United States Almost had Universal Health Care

[Caverna]

Disgrace in your opinion because universal health care isn't mandatory in any way.

You are talking to a person who would ban private health practice, considering that Cuban life expectancy is higher and infant mortality is lower than the US shows the failures of the US system.

Climate.

[Geilinor]

You are talking to a person who would ban private health practice, considering that Cuban life expectancy is higher and infant mortality is lower than the US shows the failures of the US system.

Climate.

Not climate, but nutrition and lifestyle.

[Farnhamia]

With any new system you have kinks in it. But in all honesty, I like a open system where your not forced to get health care. It violates our freedoms, but I like the idea of all of the worthless bums on our system to start paying for something. So in all honesty, I am for it as long as it doesn't step on my freedoms too much.

Which system are you talking about?

[Caverna]

Switzerland health insurance is affordable for people living there.

For now, if there is an economic repression or depression, it is too market dependent.

Even in recession it would be affordable. Their health insurance is very cheap compared to their average wages.

[Socialist Tera]

For now, if there is an economic repression or depression, it is too market dependent.

Even in recession it would be affordable. Their health insurance is very cheap compared to their average wages.

Then enlighten me, why isn't it affordable in the US?

[Caverna]

Even in recession it would be affordable. Their health insurance is very cheap compared to their average wages.

Then enlighten me, why isn't it affordable in the US?

Because USA isn't Switzerland. There seems to be too much "air" in US health care costs.

[Geilinor]

Then enlighten me, why isn't it affordable in the US?

Because USA isn't Switzerland. There seems to be too much "air" in US health care costs.

What do you suggest we do?

[Viritica]

Because USA isn't Switzerland. There seems to be too much "air" in US health care costs.

What do you suggest we do?

Ban healthcare.

Simple.

[Murbleflip]

Source away, if you want. I still don't see how these problems - and they are problems - are serious enough that the NHS should be scrapped. What would you replace it with? The US system of private health care that's tied to your job, with government-provided care only after you reach 65? And you haven't said anything about the millions of people who've been treated by the NHS since the 1940s with no problems at all.

I didn't say NHS should be scrapped. I am saying, that NHS in Britain today is completely f*cked up and whole system needs massive purge from both useless surgeons and too bureaucrats.

I am from ex-socialist country with still massive public health care, so I know a thing or two how universal health care looks.
Too many 'Muricans around, I understand

I used British NHS simply as an example, that universal health care can end in horrific, inefficient and corrupted form.

This may have been addressed already, but none of the sources or cases you mentioned had anything to do with surgeons or bureaucrats. They were people dying of hunger/thirst. Since when do surgeons and bureaucrats cook food or fetch water in hospitals?

[Caverna]

Because USA isn't Switzerland. There seems to be too much "air" in US health care costs.

What do you suggest we do?

Consumer agencies must step up their game. Shouldn't they protect the customer? Profit isn't bad but it must be reasonable amount (5-10% or something like that).

[Socialist Czechia]

This may have been addressed already, but none of the sources or cases you mentioned had anything to do with surgeons or bureaucrats. They were people dying of hunger/thirst. Since when do surgeons and bureaucrats cook food or fetch water in hospitals?

When doctors don't care much about patients after surgery and bureaucrats try to make money cuts in everything, except their own salary and positions? You can actually blame both groups very easily. I blame second one much more, though. When you have shitty administration, it's the worst thing everywhere.

[Geilinor]

This may have been addressed already, but none of the sources or cases you mentioned had anything to do with surgeons or bureaucrats. They were people dying of hunger/thirst. Since when do surgeons and bureaucrats cook food or fetch water in hospitals?

When doctors don't care much about patients after surgery and bureaucrats try to make money cuts in everything, except their own salary and positions? You can actually blame both groups very easily. I blame second one much more, though. When you have shitty administration, it's the worst thing everywhere.

Doctors can only look at the medical aspects, while the other parts of a hospital stay fall to hospital administrators and nurses.

[Condunum]

Because USA isn't Switzerland. There seems to be too much "air" in US health care costs.

What do you suggest we do?

Require transparency. Transparency measures already forced some companies to lower their premiums because a few of their competitors had significantly lower premiums.

[Socialist Czechia]

When doctors don't care much about patients after surgery and bureaucrats try to make money cuts in everything, except their own salary and positions? You can actually blame both groups very easily. I blame second one much more, though. When you have shitty administration, it's the worst thing everywhere.

Doctors can only look at the medical aspects, while the other parts of a hospital stay fall to hospital administrators and nurses.

When doctor doesn't care that his patients are thirsty and hungry beyond reasonable border, I blame him not to care about them more (or yell to lazy nurses to care more, very at least).

[Murbleflip]

Doctors can only look at the medical aspects, while the other parts of a hospital stay fall to hospital administrators and nurses.

When doctor doesn't care that his patients are thirsty and hungry beyond reasonable border, I blame him not to care about them more (or yell to lazy nurses to care more, very at least).

Surely you could at least blame the nurses, not the surgeons whose job it is to operate on people rather than have anything to do with them later. Hell, surgeons aren't often involved with palliative care anyway.

[Norstal]

It is a disgrace that the US lacks Universal Health Care.

Not exactly. Plenty of wealthy and successful countries don't have universal healthcare.

For example, Switzerland.

Literally first sentence.

[Norstal]

Even in recession it would be affordable. Their health insurance is very cheap compared to their average wages.

Then enlighten me, why isn't it affordable in the US?

Cost of medical equipment and huge demand for it.

[Caverna]

Not exactly. Plenty of wealthy and successful countries don't have universal healthcare.

For example, Switzerland.

Literally first sentence.

Technically it isn't universal. It may be universal because buying insurance is compulsory.

[Viritica]

Not exactly. Plenty of wealthy and successful countries don't have universal healthcare.

For example, Switzerland.

Literally first sentence.

Okay, fine. Norway then.

[Caverna]

Literally first sentence.

Okay, fine. Norway then.

You sure about Norway? Norway has the most universal health care that is possible. Switzerland didn't have exactly universal health care. It is universal just because insurance is compulsory. But there is still choice.

[Murbleflip]

Literally first sentence.

Okay, fine. Norway then.

Yes, Norway.

[Frazers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_scandal

and the Keogh report that stemmed from it show some serious failings in the English NHS at the very least. Top that off with the disaster of the Liverpool Care Pathway and I think he's not far off.

One hospital scandal and a dubious treatment method for terminal patients (since phased out, by the way) doesn't mean the entire NHS is shit.

It's not a one hospital scandal. There were numerous hospitals placed on emergency measures and monitoring (see that's why I mentioned the Keogh report) and the LCP was only phased out because of massive public pressure after being highlighted by the press. The medical profession were stubborn as fuck when it came to that one despite the mountains of evidence against the LCP.

And the report today from the CQC showing another 4 are inadequate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27871453

[Viritica]

Okay, fine. Norway then.

Yes, Norway.

Okay, Sweden?

[Viritica]

Okay, fine. Norway then.

You sure about Norway? Norway has the most universal health care that is possible. Switzerland didn't have exactly universal health care. It is universal just because insurance is compulsory. But there is still choice.

Bullshit. Norway is the most right-wing country on earth.

[New haven america]

I'm sure we'd have a host of economic problems to go with it that we would have to deal with over the decades. History would certainly be different, but can we honestly day better? Too many variables.

Oh bullshit.