Labour cosset squaddies

[Wild Turkeys]

http://www.labour.org.uk/celebrating-armed-forces-day

Armed Forces Day gives us the chance to recognise the contribution our servicemen and women make to our country. Today, we pay tribute to Britain's Armed \ Forces: those who serve today, those who have served in the past and their family and friends.

This year's Armed Forces Day will be the last one before our troops end their combat mission in Afghanistan. We should never forget those who made the ultimate sacrifice helping the people of Afghanistan and protecting the people of Britain.

We owe it to them not to let the heroism and bravery of our Armed Forces be forgotten once Afghanistan has dropped from the headlines. As I said when I visited Camp Bastion recently, the Labour Party is committed to recognising the unique place of the Armed Forces in our society.

It's shocking to think that there are still many members of our Armed Forces who face discrimination as they go about their daily lives. Our brave servicemen and women deserve to be treated with respect. It’s sad to think that those who fight for our country might need the protection of our laws, but some do.

That is why a Labour government will make it a specific criminal offence to assault a member of the Armed Forces and outlaw discrimination against service personnel and veterans.

Men and women in the Army, Navy and RAF serve us with dignity and bravery. It is our duty to ensure they are treated with dignity in return.

This is ridiculous. Anyone who has had the pleasure of a night out in an army town will know that its the public that need protection from the violent, drunken idiots the army tend to favour. Labour really have no self respect if they're into this kind of populist crap to win back the white working class. I'd rather not become even more of an Americanised society complete with vacuous 'thank you for your service' soldier worship.

What are your opinions?

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Agreed. Having trouble voting for Labour at this point.

[Valaran]

Actually I think our armed should get some respect, even if not total adoration.
But this point feels moot, to be honest. I was under the impression that it already is illegal to assault anyone (including army members), except in some pretty extreme cases. And I've never actually heard of our soldiers being discriminated against.
So this does feel to be a somewhat populist vote-grab by Labour.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Actually I think our armed should get some respect

Why do they specifically deserve it?

[Valaran]

Actually I think our armed should get some respect

Why do they specifically deserve it?

Well I think more than just them should get some respect (my point wasn't meant to just be specific to the armed forces). But I feel that it does take some courage to serve for your country, and that they do actually serve the UK so that in return they deserve some respect for this. Of course, some members may abuse this, but that is not the army as a whole.

[Wild Turkeys]

Actually I think our armed should get some respect

Why do they specifically deserve it?

Because Our Lads (tm) are out there risking their lives not because its the only job you can get with the lowest qualifications going but because they love all of us unconditionally and fucking up some dirt poor farmer in the middle east keeps us safe.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Well I think more than just them should get some respect (my point wasn't meant to just be specific to the armed forces). But I feel that it does take some courage to serve for your country, and that they do actually serve the UK so that in return they deserve some respect for this. Of course, some members may abuse this, but that is not the army as a whole.

The last two foreign engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan came against a massive wave of public disapproval.

How are they serving the UK at this point?

[Valaran]

Well I think more than just them should get some respect (my point wasn't meant to just be specific to the armed forces). But I feel that it does take some courage to serve for your country, and that they do actually serve the UK so that in return they deserve some respect for this. Of course, some members may abuse this, but that is not the army as a whole.

The last two foreign engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan came against a massive wave of public disapproval.

How are they serving the UK at this point?

The war itself may or may not be just, but that isn't the army's fault. They were sent in by the politicians.

And they still do serve the UK, as well as fighting these wars.


For the record, I thought people would pick up on my first point but not the fact that I disagreed with Labour here. The point they raise is moot, as it is already illegal to assault anyone.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Good Job labour.

[Computerised Equality]

Y'know, aren't there alreay laws against assault and discrimination for any reason? Does anyone know what these laws would actually change?

[Valaran]

Y'know, aren't there alreay laws against assault and discrimination for any reason? Does anyone know what these laws would actually change?

^this.

[Wild Turkeys]

Y'know, aren't there alreay laws against assault and discrimination for any reason? Does anyone know what these laws would actually change?

There aren't laws against discrimination for any reason because that would be a bit mental but presumably making them a protected class would carry greater punishment.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

The war itself may or may not be just, but that isn't the arm,y's fault. They were sent in by the politicians.

So?

Army's still very actively recruiting people despite not fighting a defensive war in decades. Not like they couldn't undermine the government, they've just chosen not to.

And they still do serve the UK, as well as fighting these wars.

If what you're basically getting to is "they are a civil force which does things like put up flood barriers", then yeah sure we could do with one of those, just probably doesn't need helicopter gunships or overpriced fighter planes. Fucking make one, go for it. There's something I think we could all get behind.

[New Aerios]

It's illegal to assault a person. Why make a separate offence - are they not people?

This sort of thing is to be expected from Labour. Strong, powerful state, regulations upon regulations upon regulations, soldier worship, mandatory state ID cards, unjust wars going against the will of the population. If one were to call them Fascists, one wouldn't be far off.

[Valaran]

The war itself may or may not be just, but that isn't the arm,y's fault. They were sent in by the politicians.

So?

Army's still very actively recruiting people despite not fighting a defensive war in decades. Not like they couldn't undermine the government, they've just chosen not to.

And they still do serve the UK, as well as fighting these wars.

If what you're basically getting to is "they are a civil force which does things like put up flood barriers", then yeah sure we could do with one of those, just probably doesn't need helicopter gunships or overpriced fighter planes. Fucking make one, go for it. There's something I think we could all get behind.

So what you are saying with that first point is that, is that just because we haven't fought a defensive war means that we don't need armed forces again? That's not quite how it works; just because the 90s was a peaceful decade for us doesn't automatically mean that the same will be true in 20 years time.


They can have more than one role. They are both a civil defense force, and (primarily) a military force. Thus, it is somewhat of a false choice to choose between the two roles, as they are not mutually exclusive.

[Computerised Equality]

Y'know, aren't there alreay laws against assault and discrimination for any reason? Does anyone know what these laws would actually change?

There aren't laws against discrimination for any reason because that would be a bit mental but presumably making them a protected class would carry greater punishment.

Ah, fair enough.

So?

Army's still very actively recruiting people despite not fighting a defensive war in decades. Not like they couldn't undermine the government, they've just chosen not to.

Would you rather we had a military junta? I mean, the Tories aren't my first choice, but I'd rather the Army follow the people that were democratically elected rather than start governing by themselves.

It's illegal to assault a person. Why make a separate offence - are they not people?

This sort of thing is to be expected from Labour. Strong, powerful state, regulations upon regulations upon regulations, soldier worship, mandatory state ID cards, unjust wars going against the will of the population. If one were to call them Fascists, one wouldn't be far off.

Why do you expect that from Labour?

[New Aerios]

It's illegal to assault a person. Why make a separate offence - are they not people?

This sort of thing is to be expected from Labour. Strong, powerful state, regulations upon regulations upon regulations, soldier worship, mandatory state ID cards, unjust wars going against the will of the population. If one were to call them Fascists, one wouldn't be far off.

Why do you expect that from Labour?

Because half of it is what they've already done or tried to do, and the other half is what they say they want to do. I'd be stupid to expect Labour to suddenly change their behaviour after years of populist rhetoric and authoritarian policies.

[Geilinor]

Labour got the country into Iraq, I suppose this is fitting for them.

[Computerised Equality]

Because half of it is what they've already done or tried to do, and the other half is what they say they want to do. I'd be stupid to expect Labour to suddenly change their behaviour after years of populist rhetoric and authoritarian policies.

Well, fair enough, but how much of that is a bad thing? We want the government to actually be able to govern, don't we? It's a part of their name, after all! Regulations can be bad, yes, but without regulation we'll end up with everyone screwing everyone else over continuously. It'd be the banking crisis every single year (not literally, but something similar.) Venerating soldiers by itself isn't a bad thing. They're people who are willing to lay their lives down in our defence, they should be respected for that, even if they haven't had the opportunity to defend us recently. I can't see a benefit to the ID cards, admittedly, and wars against the view of the people are outright bad, just or not, but those are the only two that are bad, imho.

[Ifreann]

Shitty, populist ideas that will do nothing to benefit the UK, or even their armed forces, really.

[Britannic Realms]

I admire and respect the armed forces and Labour should not use them to spread their own brand of shitty populism.

[Dejanic]

Lol, it's like Labour are trying to persuade me not to vote for them.

[The Yorkshire Commonwealth]

I like it better when it's the Tories coming out with some meaningless gesture-politics... It means they're too busy to break anything that day.

[Geilinor]

I like it better when it's the Tories coming out with some meaningless gesture-politics... It means they're too busy to break anything that day.

Or maybe *shudder* the Tories have real policies and Labour doesn't.

[Herrebrugh]

So... Are there actually still people in Labour who call themselves socialists? I hope not.