Pope says communists are closet Christians

[Margno]

Oh Pope Francis, what will you do next?
He's totally right, I couldn't agree with him more . Also, OP, he's not a communist. He's probably a distributionist more so than anything else.

He's Socialist.

Has he explicitly said that? Wow, I'm surprised.

[MERIZoC]

Well, there's the whole "Opiate of the masses" thing, and religion encourages spending time and resources devoting some mystical figure, rather than spending it with actual people, so I can see why the notion of religion would contradict some leftist philosophies, even though some of the specific teachings may not.

How does it contradict any leftist philosophies, exactly?

You're setting one figure as superior to all others.

[Planeia]

So, capitalists are open homosexuals? I didn't know this about myself.

What? This makes no sense...

I didn't know this about myself.

The joke was that the pope made an ASS out of U and ME. Also, it was an if/then: if communists are closet christians, then captialists are open homosexuals, opposites.

[Dundee Derry]

I think you should all go listen to one of Charlie Chaplin's speeches he gave in one of his movies.

His bible quote proves Christians are national socialists.

err. might want to review your use of the phase 'national' socialists there. The entire film/speech was anti National Socialism. Or did I seriously misinterpret the film?

Edit : Though I think I agree with what I think you are trying to say: Chaplin was basically a Socialist (though he didn't like using the term), and quoted the gospel of Luke in the passage at the end of the Great Dictator. Can't recall Chaplin's religion off hand. *googles*

[Giovenith]

What? This makes no sense...

I didn't know this about myself.

The joke was that the pope made an ASS out of U and ME. Also, it was an if/then: if communists are closet christians, then captialists are open homosexuals, opposites.

There are plenty of open gays who are also Christians.

[4years]

Well, Christianity did start out as a movement of the oppressed classes with quite a number of primitive communistic tenants (Kautsky's Foundations of Christianity is a very good examination of the subject) and Christian movements, particularly during the reformation have embraced communistic ideas (see Communism in Central Europe in the Time of the Reformation, also by Kautsky).

However Christianity, as a whole, shed its communistic traits long ago and to say that communism and Christianity are identical is absurd. There are so shared social values, such as an attitude to the poor, but there is much more to both movements than the handful of social values that overlap and Christianity has never been consistent on those points. Furthermore communism is older than Christianity, so if anything Christians borrowed communistic ideas (which it almost certainly did, with influence from the Jewish Essenes).

[Ashmoria]

(Reuters) - Pope Francis, whose criticisms of unbridled capitalism have prompted some to label him a Marxist, said in an interview published on Sunday that communists had stolen the flag of Christianity.

The 77-year-old pontiff gave an interview to Il Messaggero, Rome's local newspaper, to mark the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, a Roman holiday.

He was asked about a blog post in the Economist magazine that said he sounded like a Leninist when he criticised capitalism and called for radical economic reform.

"I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the centre of the Gospel," he said, citing Biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy.

"Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian'," he said, laughing.

Since his election in March 2013, Francis has often attacked the global economic system as being insensitive to the poor and not doing enough to share wealth with those who need it most.

Earlier this month, he criticised the wealth made from financial speculation as intolerable and said speculation on commodities was a scandal that compromised the poor's access to food.

yeah. thats tright. so do you think the communists have stolen the christian flag? is the pope a communist? i dont think the communists have stole cthe cirstian flag because karl marsx wasn an atheist. but i think rancis is a communist sympathizer (he's from argentina. that's in south america).

what do you think about this article? on reuters

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/2 ... KC20140629

no I think Christians gave up the "poor flag" a long time ago.

and I also think that communists don't have a great track record with the poor either.

[Neo Rome Republic]

yeah. thats tright. so do you think the communists have stolen the christian flag? is the pope a communist? i dont think the communists have stole cthe cirstian flag because karl marsx wasn an atheist. but i think rancis is a communist sympathizer (he's from argentina. that's in south america).

what do you think about this article? on reuters

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/2 ... KC20140629

Moy Bog... please learn English.

On topic, it's always made me curious as to how a lot of Far-Leftists are against religion. Most religions encourage fair treatment, equality, charity, and what not. And yet, most Communists and Socialists are typically Atheists and Anti-Theists.

Well Religion is usually rooted in Traditionalism and existing Social Hierarchies, which tends to make many see it as a "Reactionary" institution. Hence the hostility of Leftists towards it, along with Marxist thought being Dialectically Materialistic and thereby Atheistic, along with the whole "Opium of the People" rhetoric.

[Sklavinia]

Wrong. Christians don't believe in a stateless society or the abolishing of currency.

Whoops. Your sarcasm detector broke.

No, you're sarcasm creator is broken.

Wrong. Christians don't believe in a stateless society or the abolishing of currency.

Early ones as much as did. They refused to swear loyalty to Caesar, saying that only Jesus is lord, held all their possessions in common, and gave everything they didn't need to the poor.

That was more rebellion against 'The Man' and his faux gods. Plus, none of that seems like an opposition to a stateless society. Christians believing in establishing the Kingdom of God on Earth. That doesn't sound stateless to me.

On topic, it's always made me curious as to how a lot of Far-Leftists are against religion. Most religions encourage fair treatment, equality, charity, and what not. And yet, most Communists and Socialists are typically Atheists and Anti-Theists.

The reasons why leftists are against religion are multiple. But I will list the most common ones in order of importance:
1. Leftist movements tend to emerge from societies that were either feudal (Russia), colonial (French Indochina) or simply right wing or just conserve (Pre-Civil War Spain). And in such societies religion tends to be something that's organized by the state or parallel to the state and an active source of oppression. Thus dismantling the organized religion of the system is very much an important part of dismantling the system.

2. Religion is opium for the people. In essence what this is referring to is the fact that religion is a tool used by the clergy to brainwash people into doing their biding. Some times it is for a good cause, some times for a bad one. But regardless of the cause it represents a parallel power structure and set of values that a revolutionary system which wishes to impose its views on the world can not allow.

3. Religion is ascientific and conservative. It relies on belief rather than proof and tradition rather than innovation. Both of these things are in conflict with communism as it relies on intellectual thought and the destruction of traditional values to replace them with new communist ones.

So really the points of contact are fewer than the points of divergence.

1. Makes sense.

2. 'Brainwashing'? Really? It's not 'brainwashing'. You can opt out if you want.

3. It is neither ascientific nor conservative. And whats wrong with believing without proof? And just because it believes in tradition doesn't mean it doesn't believe in innovation. Pretty sure there are religious scientists and irreligious traditionalists.

[The Serbian Empire]

So, capitalists are open homosexuals? I didn't know this about myself.

Jeez, and you wonder why Communists and Capitalists don't get along. Or why Stalin banned homosexuality.

[Planeia]

The joke was that the pope made an ASS out of U and ME. Also, it was an if/then: if communists are closet christians, then captialists are open homosexuals, opposites.

There are plenty of open gays who are also Christians.

They're technically not due to the Leviticus 18:22 clause, but if they want to retcon the criteria for their fictional heaven and hell, they could be my guest.

[Antarticaria]

Well to be honest theirs a heavy influence of Catholicism in Russia be it their take on it however it still is Christian.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fwayNilvk6I/UhKSNPKKgOI/AAAAAAAAARA/kFWNDTc5ECI/s1600/St-Basils-Cathedral-Red-Square-Moscow-Architecture-Dome-1050x1680.jpg
or did we think this was a candy land monument?

[River Ridge at Clinton]

Jesus was a socialist

[Planeia]

So, capitalists are open homosexuals? I didn't know this about myself.

Jeez, and you wonder why Communists and Capitalists don't get along. Or why Stalin banned homosexuality.

Who said I wondered? Communists and capitalists don't get along because they're literally exact opposites. Stalin banned homosexuality because he was a closet Christian (or homosexual in denial). XD

[Geilinor]

yeah. thats tright. so do you think the communists have stolen the christian flag? is the pope a communist? i dont think the communists have stole cthe cirstian flag because karl marsx wasn an atheist. but i think rancis is a communist sympathizer (he's from argentina. that's in south america).

what do you think about this article? on reuters

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/2 ... KC20140629

Moy Bog... please learn English.

On topic, it's always made me curious as to how a lot of Far-Leftists are against religion. Most religions encourage fair treatment, equality, charity, and what not. And yet, most Communists and Socialists are typically Atheists and Anti-Theists.

I think that is because many communists believe that organized religions are using the state to enforce their beliefs.

[Dundee Derry]

Well to be honest theirs a heavy influence of Catholicism in Russia be it their take on it however it still is Christian.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fwayNilvk6I/UhKSNPKKgOI/AAAAAAAAARA/kFWNDTc5ECI/s1600/St-Basils-Cathedral-Red-Square-Moscow-Architecture-Dome-1050x1680.jpg
or did we think this was a candy land monument?

St. Basil's (the picture you just gave) is an Eastern Othodox Cathedral. Not the Kremlin. And not Roman Catholic). What was your point?

*edit: former cathedral

[Korouse]

I think you should all go listen to one of Charlie Chaplin's speeches he gave in one of his movies.

His bible quote proves Christians are national socialists.

err. might want to review your use of the phase 'national' socialists there. The entire film/speech was anti National Socialism. Or did I seriously misinterpret the film?

Edit : Though I think I agree with what I think you are trying to say: Chaplin was basically a Socialist (though he didn't like using the term), and quoted the gospel of Luke in the passage at the end of the Great Dictator. Can't recall Chaplin's religion off hand. *googles*

It was mostly a joke.

Charlie Chaplin, if I'm not mistaken, was one of those people that kinda liked the idea of Fascism before Hitler decided to be a dick and declare war on everybody and all that.

[United Marxist Nations]

Let me check.

No, I don't see it.

[Geilinor]

There are plenty of open gays who are also Christians.

They're technically not due to the Leviticus 18:22 clause, but if they want to retcon the criteria for their fictional heaven and hell, they could be my guest.

Of course they are. Many of the laws in Leviticus were targeted towards Jews specifically, and sinning doesn't make you non-Christian.

[United Marxist Nations]

Moy Bog... please learn English.

On topic, it's always made me curious as to how a lot of Far-Leftists are against religion. Most religions encourage fair treatment, equality, charity, and what not. And yet, most Communists and Socialists are typically Atheists and Anti-Theists.

I think that is because many communists believe that organized religions are using the state to enforce their beliefs.

Probably not the main reason; it's more that organized religion tends to direct away from revolutionary action against the state, and also has the affect of possibly minimizing class consciousness.

[The Serbian Empire]

Jeez, and you wonder why Communists and Capitalists don't get along. Or why Stalin banned homosexuality.

Who said I wondered? Communists and capitalists don't get along because they're literally exact opposites. Stalin banned homosexuality because he was a closet Christian (or homosexual in denial). XD

Given the Pope's logic... Stalin did it because he believes in Christianity as a Communist.

[Angleter]

He's saying, in jest, that his previous comments on the poor that some denounced as 'Communist' were simply reiterating 2000 year old Christian teaching, and that the Communists came to the same rhetoric in defence of the poor much later. So no, Francis is not a Communist, nor is he a "Communist sympathiser" (whatever that is).

[Sklavinia]

How does it contradict any leftist philosophies, exactly?

You're setting one figure as superior to all others.

Yes, but God isn't human, nor does he exist on the same dimensional plane has humanity, so, how would it contradict? Communism believes in treating everybody equally, and by that, it means humans. God isn't human and doesn't have humanity's flaws.

What? This makes no sense...

I didn't know this about myself.

The joke was that the pope made an ASS out of U and ME. Also, it was an if/then: if communists are closet christians, then captialists are open homosexuals, opposites.

Christians and Homosexuals aren't opposites.

The joke was that the pope made an ASS out of U and ME. Also, it was an if/then: if communists are closet christians, then captialists are open homosexuals, opposites.

There are plenty of open gays who are also Christians.

^This. My girlfriend is a bisexual Catholic.

There are plenty of open gays who are also Christians.

They're technically not due to the Leviticus 18:22 clause, but if they want to retcon the criteria for their fictional heaven and hell, they could be my guest.

They're Christian if they believe in the teachings of Christ, Homosexual or not.

Well to be honest theirs a heavy influence of Catholicism in Russia be it their take on it however it still is Christian.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fwayNilvk6I/UhKSNPKKgOI/AAAAAAAAARA/kFWNDTc5ECI/s1600/St-Basils-Cathedral-Red-Square-Moscow-Architecture-Dome-1050x1680.jpg
or did we think this was a candy land monument?

wat

Russia is primarily and historically Orthodox, Russia is not Communist, there is no "heavy influence" of Catholicism, St. Basil's Cathedral is an Orthodox monument, and none of this makes any sense.

[Purpelia]

2. 'Brainwashing'? Really? It's not 'brainwashing'. You can opt out if you want.

Can you really? Think about it. Imagine your self in an early 20th century society where religion is a far greater part of everyday life than it is for us today. Everyone goes to church. If you don't, you are a pariah. And everyone does what the church tells them. If you don't, you are a pariah. You can see how that gets annoying for someone who is already convinced the system is oppressing people.

And whats wrong with believing without proof?

Yea we are pretty much done here. If you have to ask this than you can not ever understand the point. As you pretty much just admitted to being against the fundamental principals of the scientific method.

[Great Empire of Gamilus]

As a Communist I can safely say I am spiritual but not christian.