Labour cosset squaddies

[The UK in Exile]

They're aware. hence the phrasing "specific criminal offence to assault a member of the Armed Forces" as opposed to the crime of assault generally. Such an offence would then typically have separate sentencing guidelines from the General charge of assault. Much as assaulting a policy officer or a paramedic carrying out their duties might in some juristdictions.

I don't get this, I mean It makes sense that assaulting an on duty police officer holds a higher punishment, but I don't really think someone assaulting an off duty soldier should hold a higher punishment than someone assaulting any other person. This really seems like unneeded pandering to the ultra-nationalist far right, which is strange, considering that voting minority barely exists in this country outside of the rapidly depleting BNP. And anyway, such people would never vote for Labour.

again, without having dug into it, I imagine part of the crime would be that the defendant was aware at the time that the individual was a soldier and/or; such knowledge was part of the motivation for the attack,

[Dejanic]

That would make sense, but that's basically the most optimistic way you could interpret the statement. I hope you're right, because I wouldn't want people getting into random bar fights over nothing, and one bloke going down for a couple of months for "discrimination" because the other person happened to be an off duty soldier.

I still think it's an odd move, even with your more optimistic interpretation. I mean if we make "discrimination", including vocal discrimination, a crime when it is directed at soldiers, wouldn't that put off a lot of anti-interventionist Muslim voters who typically vote for Labour, and aren't exactly fans of the military.

[Greater-London]

This really seems like unneeded pandering to the ultra-nationalist far right, which is strange, considering that voting minority barely exists in this country outside of the rapidly depleting BNP. And anyway, such people would never vote for Labour.

Oh contrare! these people probably voted Labour before they voted for the BNP. A BNP member in my area handed out flyers in the European election in 2009 with the sloagn "The Labour party your grandparents voted for" - Admitedly bullshit but quite a good piece of electioneering.

[Dejanic]

This really seems like unneeded pandering to the ultra-nationalist far right, which is strange, considering that voting minority barely exists in this country outside of the rapidly depleting BNP. And anyway, such people would never vote for Labour.

Oh contrare! these people probably voted Labour before they voted for the BNP. A BNP member in my area handed out flyers in the European election in 2009 with the sloagn "The Labour party your grandparents voted for" - Admitedly bullshit but quite a good piece of electioneering.

I'd probably argue that these people voted Labour because they were raised too, more than that they actually agreed with the Labour platform at any point, I mean sure it's a nice way to try and appeal to disenfranchised Labour voters, but the BNP don't exactly want to abolish Capitalism through democratic means like the old Labour party wanted to at certain points in history.

There is a few odd "left fascists" in the Bnp though, "oh I want welfare, but only for BRITISH WORKERS", "oh I want the means of production nationalised, to help bring equality among WHITE ANGLO SAXON WORKERS", but I find that most of the Bnp voters are odd syncretic corporatists.

[4years]

This is the second time this week I've had to burst out singing- damn you Labour, my voice is getting worn out.

"The people's flag is palest pink
It's not the colour you might think
White collar workers stand and cheer
The Labour government is here
We'll change the country bit by bit
So nobody will notice it
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year

The cloth cap and the wollen scarf
Are images outdated
For we're the party's avant garde
And we are educated
So raise the rolled umbrella high
The college scarf, the old school tie
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year

New Labour's flag is palest pink
It's not as red as you might think
And Tony's added shades of blue
He does not care for me and you
The people's flag is palest pink
Best drop it now before we stink
I rather like the Tory Blue
And Cam'ron's policies - I'll have them too

Now ditch we all that old red flower
Anything to cling to power
The working class can kiss my ass
It's gold I worship, first and last."

Seriously, its like Labour is trying to lose as much support as possible.

[The UK in Exile]

That would make sense, but that's basically the most optimistic way you could interpret the statement. I hope you're right, because I wouldn't want people getting into random bar fights over nothing, and one bloke going down for a couple of months for "discrimination" because the other person happened to be an off duty soldier.

I still think it's an odd move, even with your more optimistic interpretation. I mean if we make "discrimination", including vocal discrimination, a crime when it is directed at soldiers, wouldn't that put off a lot of anti-interventionist Muslim voters who typically vote for Labour, and aren't exactly fans of the military.

http://www.labour.org.uk/dignity-and-bravery

The Bill would propose changing the Criminal Justice Act 2003 so that a physical or verbal assault upon a member of the Armed Forces or their family would be classed as an aggravated crime where the prosecution can establish that service in the Armed Forces was the motive for the assault.

[Dejanic]

That would make sense, but that's basically the most optimistic way you could interpret the statement. I hope you're right, because I wouldn't want people getting into random bar fights over nothing, and one bloke going down for a couple of months for "discrimination" because the other person happened to be an off duty soldier.

I still think it's an odd move, even with your more optimistic interpretation. I mean if we make "discrimination", including vocal discrimination, a crime when it is directed at soldiers, wouldn't that put off a lot of anti-interventionist Muslim voters who typically vote for Labour, and aren't exactly fans of the military.

http://www.labour.org.uk/dignity-and-bravery

The Bill would propose changing the Criminal Justice Act 2003 so that a physical or verbal assault upon a member of the Armed Forces or their family would be classed as an aggravated crime where the prosecution can establish that service in the Armed Forces was the motive for the assault.

Fair enough, this caught my eye though.


It will also propose changing the Equality Act 2010 to so that a member of former member of the armed forces would be protected from discrimination in the provision of goods and services – for example in shops, restaurants, hotels and pubs - simply because of their service to our country.


So what If I'm a Pakistani immigrant who runs a corner shop, and a drunken Vet comes into my shop and goes "you fucking Paki, I want a pack of Marlboro Lights" would I allowed to not serve them?

This line in particularly confused the fudge out of me " simply because of their service to our country", is that saying "you can't discriminate against them, simply because of their service to our country (as a justification)", or is it saying "simply because of their service to our country, you can't not serve them".

[The UK in Exile]

http://www.labour.org.uk/dignity-and-bravery

Fair enough, this caught my eye though.


It will also propose changing the Equality Act 2010 to so that a member of former member of the armed forces would be protected from discrimination in the provision of goods and services – for example in shops, restaurants, hotels and pubs - simply because of their service to our country.


So what If I'm a Pakistani immigrant who runs a corner shop, and a drunken Vet comes into my shop and goes "you fucking Paki, I want a pack of Marlboro Lights" would I allowed to not serve them?

This line in particularly confused the fudge out of me " simply because of their service to our country", is that saying "you can't discriminate against them, simply because of their service to our country (as a justification)", or is it saying "simply because of their service to our country, you can't not serve them".

Yes, on the grounds of their conduct.

the first one.

[Dejanic]

Okay, then I have no massive objection to this really, I just see it as unnecessary, but oh well, that's Miliband and co for you.

[The UK in Exile]

Okay, then I have no massive objection to this really, I just see it as unnecessary, but oh well, that's Miliband and co for you.

yes, but you probably aren't cutting around Aldershot in your pressed Army greens, which I'd suggest was the target demographic of the policy. Not every policy needs to designed with the explicit intent of triggering a massive and inexorable landslide for Labour.

[Greater-London]

I'd probably argue that these people voted Labour because they were raised too, more than that they actually agreed with the Labour platform at any point, I mean sure it's a nice way to try and appeal to disenfranchised Labour voters, but the BNP don't exactly want to abolish Capitalism through democratic means like the old Labour party wanted to at certain points in history.

There is a few odd "left fascists" in the Bnp though, "oh I want welfare, but only for BRITISH WORKERS", "oh I want the means of production nationalised, to help bring equality among WHITE ANGLO SAXON WORKERS", but I find that most of the Bnp voters are odd syncretic corporatists.

I think BNP voters are probably more inclined to vote Labour out of any of our three big political parties. The BNP is after all anti big business, free trade and privatization wants to re-nationalize our main industries and raise income tax. It's undoubtedly a workers party and the grass roots members of the movement are mainly working class.

[Breadknife]

When did the U.S.'s Republican Party infiltrate Britain's Labour Party?

Both are 'red' parties. (Which I find quite amusing.)

[Dejanic]

I'd probably argue that these people voted Labour because they were raised too, more than that they actually agreed with the Labour platform at any point, I mean sure it's a nice way to try and appeal to disenfranchised Labour voters, but the BNP don't exactly want to abolish Capitalism through democratic means like the old Labour party wanted to at certain points in history.

There is a few odd "left fascists" in the Bnp though, "oh I want welfare, but only for BRITISH WORKERS", "oh I want the means of production nationalised, to help bring equality among WHITE ANGLO SAXON WORKERS", but I find that most of the Bnp voters are odd syncretic corporatists.

I think BNP voters are probably more inclined to vote Labour out of any of our three big political parties. The BNP is after all anti big business, free trade and privatization wants to re-nationalize our main industries and raise income tax. It's undoubtedly a workers party and the grass roots members of the movement are mainly working class.

Economically the BNP are more similar to Labour, than say the Tories or the Lib Dems, I won't deny that. But I wouldn't compare Labour and the Bnps economic policies that lightly, Labour aren't exactly opponents of free trade and globalisation, where as the Bnp basically want a transition into a foreign less import market "to encourage British industry and full employment", excluding a few shills in Blue Labour, I wouldn't call Labour protectionist, and I wouldn't really call the Bnp's protectionism Left Wing, it's just nationalism. Though the re-nationalisation of key industries is obviously quite Left leaning.

I do see strong similarities between Blue Labour and the Bnp, though Blue Labour is more of a moderate outreach to left-leaning Bnp voters, rather than ethnic supremacy.

[Greater-London]

Economically the BNP are more similar to Labour, than say the Tories or the Lib Dems, I won't deny that. But I wouldn't compare Labour and the Bnps economic policies that lightly, Labour aren't exactly opponents of free trade and globalisation, where as the Bnp basically want a transition into a foreign less import market "to encourage British industry and full employment", excluding a few shills in Blue Labour, I wouldn't call Labour protectionist, and I wouldn't really call the Bnp's protectionism Left Wing, it's just nationalism. Though the re-nationalisation of key industries is obviously quite Left leaning.

I do see strong similarities between Blue Labour and the Bnp, though Blue Labour is more of a moderate outreach to left-leaning Bnp voters, rather than ethnic supremacy.

Oh no I concur I wouldn't call them a similar platofrm I would just say it would probably appeal to a BNP voter base more than the other two. Blue Labours an interesting one I think strangely enough if the leadership where to take a Blue Labour platform that might actually win Ed Milliband the election. It appears to me at least that the UK isn't as economicly right wing as it might appear and is certainly less cosmopolitan.

[The Scientific States]

Urgh, why must Milliband turn labour into a left-wing populist party?

[Dejanic]

Urgh, why must Milliband turn labour into a left-wing populist party?

wat? How is this Left wing populism? It's right wing populism, aimed at Social Conservative types and pro militarists, and ex Labour turned Bnp types who praise the Troops. The military isn't exactly favoured by the Left.

[The Re-Frisivisiaing]

It's illegal to assault a person. Why make a separate offence - are they not people?

This sort of thing is to be expected from Labour. Strong, powerful state, regulations upon regulations upon regulations, soldier worship, mandatory state ID cards, unjust wars going against the will of the population. If one were to call them Fascists, one wouldn't be far off.

Any other definitely non-masturbatory rants on how le evil statists r facis pigs?

[Dejanic]

Economically the BNP are more similar to Labour, than say the Tories or the Lib Dems, I won't deny that. But I wouldn't compare Labour and the Bnps economic policies that lightly, Labour aren't exactly opponents of free trade and globalisation, where as the Bnp basically want a transition into a foreign less import market "to encourage British industry and full employment", excluding a few shills in Blue Labour, I wouldn't call Labour protectionist, and I wouldn't really call the Bnp's protectionism Left Wing, it's just nationalism. Though the re-nationalisation of key industries is obviously quite Left leaning.

I do see strong similarities between Blue Labour and the Bnp, though Blue Labour is more of a moderate outreach to left-leaning Bnp voters, rather than ethnic supremacy.

Oh no I concur I wouldn't call them a similar platofrm I would just say it would probably appeal to a BNP voter base more than the other two. Blue Labours an interesting one I think strangely enough if the leadership where to take a Blue Labour platform that might actually win Ed Milliband the election. It appears to me at least that the UK isn't as economicly right wing as it might appear and is certainly less cosmopolitan.

Yeah, that's possibly true, and I do (sadly) think that a Blue Labour style campaign could probably win the upcoming election, and considering that old Chuka is penned to be the next Labour leader, and he's also a member of the Blue Labour grouping, it's definetly a possibility that the party will start to stear that way (which is interesting, since Blair's new Labour, with its economic Centrism and Social Leftism, combined with global interventionism, is the polar opposite of Blue Labour). But if the UK is more economically left wing that many think, then why are Ukip rising so quickly, considering their unabashed and unapologetic support of free-market Capitalism? I'd say that people are basically just ignorant of their economic policies, in all fairness.

[Dejanic]

It's illegal to assault a person. Why make a separate offence - are they not people?

This sort of thing is to be expected from Labour. Strong, powerful state, regulations upon regulations upon regulations, soldier worship, mandatory state ID cards, unjust wars going against the will of the population. If one were to call them Fascists, one wouldn't be far off.

Any other definitely non-masturbatory rants on how le evil statists r facis pigs?

I'm not sure what you're on about, I'd probably vote Labour compared to the other two "main parties", but they had a really odd authoritarian streak when they were last in office, their support for a large overbearing police force, an incredibly unpopular state ID card system (that literally 95 percent of the nation opposed), and their really odd neo-conservative foreign policy, was probably more akin to the American Republican party, than any left wing party. Luckily, I hope and think that the party has learned from these mistakes,

[4years]

Not every policy needs to designed with the explicit intent of triggering a massive and inexorable landslide for Labour.

It's the policies seemingly designed to trigger the massive and inexorable defeat of Labour that object to.

The little clique of pinkists sitting at the of the Labour Party don't seem to realize that the British people are far to the left of any major party and that their wish-washing and concessions to the right will achieve nothing but electoral defeat. Miliband in particular seems determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Geilinor]

Oh no I concur I wouldn't call them a similar platofrm I would just say it would probably appeal to a BNP voter base more than the other two. Blue Labours an interesting one I think strangely enough if the leadership where to take a Blue Labour platform that might actually win Ed Milliband the election. It appears to me at least that the UK isn't as economicly right wing as it might appear and is certainly less cosmopolitan.

Yeah, that's possibly true, and I do (sadly) think that a Blue Labour style campaign could probably win the upcoming election, and considering that old Chuka is penned to be the next Labour leader, and he's also a member of the Blue Labour grouping, it's definetly a possibility that the party will start to stear that way (which is interesting, since Blair's new Labour, with its economic Centrism and Social Leftism, combined with global interventionism, is the polar opposite of Blue Labour). But if the UK is more economically left wing that many think, then why are Ukip rising so quickly, considering their unabashed and unapologetic support of free-market Capitalism? I'd say that people are basically just ignorant of their economic policies, in all fairness.

I don't live in the UK, but if I did, I'd ditch Labour the second Blue Labour was close to winning. British politics is just as screwy and crazy as American politics.

[Parti Ouvrier]

Agreed. Having trouble voting for Labour at this point.

^This^
If service personal get attacked, there is already a law for assault, if they heckle and criticise, this is called freedom of expression/speech. Of course, it would be more constructive to argue with squaddies on why one finds war/imperialism disagreeable.

[Geilinor]

I'd probably argue that these people voted Labour because they were raised too, more than that they actually agreed with the Labour platform at any point, I mean sure it's a nice way to try and appeal to disenfranchised Labour voters, but the BNP don't exactly want to abolish Capitalism through democratic means like the old Labour party wanted to at certain points in history.

There is a few odd "left fascists" in the Bnp though, "oh I want welfare, but only for BRITISH WORKERS", "oh I want the means of production nationalised, to help bring equality among WHITE ANGLO SAXON WORKERS", but I find that most of the Bnp voters are odd syncretic corporatists.

I think BNP voters are probably more inclined to vote Labour out of any of our three big political parties. The BNP is after all anti big business, free trade and privatization wants to re-nationalize our main industries and raise income tax. It's undoubtedly a workers party and the grass roots members of the movement are mainly working class.

Oh fuck, why did you remind me?

[United States of The One Percent]

I thought you said "Labor corset squaddies..."

[Geilinor]

When did the U.S.'s Republican Party infiltrate Britain's Labour Party?

2003. It's been a while.