Is ''Hooters'' Degrading To Women?

[Zottistan]

What's degrading about that? People like tits.

What's degrading about being hired to be a walking, talking set of tits I wonder...

If you choose to work as a walking, talking set of tits, that's your problem. I'm sure there were plenty of other places offering similar wages to Hooters.

[Constantinopolis]

Where is it said that they are forced into this particular job? You presumed so, because to your utter-conservative mindset it is degrading for any human to have sex, dance etc for money even if she/he wishes to do so. Really, I myself argue about the payment gap between men and women, or the negative impact of gender roles, but what you support doesn't have to do with sexism, but more with a conservative moralistic societal tendency that considers sex to be a taboo.

*ahem* Maybe it's time for someone with an actual "conservative mindset" to step in. Although I wouldn't actually use that label for myself on any set of issues (since I am, after all, a communist), I am vehemently opposed to liberalism in all its forms.

Yes, of course Hooters is degrading to women. To even suggest otherwise smacks of denialism on the part of horny men who want to be able to enjoy the degradation of women without feeling guilty (note: in case you're wondering, I am a man, so I'm speaking of my own gender here). The question of whether the waitresses at Hooters are doing it voluntarily or whether they are forced into it because they need money and lack other options, is frankly irrelevant. Hooters remains just as degrading either way. Hooters could have a staff composed entirely of rich girls doing it for fun, and it would still be degrading.

"Degrading" does not mean "involuntary." Some things are objectively degrading, no matter what the people involved in them think, no matter if these people are coerced into doing those things by poverty or if they're just doing them for fun. Prostitution, for example, is degrading to women. Always. End of story.

Something that is degrading to women is something that promotes cultural attitudes of seeing women as existing for the pleasure and enjoyment of men. Whether something is degrading or not depends entirely on the kind of attitudes it promotes among the customers (restaurant-goers, men who hire prostitutes, etc.), not on the financial situation of the employees/performers/"service providers".

Treating someone as "eye candy", as an object to be appreciated for its ability to sexually arouse you, is degrading, insulting, and vile. It does not matter if the person is willing. Some people are willing to physically hurt themselves, too (for example by cutting themselves). Would it be ok to pay them for it and then sit back and watch? Of course not.

And if you'll allow me a little rant, I am sick and tired of all this "blah blah blah let's embrace sexuality, everything goes between consenting adults, voluntary sexualization is ok" bullshit. Don't pretend you don't know what our hyper-sexualized culture and media is doing to young girls. Don't pretend that putting pictures of scantly-clad women everywhere is just harmless fun as long as the women in the pictures are willing. And don't pretend that a place like Hooters is perfectly okay as long as its employees are volunteering for the job. All these things - together with porn, prostitution, and many others - are sending a poisonous message to women and girls in our culture: "You must be sexual and sexy in order to be valued. You must look and act pleasing to men. Your body is a piece of meat to be bought and sold, and empowerment consists of making sure that you are the one doing the selling, as opposed to having someone else sell you."

Sex is a private and intimate act. It should be kept private and intimate, not plastered all over the media, not exploited for profit, not blatantly alluded to in public spaces. And women should not be culturally pressured into looking or acting a certain way.

[Dakini]

Yup.

That's bad, but it is their choice.
Can't do something about it unless the managers breach the contract and go into further sexual harassment.

Eh... it's kinda debatable whether it's actually legal to do this. Considering that they've lost a few sexual harassment lawsuits already, it looks like this part of the contract is not enforceable.

It's definitely despicable that they try.

[Ardoki]

Where is it said that they are forced into this particular job? You presumed so, because to your utter-conservative mindset it is degrading for any human to have sex, dance etc for money even if she/he wishes to do so. Really, I myself argue about the payment gap between men and women, or the negative impact of gender roles, but what you support doesn't have to do with sexism, but more with a conservative moralistic societal tendency that considers sex to be a taboo.

*ahem* Maybe it's time for someone with an actual "conservative mindset" to step in. Although I wouldn't actually use that label for myself on any set of issues (since I am, after all, a communist), I am vehemently opposed to liberalism in all its forms.

Yes, of course Hooters is degrading to women. To even suggest otherwise smacks of denialism on the part of horny men who want to be able to enjoy the degradation of women without feeling guilty (note: in case you're wondering, I am a man, so I'm speaking of my own gender here). The question of whether the waitresses at Hooters are doing it voluntarily or whether they are forced into it because they need money and lack other options, is frankly irrelevant. Hooters remains just as degrading either way. Hooters could have a staff composed entirely of rich girls doing it for fun, and it would still be degrading.

"Degrading" does not mean "involuntary." Some things are objectively degrading, no matter what the people involved in them think, no matter if these people are coerced into doing those things by poverty or if they're just doing them for fun. Prostitution, for example, is degrading to women. Always. End of story.

Something that is degrading to women is something that promotes cultural attitudes of seeing women as existing for the pleasure and enjoyment of men. Whether something is degrading or not depends entirely on the kind of attitudes it promotes among the customers (restaurant-goers, men who hire prostitutes, etc.), not on the financial situation of the employees/performers/"service providers".

Treating someone as "eye candy", as an object to be appreciated for its ability to sexually arouse you, is degrading, insulting, and vile. It does not matter if the person is willing. Some people are willing to physically hurt themselves, too (for example by cutting themselves). Would it be ok to pay them for it and then sit back and watch? Of course not.

And if you'll allow me a little rant, I am sick and tired of all this "blah blah blah let's embrace sexuality, everything goes between consenting adults, voluntary sexualization is ok" bullshit. Don't pretend you don't know what our hyper-sexualized culture and media is doing to young girls. Don't pretend that putting pictures of scantly-clad women everywhere is just harmless fun as long as the women in the pictures are willing. And don't pretend that a place like Hooters is perfectly okay as long as its employees are volunteering for the job. All these things - together with porn, prostitution, and many others - are sending a poisonous message to women and girls in our culture: "You must be sexual and sexy in order to be valued. You must look and act pleasing to men. Your body is a piece of meat to be bought and sold, and empowerment consists of making sure that you are the one doing the selling, as opposed to having someone else sell you."

Sex is a private and intimate act. It should be kept private and intimate, not plastered all over the media, not exploited for profit, not blatantly alluded to in public spaces. And women should not be culturally pressured into looking or acting a certain way.

+1 I love this post. Thanks.

[Dakini]

And I was sexually assaulted by a coworker while working at a normal restaurant.
Ban all restaurants!

Someone was saying in another thread that it's endemic in the restaurant industry in general. Probably because they know there are a lot of people working in restaurants that are desperate to keep their job, don't have a lot of other options, and don't have the money for legal fees.

It's also one thing for it to happen and for the company to at least be like "we don't condone that sort of behaviour from our managers" and another to make the employees sign a paper promising not to sue when they are sexually harassed.

[Master Shake]

Where is it said that they are forced into this particular job? You presumed so, because to your utter-conservative mindset it is degrading for any human to have sex, dance etc for money even if she/he wishes to do so. Really, I myself argue about the payment gap between men and women, or the negative impact of gender roles, but what you support doesn't have to do with sexism, but more with a conservative moralistic societal tendency that considers sex to be a taboo.

And if you'll allow me a little rant, I am sick and tired of all this "blah blah blah let's embrace sexuality, everything goes between consenting adults, voluntary sexualization is ok" bullshit. Don't pretend you don't know what our hyper-sexualized culture and media is doing to young girls. Don't pretend that putting pictures of scantly-clad women everywhere is just harmless fun as long as the women in the pictures are willing..

Yeah,yeah sex is bad we get it...

What would you do if your daughter was a porn star or a stripper though?

I bet you'd be wishing she was only a Hooter's girl.

Anyway I agree with the gentleman from the UK that bar or pubs only hire attractive women.You don't want a seahag serving you beer...do you?

I guess it does boil down to culture however since most Europeans and American's like cute woman and I guess Russia doesn't really care...oh wait a minute...Glorious leader has cute girl calender!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11500012

http://www.theweek.co.uk/pictures/28847 ... ndar-girls

We Americans and our European brothers aren't alone in our desire to see lovely looking women it seems...

Edit:Is it a requirement as a communist to hate cute girls and to call Hooter's an establishment of the decadent west?

[GraySoap]

I never knew that people cared so much about such small things.

We should really look into making chemtrails a reality.

[Veceria]

Boobs are degrading to women, so let's cut them off.
Right?

[Master Shake]

Boobs are degrading to women, so let's cut them off.
Right?

But they provide life giving milk for our young!!

[Veceria]

Boobs are degrading to women, so let's cut them off.
Right?

But they provide life giving milk for our young!!

Pfff, we have artificial milk for that.

[GraySoap]

Boobs are degrading to women, so let's cut them off.
Right?

It is unequal. We should introduce handicap so that some women are not more equal than other women. And we should cut off the hand of any lech who dares look at woman, no less pay to eat in an establishment filled with busty company. These men are pigs and should be taught lesson in humanity.

[Veceria]

Boobs are degrading to women, so let's cut them off.
Right?

It is unequal. We should introduce handicap so that some women are not more equal than other women. And we should cut off the hand of any lech who dares look at woman, no less pay to eat in an establishment filled with busty company. These men are pigs and should be taught lesson in humanity.

We should just make all humans blind, then we don't have such problems.

[Master Shake]

But they provide life giving milk for our young!!

Pfff, we have artificial milk for that.

You animal!!

No artificial milk will enter my children's mouth.

[Veceria]

Pfff, we have artificial milk for that.

You animal!!

No artificial milk will enter my children's mouth.

It won't even notice it, trust me!
Please consult your doctor for possible adverse effects.

[Pope Joan]

I know families who go to Hooters, and enjoy it. I guess Mom is a good sport?

I also know a fine person, an artisan, who had her breasts removed because she hated to have people staring at them.

[Camelza]

Where is it said that they are forced into this particular job? You presumed so, because to your utter-conservative mindset it is degrading for any human to have sex, dance etc for money even if she/he wishes to do so. Really, I myself argue about the payment gap between men and women, or the negative impact of gender roles, but what you support doesn't have to do with sexism, but more with a conservative moralistic societal tendency that considers sex to be a taboo.

*ahem* Maybe it's time for someone with an actual "conservative mindset" to step in. Although I wouldn't actually use that label for myself on any set of issues (since I am, after all, a communist), I am vehemently opposed to liberalism in all its forms.

Ok, let's hear it...

Yes, of course Hooters is degrading to women. To even suggest otherwise smacks of denialism on the part of horny men who want to be able to enjoy the degradation of women without feeling guilty (note: in case you're wondering, I am a man, so I'm speaking of my own gender here). The question of whether the waitresses at Hooters are doing it voluntarily or whether they are forced into it because they need money and lack other options, is frankly irrelevant. Hooters remains just as degrading either way. Hooters could have a staff composed entirely of rich girls doing it for fun, and it would still be degrading.

See, I don't have a problem with sexualisation of humans in general, not just with women ...I don't consider degrading for a man to be buttered up wearing a tonga while poledancing for some girls that want to have their night out, it's his choice and I respect it.

"Degrading" does not mean "involuntary." Some things are objectively degrading, no matter what the people involved in them think, no matter if these people are coerced into doing those things by poverty or if they're just doing them for fun. Prostitution, for example, is degrading to women. Always. End of story.

Prostitution is not degrading, it's degrading according to you. I can understand your point, that materialiasing sex is pretty bad and destroys romance, love etc... but, you have no right to say what other people shall choose as their employment, you can though support their worker rights.

Something that is degrading to women is something that promotes cultural attitudes of seeing women as existing for the pleasure and enjoyment of men. Whether something is degrading or not depends entirely on the kind of attitudes it promotes among the customers (restaurant-goers, men who hire prostitutes, etc.), not on the financial situation of the employees/performers/"service providers".

Gender roles will be eliminated through education, not by banning strip-clubs.

Treating someone as "eye candy", as an object to be appreciated for its ability to sexually arouse you, is degrading, insulting, and vile. It does not matter if the person is willing. Some people are willing to physically hurt themselves, too (for example by cutting themselves). Would it be ok to pay them for it and then sit back and watch? Of course not.

You're not the one to judge what other adults do, unless their not psychologically in full health. If person A is aroused by person B and person A pays person B to blow person A, if person B is happy to do so, you have no say in the matter.

And if you'll allow me a little rant, I am sick and tired of all this "blah blah blah let's embrace sexuality, everything goes between consenting adults, voluntary sexualization is ok" bullshit. Don't pretend you don't know what our hyper-sexualized culture and media is doing to young girls. Don't pretend that putting pictures of scantly-clad women everywhere is just harmless fun as long as the women in the pictures are willing. And don't pretend that a place like Hooters is perfectly okay as long as its employees are volunteering for the job. All these things - together with porn, prostitution, and many others - are sending a poisonous message to women and girls in our culture: "You must be sexual and sexy in order to be valued. You must look and act pleasing to men. Your body is a piece of meat to be bought and sold, and empowerment consists of making sure that you are the one doing the selling, as opposed to having someone else sell you."

You're overreacting, yes women are objectified in a larger portion than men, yes gender roles are responsible for this, but the reason is the ill-education of the masses. Also, being opposed to banning the free will of consenting adults, I cannot support the banning of legal and regulated prostitution, stripping, porn, etc.

Sex is a private and intimate act. It should be kept private and intimate, not plastered all over the media, not exploited for profit, not blatantly alluded to in public spaces.

That's your opinion, mate.

And women should not be culturally pressured into looking or acting a certain way.

As Tony Blair once said the solution is simply; Education, education, education.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I also know a fine person, an artisan, who had her breasts removed because she hated to have people staring at them.

I mean, I don't like people staring at my boobs either, but that's pretty extreme....

[Master Shake]

I also know a fine person, an artisan, who had her breasts removed because she hated to have people staring at them.

I mean, I don't like people staring at my boobs either, but that's pretty extreme....

I'm honestly quite saddened by this news.I mean to feel so harassed that she had to remove a part of her body just to feel comfortable as a human is just absolutely depressing.

I mean she has the right to do that,but ...damn...I feel bad as a man right now...

[GraySoap]

It is unequal. We should introduce handicap so that some women are not more equal than other women. And we should cut off the hand of any lech who dares look at woman, no less pay to eat in an establishment filled with busty company. These men are pigs and should be taught lesson in humanity.

We should just make all humans blind, then we don't have such problems.

but then men will fetishize what they feel. If we remove their hands they will fetishize what they can hear. If we remove their hearing, then they will fetishize what they taste. And if we remove their tongue, then, and only then, will society be safe from their lecherous ways.

[Ostroeuropa]

*ahem* Maybe it's time for someone with an actual "conservative mindset" to step in. Although I wouldn't actually use that label for myself on any set of issues (since I am, after all, a communist), I am vehemently opposed to liberalism in all its forms.

Ok, let's hear it...

Yes, of course Hooters is degrading to women. To even suggest otherwise smacks of denialism on the part of horny men who want to be able to enjoy the degradation of women without feeling guilty (note: in case you're wondering, I am a man, so I'm speaking of my own gender here). The question of whether the waitresses at Hooters are doing it voluntarily or whether they are forced into it because they need money and lack other options, is frankly irrelevant. Hooters remains just as degrading either way. Hooters could have a staff composed entirely of rich girls doing it for fun, and it would still be degrading.

See, I don't have a problem with sexualisation of humans in general, not just with women ...I don't consider degrading for a man to be buttered up wearing a tonga while poledancing for some girls that want to have their night out, it's his choice and I respect it.

"Degrading" does not mean "involuntary." Some things are objectively degrading, no matter what the people involved in them think, no matter if these people are coerced into doing those things by poverty or if they're just doing them for fun. Prostitution, for example, is degrading to women. Always. End of story.

Prostitution is not degrading, it's degrading according to you. I can understand your point, that materialiasing sex is pretty bad and destroys romance, love etc... but, you have no right to say what other people shall choose as their employment, you can though support their worker rights.

Something that is degrading to women is something that promotes cultural attitudes of seeing women as existing for the pleasure and enjoyment of men. Whether something is degrading or not depends entirely on the kind of attitudes it promotes among the customers (restaurant-goers, men who hire prostitutes, etc.), not on the financial situation of the employees/performers/"service providers".

Gender roles will be eliminated through education, not by banning strip-clubs.

Treating someone as "eye candy", as an object to be appreciated for its ability to sexually arouse you, is degrading, insulting, and vile. It does not matter if the person is willing. Some people are willing to physically hurt themselves, too (for example by cutting themselves). Would it be ok to pay them for it and then sit back and watch? Of course not.

You're not the one to judge what other adults do, unless their not psychologically in full health. If person A is aroused by person B and person A pays person B to blow person A, if person B is happy to do so, you have no say in the matter.

And if you'll allow me a little rant, I am sick and tired of all this "blah blah blah let's embrace sexuality, everything goes between consenting adults, voluntary sexualization is ok" bullshit. Don't pretend you don't know what our hyper-sexualized culture and media is doing to young girls. Don't pretend that putting pictures of scantly-clad women everywhere is just harmless fun as long as the women in the pictures are willing. And don't pretend that a place like Hooters is perfectly okay as long as its employees are volunteering for the job. All these things - together with porn, prostitution, and many others - are sending a poisonous message to women and girls in our culture: "You must be sexual and sexy in order to be valued. You must look and act pleasing to men. Your body is a piece of meat to be bought and sold, and empowerment consists of making sure that you are the one doing the selling, as opposed to having someone else sell you."

You're overreacting, yes women are objectified in a larger portion than men, yes gender roles are responsible for this, but the reason is the ill-education of the masses. Also, being opposed to banning the free will of consenting adults, I cannot support the banning of legal and regulated prostitution, stripping, porn, etc.

Sex is a private and intimate act. It should be kept private and intimate, not plastered all over the media, not exploited for profit, not blatantly alluded to in public spaces.

That's your opinion, mate.

And women should not be culturally pressured into looking or acting a certain way.

As Tony Blair once said the solution is simply; Education, education, education.

This, basically.

[Master Shake]

We should just make all humans blind, then we don't have such problems.

but then men will fetishize what they feel. If we remove their hands they will fetishize what they can hear. If we remove their hearing, then they will fetishize what they taste. And if we remove their tongue, then, and only then, will society be safe from their lecherous ways.

That isn't how fetishes work...

[Murkwood]

No.

Geez, nothing is good enough for radfems.

[Olthar]

Yes. Treating women as sex objects is very much degrading. If the waitresses like being there, then that's great for them. I'm glad they're happy, but they're still contributing to the mass cultural image of women as nothing more than pieces of meat to ogle.

[Greater-London]

I'm unsure I've never actually been to one. However its possible to view someone sexually and not degrade them.

[Ifreann]

I'm sure the ~90% male population of NSG will have valuable insight to offer on this topic, and I look forward to an enlightening thread.

Throw in the percentage that are hormone-addled heterosexual teenagers, and it can only prove to be even more enlightening than you'd likely anticipated.

Oh yeah, I'm enlightened as hell right now.