have the right to discriminate based upon their own private religious views.

Mainly because I don't see how someone's private religious views should be allowed to affect someone else's life.

The concept of a legal entity operating within the public theater of trade and services maintaining a religious view just seems weird to me.

But I'm not very well educated in economics and law, so I wouldn't mind it being explained a bit more for me.

Also, if it is part of employee entitlement do companies that don't pay it have to pay a higher monetary minimum wage?

[Geilinor]

Yes, it's part of the overall compensation package.

Mind you, ever since the ACA was enacted, conservatives have been trying to pretend otherwise; they've insanely tried to recharacterize it as some kind of "gift" or "gratuity" that employers give their employees entirely outside of the normal compensation arrangement, but that's just bunkum. Existing law in a number of areas (most notably, tax and labor) considers non-payroll compensation (collectively referred to as "benefits") to still be compensation nonetheless — however hard today's conservatives may scream about it.

Also, if it is part of employee entitlement do companies that don't pay it have to pay a higher monetary minimum wage?

No. I'm not sure if SCOTUS would go along with it, but that could be a way for Congress to solve the problem.

[Ashmoria]

Also, if it is part of employee entitlement do companies that don't pay it have to pay a higher monetary minimum wage?

No. I'm not sure if SCOTUS would go along with it, but that could be a way for Congress to solve the problem.

there are no shortage of ways to solve the problem only of willingness to do so.

[Greed and Death]

But everyone does not get the same insurance. People working for nonprofits often do not get same insurance from existing exceptions.

uhhuh

did I mention that I don't agree with that?

Better elect someone other than President Obama.

[Ashmoria]

uhhuh

did I mention that I don't agree with that?

Better elect someone other than President Obama.

ill get right on that

[The Black Forrest]

Hobby Lobby is run by the Church?

Does it need to be run by a church to be religiously affiliated ? And if it bothers you I could draft the documentation to create a church to run it in about 5 minutes.

Are you suggesting Hobby Lobby is religiously affiliated? "What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?"

[The Black Forrest]

The goal of churches and religious nonprofits is to spread a certain belief system. That is not the goal of Hobby Lobby and any other for-profit corporation. All members of a church are expected to have the same belief system.

Hobby Lobby, and Hobby Lobby's owners beg to differ on that their goal.

I also fail to see how an IRS tax status limits what a corporation can do.

Sorry where does their business charter say they are they to spread morality and the word of God?

[Greed and Death]

Does it need to be run by a church to be religiously affiliated ? And if it bothers you I could draft the documentation to create a church to run it in about 5 minutes.

Are you suggesting Hobby Lobby is religiously affiliated? "What harm comes from allowing religiously affiliated for profits to also take part ?"

Yes affiliated with the religion of the owners.
Articles of incorporation reflect as much.