I'd assume it's something to do with generally having few women in politics. Which is an issue for a variety of reasons, and the allegations of parliamentary sexual harassment probably doesn't help.
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by Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:27 am
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:27 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual.

by Arglorand » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:27 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
I agree entirely.
And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual. Have fun~!

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:28 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Aurora Novus wrote:It's the absurdity of gender that is the very reason why I reject transgender people's genders, as I do with all genders.
![]()
People with a lack of gender and an absence of gender identity besides said lack generally suffer from gender dysphoria.
I'd know since I feel far more misgendered by being interpreted as man instead of neutral/agender.
How does your theory explain gender dysphoria? Gender isn't an option, it isn't an arbitrary assessment, it is part of the integrity and essence of the person you are. You would probably understand what I mean if suddenly you started to get your body slowly get the physical characteristics associated with the opposite set of binary people.
If it wasn't uncomfortable, suffocating and very real like that, people wouldn't be transgender, because nobody's cray-cray enough to choose such a thing!

by Aurora Novus » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:28 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:People with a lack of gender and an absence of gender identity besides said lack generally suffer from gender dysphoria.
I'd know since I feel far more misgendered by being interpreted as man instead of neutral/agender.
How does your theory explain gender dysphoria? Gender isn't an option, it isn't an arbitrary assessment, it is part of the integrity and essence of the person you are. You would probably understand what I mean if suddenly you started to get your body slowly get the physical characteristics associated with the opposite set of binary people.
If it wasn't uncomfortable, suffocating and very real like that, people wouldn't be transgender, because nobody's cray-cray enough to choose such a thing!

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:29 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
I agree entirely.
And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual. Have fun~!

by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:30 am
Arglorand wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual. Have fun~!
Did I mention that I have a shitton of respect for you locked away in my closet? Here, have it.

by Aurora Novus » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:30 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual. Have fun~!

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:33 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual.
![]()
Fuck, there's a tear in my right eye.
I'm sure if gender was an arbitrary personal psychological construct, I wouldn't heavily empathize with what you feel.

by Arglorand » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:35 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:![]()
People with a lack of gender and an absence of gender identity besides said lack generally suffer from gender dysphoria.
I'd know since I feel far more misgendered by being interpreted as man instead of neutral/agender.
How does your theory explain gender dysphoria? Gender isn't an option, it isn't an arbitrary assessment, it is part of the integrity and essence of the person you are. You would probably understand what I mean if suddenly you started to get your body slowly get the physical characteristics associated with the opposite set of binary people.
If it wasn't uncomfortable, suffocating and very real like that, people wouldn't be transgender, because nobody's cray-cray enough to choose such a thing!
It's real man / real womaning.
If people just shut the fuck up and stopped telling a person born male who identifies as a woman
"You're a male" and "That is what a female looks like."
If they just stopped doing that shit, then when/if the person identifies as a female, they wouldn't be so distraught by it.
I'm not saying they choose it. I'd explicitly deny that.
(Though in my opinion, someone can carefully DECONSTRUCT their gender identity to become genderless, it isn't really possible to choose a gender.)
I'd say they simply identify with another gender because of cultural and social factors. It's a symptom of granfalloons.
If I declare myself a fuzzylumpkin, and say you are a didgeradon, and we convince society to divide itself between those camps and start insisting that it isn't arbitrary bullshit, eventually, someone will start identifying as both. Or neither. Or cross the floor.

by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:36 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
And that helps reaffirm your identity as two very special and unique snowflakes I'm sure. Just as my gender identity continues to help me negotiate social structures and existence. Luckily you cannot force compliance with your ideas of "freedom" and instead can only frustratedly assert that it must go away on the internet while everyone else goes on with their lives as usual. Have fun~!
Heres the thing. I don't identify as genderlerss. I just am.
That's what you don't get. I don't think i'm a special snowflake or anything. I just think the rest of you are acting ridiculous. It isn't about me. It's about the rest of you.
It's like "Believing" in atheism.
No. That isn't what it's like.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:37 am
Arglorand wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's real man / real womaning.
If people just shut the fuck up and stopped telling a person born male who identifies as a woman
"You're a male" and "That is what a female looks like."
If they just stopped doing that shit, then when/if the person identifies as a female, they wouldn't be so distraught by it.
I'm not saying they choose it. I'd explicitly deny that.
(Though in my opinion, someone can carefully DECONSTRUCT their gender identity to become genderless, it isn't really possible to choose a gender.)
I'd say they simply identify with another gender because of cultural and social factors. It's a symptom of granfalloons.
If I declare myself a fuzzylumpkin, and say you are a didgeradon, and we convince society to divide itself between those camps and start insisting that it isn't arbitrary bullshit, eventually, someone will start identifying as both. Or neither. Or cross the floor.
And the problem is... where?
Why is it a fundamentally bad thing to declare yourself a fuzzylumpkin?
Let's take this to another sphere, that of ethnicity, which is not at all different from gender in this case. Fundamentally, there's no difference between me and a Russian. I'm an atheist. Lots of Russians are atheist. My native language is Lithuanian, but I'm sure there are Russians, especially in Lithuania, whose native language is also Lithuanian. I'm sure my blood type is the same as many Russians'. And I personally know Russians who enjoy high fantasy as much as me. So fundamentally, there's no physical difference between two different ethnicities.
But I am a Lithuanian. Not a Russian. And I would find it immensely offensive if someone called me Russian. And I know your rants about how "it's offensive" is not an argument, which are completely safe for you to post on the internet, because in real life people stop talking, storm off or downright punch you in the face when they hear something offensive coming from your lips. But I have this identity and it's mine and no matter how much anyone tries to abolish it I will have it because this arbitrary group is my group. It might be arbitrary, but it's mine.
And same goes for gender. My gender identity might be arbitrary, but it's fucking mine. And the only reason you don't understand this, forgive me for this implication, is because I think you just might not be able to empathise with me because you are agender and don't understand that some people can't be you.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:39 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Heres the thing. I don't identify as genderlerss. I just am.
That's what you don't get. I don't think i'm a special snowflake or anything. I just think the rest of you are acting ridiculous. It isn't about me. It's about the rest of you.
It's like "Believing" in atheism.
No. That isn't what it's like.
"Everyone apart from me is nuts - I'm the only one who can see clearly through the fog of sheeple and ideology". Let's be honest, without warning you find yourself falling from the sky sometimes on cold winters days, dontcha?
Advice offered honestly, the "special snowflake" thing in your sig really needs to go - why would you append to each of your posts something that subtracts credibility?

by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:39 am
Arglorand wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's real man / real womaning.
If people just shut the fuck up and stopped telling a person born male who identifies as a woman
"You're a male" and "That is what a female looks like."
If they just stopped doing that shit, then when/if the person identifies as a female, they wouldn't be so distraught by it.
I'm not saying they choose it. I'd explicitly deny that.
(Though in my opinion, someone can carefully DECONSTRUCT their gender identity to become genderless, it isn't really possible to choose a gender.)
I'd say they simply identify with another gender because of cultural and social factors. It's a symptom of granfalloons.
If I declare myself a fuzzylumpkin, and say you are a didgeradon, and we convince society to divide itself between those camps and start insisting that it isn't arbitrary bullshit, eventually, someone will start identifying as both. Or neither. Or cross the floor.
And the problem is... where?
Why is it a fundamentally bad thing to declare yourself a fuzzylumpkin?
Let's take this to another sphere, that of ethnicity, which is not at all different from gender in this case. Fundamentally, there's no difference between me and a Russian. I'm an atheist. Lots of Russians are atheist. My native language is Lithuanian, but I'm sure there are Russians, especially in Lithuania, whose native language is also Lithuanian. I'm sure my blood type is the same as many Russians'. And I personally know Russians who enjoy high fantasy as much as me. So fundamentally, there's no physical difference between two different ethnicities.
But I am a Lithuanian. Not a Russian. And I would find it immensely offensive if someone called me Russian. And I know your rants about how "it's offensive" is not an argument, which are completely safe for you to post on the internet, because in real life people stop talking, storm off or downright punch you in the face when they hear something offensive coming from your lips. But I have this identity and it's mine and no matter how much anyone tries to abolish it I will have it because this arbitrary group is my group. It might be arbitrary, but it's mine.
And same goes for gender. My gender identity might be arbitrary, but it's fucking mine. And the only reason you don't understand this, forgive me for this implication, is because I think you just might not be able to empathise with me because you are agender and don't understand that some people can't be you.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:40 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Arglorand wrote:And the problem is... where?
Why is it a fundamentally bad thing to declare yourself a fuzzylumpkin?
Let's take this to another sphere, that of ethnicity, which is not at all different from gender in this case. Fundamentally, there's no difference between me and a Russian. I'm an atheist. Lots of Russians are atheist. My native language is Lithuanian, but I'm sure there are Russians, especially in Lithuania, whose native language is also Lithuanian. I'm sure my blood type is the same as many Russians'. And I personally know Russians who enjoy high fantasy as much as me. So fundamentally, there's no physical difference between two different ethnicities.
But I am a Lithuanian. Not a Russian. And I would find it immensely offensive if someone called me Russian. And I know your rants about how "it's offensive" is not an argument, which are completely safe for you to post on the internet, because in real life people stop talking, storm off or downright punch you in the face when they hear something offensive coming from your lips. But I have this identity and it's mine and no matter how much anyone tries to abolish it I will have it because this arbitrary group is my group. It might be arbitrary, but it's mine.
And same goes for gender. My gender identity might be arbitrary, but it's fucking mine. And the only reason you don't understand this, forgive me for this implication, is because I think you just might not be able to empathise with me because you are agender and don't understand that some people can't be you.
Fuckin' nailed.

by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:40 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:If people just shut the fuck up and stopped telling a person born male who identifies as a woman
"You're a male" and "That is what a female looks like."
If they just stopped doing that shit, then when/if the person identifies as a female, they wouldn't be so distraught by it.

by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:43 am

by Aurora Novus » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:44 am
Arglorand wrote:And the problem is... where?
Why is it a fundamentally bad thing to declare yourself a fuzzylumpkin?
And same goes for gender. My gender identity might be arbitrary, but it's fucking mine. And the only reason you don't understand this, forgive me for this implication, is because I think you just might not be able to empathise with me because you are agender and don't understand that some people can't be you.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:45 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Oh I see. So it really is as stupid as nationality. Then I don't need to even pretend to take you seriously anymore.
"Fuckin' Nailed." indeed.
Partitionists one and all.
![]()
Ostro's secret identity exposed

by Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:46 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:![]()
People with a lack of gender and an absence of gender identity besides said lack generally suffer from gender dysphoria.
I'd know since I feel far more misgendered by being interpreted as man instead of neutral/agender.
How does your theory explain gender dysphoria? Gender isn't an option, it isn't an arbitrary assessment, it is part of the integrity and essence of the person you are. You would probably understand what I mean if suddenly you started to get your body slowly get the physical characteristics associated with the opposite set of binary people.
If it wasn't uncomfortable, suffocating and very real like that, people wouldn't be transgender, because nobody's cray-cray enough to choose such a thing!
It's real man / real womaning.
If people just shut the fuck up and stopped telling a person born male who identifies as a woman
"You're a male" and "That is what a female looks like."
If they just stopped doing that shit, then when/if the person identifies as a female, they wouldn't be so distraught by it.
I'm not saying they choose it. I'd explicitly deny that.
(Though in my opinion, someone can carefully DECONSTRUCT their gender identity to become genderless, it isn't really possible to choose a gender.)
I'd say they simply identify with another gender because of cultural and social factors. It's a symptom of granfalloons.
If I declare myself a fuzzylumpkin, and say you are a didgeradon, and we convince society to divide itself between those camps and start insisting that it isn't arbitrary bullshit, eventually, someone will start identifying as both. Or neither. Or cross the floor.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:46 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Fuckin' nailed.

by Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:48 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:Fuckin' nailed.
I don't really think they are on the agender spectrum.
They're more like cisgender people who don't understand how gender works because their natally assigned gender caused them and people around them apparently more trouble than nothing.
I see a lot of radfems do that. They totally erase transgender experiences as bullshit and misogynistic conspiracies. At the end of the day they're ridiculous.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:50 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:Fuckin' nailed.
I don't really think they are on the agender spectrum.
They're more like cisgender people who don't understand how gender works because their natally assigned gender caused them and people around them apparently more trouble than nothing.
I see a lot of radfems do that. They totally erase transgender experiences as bullshit and misogynistic conspiracies. At the end of the day they're ridiculous.

by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:52 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:I don't really think they are on the agender spectrum.
They're more like cisgender people who don't understand how gender works because their natally assigned gender caused them and people around them apparently more trouble than nothing.
I see a lot of radfems do that. They totally erase transgender experiences as bullshit and misogynistic conspiracies. At the end of the day they're ridiculous.
So because of our politics you've decided we can't be telling the truth about our gender.
The only real transpersons are ones who agree with you, and yet you accuse the radfems of conspiracy theorizing?
Pretty funny. Sad, but funny.
For the record, I'm well aware of the trans experience. I know how much it can infuriate and distress someone to be constantly misgendered. I know what it's like to see people file off into seperate gender groups and then feel distraught that you can't join the one you identify with (or lack thereof. For me the distress comes from having to lie and just choose one, usually male to avoid complaints.)
Every time someone calls me he, or she for that matter, I have to bite my tongue and smile at them to prevent me shouting them down.
So when someone like you, who is supposedly on the same wavelength, decides I'm not really agendered because I despise gender identities, you are trying to tell me I must secretly be a male.
The same shit i've had to put up with people doing to me my entire life. Fuck off.

by Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:55 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
So because of our politics you've decided we can't be telling the truth about our gender.
The only real transpersons are ones who agree with you, and yet you accuse the radfems of conspiracy theorizing?
Pretty funny. Sad, but funny.
For the record, I'm well aware of the trans experience. I know how much it can infuriate and distress someone to be constantly misgendered. I know what it's like to see people file off into seperate gender groups and then feel distraught that you can't join the one you identify with (or lack thereof. For me the distress comes from having to lie and just choose one, usually male to avoid complaints.)
Every time someone calls me he, or she for that matter, I have to bite my tongue and smile at them to prevent me shouting them down.
So when someone like you, who is supposedly on the same wavelength, decides I'm not really agendered because I despise gender identities, you are trying to tell me I must secretly be a male.
The same shit i've had to put up with people doing to me my entire life. Fuck off.
It isn't very nice when the legitimacy of your identity is questioned, is it?
Physician, heal thyself.
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