Water Service Cut Off To Thousands In Detroit

[Shie]

I understand why communism can't work, the common argument again it is that it's not realistic.

How is free market capitalism not realistic?

It's entirely realistic. The US just didn't have to deal with part of it being on the losing side of it so far. Maybe that'll finally teach people that for all those winners the free market produces, there are also losers.

Is that okay?

Is it right that the losers of the free market lose?

[Luziyca]

It's a couple million dollars. I'm sure the US has some kind of humanitarian budget that usually goes to foreign countries. Give some of that to detroit for the time being.

Other than that, it's time for a larger scale solution, it seems. Patching up whatever currently fails no longer works. Find a way to get the city up and running again, or abandon it altogether, spreading the population among cities that still function.

About the budget, IIRC, it was 1% of the GDP of the USA.

In a perfect world, where people are nice and don't fuck each other for profit. That is not the world we live in. If we did, then we wouldn't be discussing this, because Detroit wouldn't be a forsaken shithole.

I understand why communism can't work, the common argument against it is that it's not realistic.

How is free market capitalism not realistic?

Because in the long run, only the bourgeoisie benefit, and the proletariat will suffer. If anything, you would've planted and sown the seeds for a communist revolution that your great-grandchildren will reap.

[Shilya]

It's entirely realistic. The US just didn't have to deal with part of it being on the losing side of it so far. Maybe that'll finally teach people that for all those winners the free market produces, there are also losers.

Is that okay?

What, there being losers? That's the worldwide reality. Is it okay? No, but does it matter? There aren't enough resources for everyone either way.
Some of them being in the US? I don't see why the US would be magically exempt.
That it teaches people that their country isn't invulnerable? That's great.
That it teaches people that there are losers? That's even better. Maybe that'll lead to some real understanding where their wealth comes from.

[Shrillland]

It's a couple million dollars. I'm sure the US has some kind of humanitarian budget that usually goes to foreign countries. Give some of that to detroit for the time being.

Other than that, it's time for a larger scale solution, it seems. Patching up whatever currently fails no longer works. Find a way to get the city up and running again, or abandon it altogether, spreading the population among cities that still function.

About the budget, IIRC, it was 1% of the GDP of the USA.

And when you narrow it down to non-military aid, it becomes even less. We are still the lowest among all industrialised nations in this regard.

[Wisconsin9]

In a perfect world, where people are nice and don't fuck each other for profit. That is not the world we live in. If we did, then we wouldn't be discussing this, because Detroit wouldn't be a forsaken shithole.

I understand why communism can't work, the common argument against it is that it's not realistic.

How is free market capitalism not realistic?

Oh, it's plenty realistic. I didn't say it wasn't. I said that a utopic free-market system where bosses give employees decent treatment is unrealistic. The picture you're painting is unrealistic. It's so unrealistic it makes Picasso look like a wedding photographer.

[Dakini]

You know that you can't just freely immigrate to Canada, right?

If you don't already have a job lined up, you have to have something like $10k in savings.

I can immigrate to Canada without a job lined up if I have $10K? I should try that...

You might also need to score well enough on some point system.

If you're young and in school (or recently left it) you can also apply for a working holiday visa, which requires less savings.

[Luziyca]

About the budget, IIRC, it was 1% of the GDP of the USA.

And when you narrow it down to non-military aid, it becomes even less. We are still the lowest among all industrialised nations in this regard.

Yeah. In contrast, the Dominion had 2.5% of its 2012 budget on foreign aid.

[Shie]

I understand why communism can't work, the common argument against it is that it's not realistic.

How is free market capitalism not realistic?

Oh, it's plenty realistic. I didn't say it wasn't. I said that a utopic free-market system where bosses give employees decent treatment is unrealistic. The picture you're painting is unrealistic. It's so unrealistic it makes Picasso look like a wedding photographer.

What do you think about syndicalism in that case?

[Wisconsin9]

Oh, it's plenty realistic. I didn't say it wasn't. I said that a utopic free-market system where bosses give employees decent treatment is unrealistic. The picture you're painting is unrealistic. It's so unrealistic it makes Picasso look like a wedding photographer.

What do you think about syndicalism in that case?

I don't know enough about it to say.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I can immigrate to Canada without a job lined up if I have $10K? I should try that...

You might also need to score well enough on some point system.

Yeah, I have heard of that. I know English and am at an age where it would be easy to enter the workforce, so I would get points for that. Otherwise I forget how the system works.

If you're young and in school (or recently left it) you can also apply for a working holiday visa, which requires less savings.

Nope, been out of school for a while.

I probably can immigrate to Canada if I am stubborn enough about trying to get in. I just have been too lazy to actually do so.

[The Serbian Empire]

I think this is a sign that water shall be nationalized like Venezuela did to oil. Shit, I think I must have taken the Pinochet copper mine model too good.

No. It should be nationalized and the minimum to survive plus the water used by manually washing dishes be provided for free by the state. After you exceed "x" cap, that's when you need to pay the bills.

I understand that Detroit needs funds to survive, but for the city(or their EFM) to decide that cutting off water to the point where the UN has declared a humanitarian crisis is not only counter-intuitive, it makes the city-and the country it belongs to-a global embarrassment. We are the richest country in the history of the world, yet we have decided that the poor don't deserve one of the key elements of life. If this is what we do to those who need help, then there is little hope for our future.

Exactly. If this is the way that Americans treat their fellow citizens, I sincerely hope that the USA goes the same way as the USSR by 2050, so that an entity like the EU, or a country like India, China, Japan, Russia, Canada, Brazil or Nigeria gains greater influence and actually makes the world better.

Nigeria making the world better... Ever heard of Boko Haram?

[Shie]

What do you think about syndicalism in that case?

I don't know enough about it to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

[The Serbian Empire]

I think the state budget isn't large enough to fix Detroit. The place has taken terminal injuries from population hemorrhage.

I don't expect them to rebuild Detroit into a paragon of awesomeness, just provide basic necessities to the people who still live there.

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

[Wisconsin9]

I don't know enough about it to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

I'd love to watch, but I've got a test to take and half a dozen other videos to watch beforehand. I shouldn't even be here right now.

[Shie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

I'd love to watch, but I've got a test to take and half a dozen other videos to watch beforehand. I shouldn't even be here right now.

Are you in college?

[Shilya]

I don't expect them to rebuild Detroit into a paragon of awesomeness, just provide basic necessities to the people who still live there.

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

So, there is enough, they just don't want to spend it on Detroit for political reasons.

[Dakini]

You might also need to score well enough on some point system.

Yeah, I have heard of that. I know English and am at an age where it would be easy to enter the workforce, so I would get points for that. Otherwise I forget how the system works.

If you're young and in school (or recently left it) you can also apply for a working holiday visa, which requires less savings.

Nope, been out of school for a while.

I probably can immigrate to Canada if I am stubborn enough about trying to get in. I just have been too lazy to actually do so.

Yeah, I've never really looked into how to immigrate to Canada. I know people who have done it successfully, but they usually had work or school lined up before they left and if they manage to stay long enough they apply for permanent residency (and sometimes citizenship).

If you're a US citizen, you're allowed to stay in Canada for up to 6 months without getting any special documents, you're just not allowed to work during that time. So if you want to hunt for jobs, find one, go back to the US and do all the paperwork, then go back to start working then that's always possible.

[Shrillland]

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

So, there is enough, they just don't want to spend it on Detroit for political reasons.

Actually there isn't enough even then. Michigan is the only state whose population went down in the 2010 census.

[Shie]

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

So, there is enough, they just don't want to spend it on Detroit for political reasons.

This wouldn't be a problem if the people who paved the roads managed themselves.

[Nazi Flower Power]

And when you narrow it down to non-military aid, it becomes even less. We are still the lowest among all industrialised nations in this regard.

Yeah. In contrast, the Dominion had 2.5% of its 2012 budget on foreign aid.

The amount the US spends is still enough that it could provide water to Detroit residents if it was diverted to that purpose.

That said, I think this can be addressed without cutting foreign aid.

[Wisconsin9]

I'd love to watch, but I've got a test to take and half a dozen other videos to watch beforehand. I shouldn't even be here right now.

Are you in college?

Sort of. It's an eight-week nursing assistant course offered by the local technical college. I don't even graduate from high school until the end of the coming school year.

[Dracoria]

Seems to me that as opposed to flattening the whole city, it'd make more sense to revitalize the center, begin moving people from the outer sections block by block, and demolishing the emptied husks left behind. Less underutilized infrastructure to support in the long run. There is no way to attract a large enough population to support the present city without some kind of miracle.

[The Serbian Empire]

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

So, there is enough, they just don't want to spend it on Detroit for political reasons.

Trust me, it's bound to alienate a fair chunk of the population to keep that propping up a city that has rendered itself both too violent and uncompetitive to compete with other municipalities in the state. It's a time bomb that started ticking when Coleman Young became mayor for 18 consecutive years. Young believed in punishing the white business owners (due to his black power style of politics) with excessive taxes in a time when Detroit already had higher taxes than the suburbs.

[Shrillland]

Seems to me that as opposed to flattening the whole city, it'd make more sense to revitalize the center, begin moving people from the outer sections block by block, and demolishing the emptied husks left behind. Less underutilized infrastructure to support in the long run. There is no way to attract a large enough population to support the present city without some kind of miracle.

That's what the city has actually been trying to do in a sense.

[Nazi Flower Power]

There ain't even enough for that given the fact the state has to raise taxes just to repair the roads. Propping up Detroit alienates voters elsewhere in the state.

So, there is enough, they just don't want to spend it on Detroit for political reasons.

That's my understanding, yes. Racism probably comes into it. I wasn't the least bit surprised when I clicked the link to the article in the OP and saw that it was a black woman they were talking about. It is fucked up.