Would You Kill Someone if God Told You To?

[Greater-London]

If such a deity would punish me eternally for not following such a stupid order then they're not a deity I want to follow.

Also, you just contradicted yourself; if I refuse then being punished for eternity isn't giving me a "choice" in the matter, is it?

Why is it a stupid order? because you deem it stupid. It may seem stupid to you but your limited in the sense that your a person unlike God who isn't.

Much the same way a Toddler may think its stupid to be made to put their shoes away or clean their teeth however the adult knows that its the right thing to do.

Also I didn't contradict myself you demonstrated your free will through saying "Its a stupid order I'm not following it" just through towing that line their are certain consequences. Theres still a choice theres just one with a far superior outcome to the other that doesn't mean the choice doesn't exist.

Choose between eating a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg? ones obviously better but your still free to choose.

[Greater-London]

1. If God didn't want him around, he could have just not created him. Or created in a way he wouldn't outlive his usefulness to God."Really hot on"? A god kills people for fun, and you expect me to actually listen to it?

2. So God is basically toddler with superpowers? Presumably God is a reasoning agent. He thinks. And because of that, he can be held accountable and criticized for his actions.

1. Well because all humans have free will (God is supposed to have given it to us) perhaps this person had the opportunity to be good and virtuous but didn't take it . Also your judging God by your own secular standards of morality God has a different set and doesn't have to answer to them; I know its a bad argument but God if they exist can do whatever they want. Their stands of what is right and goodness may be different to you.

I don't expect you to listen to the God in this situation you may think they are wrong however they are supposed to be completely virtuous, right and loving. They ask you to do something you don't understand but its logical to do it as they are supposed to be GOOD and can give you eternal happiness.

2. No not at all, I never suggested that. Just beacuse they can do whatever they like - some of it may not make sense to you, doesn't make them a toddler with superpowers. God has reason and can think, he may even be criticized however if you believe that he is all powerful, all knowing, all loving ETC then he gets absolved from criticism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If such a deity would punish me eternally for not following such a stupid order then they're not a deity I want to follow.

Also, you just contradicted yourself; if I refuse then being punished for eternity isn't giving me a "choice" in the matter, is it?

Why is it a stupid order? because you deem it stupid. It may seem stupid to you but your limited in the sense that your a person unlike God who isn't.

Much the same way a Toddler may think its stupid to be made to put their shoes away or clean their teeth however the adult knows that its the right thing to do.

Also I didn't contradict myself you demonstrated your free will through saying "Its a stupid order I'm not following it" just through towing that line their are certain consequences. Theres still a choice theres just one with a far superior outcome to the other that doesn't mean the choice doesn't exist.

Choose between eating a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg? ones obviously better but your still free to choose.

No, it's stupid because there's no reason whatsoever why would God ask it out if he's all powerful. Plus, if God is better than humanity then why does he have to use us for his bidding? And why does he get a pass on saying "because I say so" while humans do not?

The difference between a toddler and an adult being is that the adult being can reason and usually have a sense of right and wrong. God doesn't get a pass simply because he's "not human" into explaining why is it that he needs me to do it while he can do it himself since he's all powerful.

Anyone can make a choice between a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg because they are not being punished by being sent to hell to be tortured eternally. Try telling a free man that you will waterboard them for eternity if they don't kill whoever you want them to kill.

[Zottistan]

If such a deity would punish me eternally for not following such a stupid order then they're not a deity I want to follow.

Also, you just contradicted yourself; if I refuse then being punished for eternity isn't giving me a "choice" in the matter, is it?

Why is it a stupid order? because you deem it stupid. It may seem stupid to you but your limited in the sense that your a person unlike God who isn't.

Much the same way a Toddler may think its stupid to be made to put their shoes away or clean their teeth however the adult knows that its the right thing to do.

Logic exists independently of what anybody, including God, thinks. One plus one is always two. That's the definition of one and two. A God choosing to kill somebody when he could have accomplished all his goals without killing people is illogical unless God enjoys killing people. That's objective logic. It doesn't matter what you, I or God think.

Also I didn't contradict myself you demonstrated your free will through saying "Its a stupid order I'm not following it" just through towing that line their are certain consequences. Theres still a choice theres just one with a far superior outcome to the other that doesn't mean the choice doesn't exist.

Choose between eating a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg? ones obviously better but your still free to choose.

So now God is bullying people into doing his will?

I honestly don't see why you have such respect for this being.

1. If God didn't want him around, he could have just not created him. Or created in a way he wouldn't outlive his usefulness to God."Really hot on"? A god kills people for fun, and you expect me to actually listen to it?

2. So God is basically toddler with superpowers? Presumably God is a reasoning agent. He thinks. And because of that, he can be held accountable and criticized for his actions.

1. Well because all humans have free will (God is supposed to have given it to us) perhaps this person had the opportunity to be good and virtuous but didn't take it .

But God, if he is omniscient, should have been able to predict his actions beforehand.

Also your judging God by your own secular standards of morality God has a different set and doesn't have to answer to them; I know its a bad argument but God if they exist can do whatever they want. Their stands of what is right and goodness may be different to you.

I don't expect you to listen to the God in this situation you may think they are wrong however they are supposed to be completely virtuous, right and loving. They ask you to do something you don't understand but its logical to do it as they are supposed to be GOOD and can give you eternal happiness.

They define good. They are supposed to be good by their own standards, which is the same for pretty much everybody. People can and do have moral beliefs that contradict the supposed moral code of God, and the only argument God's "system" has over theirs is that it's objective "because God says so".

As for eternal happiness, I like to think I have more integrity than that. It's probably wishful thinking on my part, though.

2. No not at all, I never suggested that. Just beacuse they can do whatever they like - some of it may not make sense to you, doesn't make them a toddler with superpowers. God has reason and can think, he may even be criticized however if you believe that he is all powerful, all knowing, all loving ETC then he gets absolved from criticism.

God cannot be all-powerful and all-loving in a world where suffering exists that is not caused by humans. Why would an all powerful, all-loving God create cancer?

[Freedom Planita 2]

No. I'd go to a psychiatric hospital.

Ditto for me

[Kainesia]

Would "God told me to do it" stand up in court?

I think i have a cunning plan...

[Veceria]

No. I'd go to a psychiatric hospital.

Ditto for me

I would wait for the voice to go away itself first. Maybe it's just a squirrel.

[The Alma Mater]

Would "God told me to do it" stand up in court?

It would in the court of heaven. Which, if the christians are right, is where you will spend the overwhelming majority of your existence.

I think i have a cunning plan...

No Baldrick. No.

[Mnar Secundus]

That wouldn't prove his divinity.

But Small Gods have to start somewhere.
They don't have enough Faith to power big time miracles.

While I enjoy your reference, I don't think this answers my point ... Ah, well, whatever. In fact, while we're on it, if a small god told me to kill someone, I might do it, since I'd be able to negociate a fitting (i.e. overwhelming) reward for myself. Presumably, the murder demanded by the small god would allow it to power up, since that's all they ever think about, so after I did it the god should be at least closer to giving me my reward. Then I can accomplish his other biddings, stacking up rewards every time, and become the master of the world or whatnot.

[Greater-London]

No, it's stupid because there's no reason whatsoever why would God ask it out if he's all powerful. Plus, if God is better than humanity then why does he have to use us for his bidding? And why does he get a pass on saying "because I say so" while humans do not?

The difference between a toddler and an adult being is that the adult being can reason and usually have a sense of right and wrong. God doesn't get a pass simply because he's "not human" into explaining why is it that he needs me to do it while he can do it himself since he's all powerful.

Anyone can make a choice between a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg because they are not being punished by being sent to hell to be tortured eternally. Try telling a free man that you will waterboard them for eternity if they don't kill whoever you want them to kill.

Well their might be it just might be a reason that we as people cannot understand. Because if he exists from a Christian perspective he is all loving, all knowing so therefore he gets to have a "because I said so pass" because he by definition will know better and not make a decision that is wrong. God is perfect humans are not.

The toddler analogy is bad, a better one is perhaps with a pet. I recently took my dog to be neutered I can't explain why that will make his life better, but it will do. The dog can never comprehend how removing his tackle is going to improve his life and he wont ever be able to reason with me, hes limited by his being a dog.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No, it's stupid because there's no reason whatsoever why would God ask it out if he's all powerful. Plus, if God is better than humanity then why does he have to use us for his bidding? And why does he get a pass on saying "because I say so" while humans do not?

The difference between a toddler and an adult being is that the adult being can reason and usually have a sense of right and wrong. God doesn't get a pass simply because he's "not human" into explaining why is it that he needs me to do it while he can do it himself since he's all powerful.

Anyone can make a choice between a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg because they are not being punished by being sent to hell to be tortured eternally. Try telling a free man that you will waterboard them for eternity if they don't kill whoever you want them to kill.

Well their might be it just might be a reason that we as people cannot understand. Because if he exists from a Christian perspective he is all loving, all knowing so therefore he gets to have a "because I said so pass" because he by definition will know better and not make a decision that is wrong. God is perfect humans are not.

The toddler analogy is bad, a better one is perhaps with a pet. I recently took my dog to be neutered I can't explain why that will make his life better, but it will do. The dog can never comprehend how removing his tackle is going to improve his life and he wont ever be able to reason with me, hes limited by his being a dog.

No, he doesn't. Just because he's somehow better that doesn't mean he gets to say "because I say so" when asked a reason. Also, a deity cannot be all loving if he orders you to kill someone. That contradicts in itself; omnibenevolence precedes the notion that he accepts all flaws. If we are told to kill a person it invariable presuposes two dilemmas:

- He isn't all loving and hence there must be a reason to kill someone
- He is all loving and therefore what he's telling us must not be reasonable to begin with

On your second point; you're not really good at this, are you?

[Zottistan]

No, it's stupid because there's no reason whatsoever why would God ask it out if he's all powerful. Plus, if God is better than humanity then why does he have to use us for his bidding? And why does he get a pass on saying "because I say so" while humans do not?

The difference between a toddler and an adult being is that the adult being can reason and usually have a sense of right and wrong. God doesn't get a pass simply because he's "not human" into explaining why is it that he needs me to do it while he can do it himself since he's all powerful.

Anyone can make a choice between a bar of chocolate or a rotten egg because they are not being punished by being sent to hell to be tortured eternally. Try telling a free man that you will waterboard them for eternity if they don't kill whoever you want them to kill.

Well their might be it just might be a reason that we as people cannot understand. Because if he exists from a Christian perspective he is all loving, all knowing so therefore he gets to have a "because I said so pass" because he by definition will know better and not make a decision that is wrong. God is perfect humans are not.

The toddler analogy is bad, a better one is perhaps with a pet. I recently took my dog to be neutered I can't explain why that will make his life better, but it will do. The dog can never comprehend how removing his tackle is going to improve his life and he wont ever be able to reason with me, hes limited by his being a dog.

Neutering the dog won't make his life better. It will make your life better by not having a load of puppies to deal with.

EDIT: If you were omnipotent, of course, you could prevent the puppies from being born without neutering your dog, and you would, if you were all-loving. The Christian perspective is inherently false because an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being is incompatible with a world with non-man-made suffering.

[Greater-London]

1. Logic exists independently of what anybody, including God, thinks. One plus one is always two. That's the definition of one and two. A God choosing to kill somebody when he could have accomplished all his goals without killing people is illogical unless God enjoys killing people. That's objective logic. It doesn't matter what you, I or God think.

2. I honestly don't see why you have such respect for this being.

3. They define good. They are supposed to be good by their own standards, which is the same for pretty much everybody. People can and do have moral beliefs that contradict the supposed moral code of God, and the only argument God's "system" has over theirs is that it's objective "because God says so".

As for eternal happiness, I like to think I have more integrity than that. It's probably wishful thinking on my part, though.

4. God cannot be all-powerful and all-loving in a world where suffering exists that is not caused by humans. Why would an all powerful, all-loving God create cancer?

1. Well without wanting to go all 1984 on your ass does one plus one always equal two? the worth of one is only what we say it is. All Maths, Science, Philosophy and Logic are ways in which humans understand and order the world they live in. Considering we are the inhabitants of the world and God is supposed to have made it then his rules needn't comply with ours, in fact they might trump them.

2. I don't I strongly doubt their existence, I just think its silly to apply a humanist brain or logic to this hypothetical because God if they do exist and they are the creator of life the universe and everything they can set and break the rules as they see fit.

3. If you believe in objective goods then the deffence of your moral code is simply "because my system is right". That's the same argument God if they exist uses. As such where they contradict you would pick God as they are supposed to be perfect and we all acknowledge humans aren't. I agree also that that's wishful thinking considering hell is the worst punishment ever and heaven is the best reward ever you'd have to be quite a special person to take that punishment.

4. Of course they can, it depends to the level that they micromanage life and the universe. Admittedly they probably do in this scenario because they are coming to you directly to kill another person.

[Greater-London]

Neutering the dog won't make his life better. It will make your life better by not having a load of puppies to deal with.

EDIT: If you were omnipotent, of course, you could prevent the puppies from being born without neutering your dog, and you would, if you were all-loving. The Christian perspective is inherently false because an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being is incompatible with a world with non-man-made suffering.

Well yes it will. He lives in a world where the likelihood of him being able to have puppies or even sleep with a female dog is slim. As such he would become frustrated, aggressive and miserable; its arguably far more kind to remove that impulse and have him live a happy healthy life than one where hes frustrated.

And yes I would, however I'm not omnipotent and I wouldn't say I was all loving either.

[Greater-London]

No, he doesn't. Just because he's somehow better that doesn't mean he gets to say "because I say so" when asked a reason. Also, a deity cannot be all loving if he orders you to kill someone. That contradicts in itself; omnibenevolence precedes the notion that he accepts all flaws. If we are told to kill a person it invariable presuposes two dilemmas:

- He isn't all loving and hence there must be a reason to kill someone
- He is all loving and therefore what he's telling us must not be reasonable to begin with

On your second point; you're not really good at this, are you?

No hes not somehow better, he is better, hes supposed to be flawless. If this is the case then if we cant understand him "Because I say so" IS always good enough because its impossible for him to be wrong.

As for my second point, it wasn't the best I will continue searching for a good example! the point I was making is that God doing something that you perceive as "bad" may not actually be "bad" and your are limited in a way that God arguable isn't.

[Zottistan]

1. Logic exists independently of what anybody, including God, thinks. One plus one is always two. That's the definition of one and two. A God choosing to kill somebody when he could have accomplished all his goals without killing people is illogical unless God enjoys killing people. That's objective logic. It doesn't matter what you, I or God think.

2. I honestly don't see why you have such respect for this being.

3. They define good. They are supposed to be good by their own standards, which is the same for pretty much everybody. People can and do have moral beliefs that contradict the supposed moral code of God, and the only argument God's "system" has over theirs is that it's objective "because God says so".

As for eternal happiness, I like to think I have more integrity than that. It's probably wishful thinking on my part, though.

4. God cannot be all-powerful and all-loving in a world where suffering exists that is not caused by humans. Why would an all powerful, all-loving God create cancer?

1. Well without wanting to go all 1984 on your ass does one plus one always equal two? the worth of one is only what we say it is. All Maths, Science, Philosophy and Logic are ways in which humans understand and order the world they live in. Considering we are the inhabitants of the world and God is supposed to have made it then his rules needn't comply with ours, in fact they might trump them.

2. I don't I strongly doubt their existence, I just think its silly to apply a humanist brain or logic to this hypothetical because God if they do exist and they are the creator of life the universe and everything they can set and break the rules as they see fit.

3. If you believe in objective goods then the deffence of your moral code is simply "because my system is right". That's the same argument God if they exist uses. As such where they contradict you would pick God as they are supposed to be perfect and we all acknowledge humans aren't. I agree also that that's wishful thinking considering hell is the worst punishment ever and heaven is the best reward ever you'd have to be quite a special person to take that punishment.

4. Of course they can, it depends to the level that they micromanage life and the universe. Admittedly they probably do in this scenario because they are coming to you directly to kill another person.

1. We could change the word "one" to mean four, but the concept of "one" exists regardless of what anybody thinks. Science and philosophy are perspective-based and inherently unobjective. Maths and logic aren't. The angles of a triangle will always sum 180 degrees, one plus one will always be two, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its radius will always be 2pi, etc, regardless of what anybody thinks or perceives. If God made a four-sided triangle, it wouldn't be a triangle. He could call it a triangle, but it would not meet the criteria for the shape we currently call a triangle.

2. If God can make and break the rules as He sees fit, so can any rational agent.

3. I don't believe in objective morality.

4. If a God allows cancer to exist because they're too lazy to fix it, they really aren't all that loving.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No hes not somehow better, he is better, hes supposed to be flawless. If this is the case then if we cant understand him "Because I say so" IS always good enough because its impossible for him to be wrong.

If he is flawless and, by definition, your deity is all powerful, all loving, and all knowing, then why would he not prevent the event of killing someone from happening instead of asking me to do something he can do?

[Zottistan]

Neutering the dog won't make his life better. It will make your life better by not having a load of puppies to deal with.

EDIT: If you were omnipotent, of course, you could prevent the puppies from being born without neutering your dog, and you would, if you were all-loving. The Christian perspective is inherently false because an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being is incompatible with a world with non-man-made suffering.

Well yes it will. He lives in a world where the likelihood of him being able to have puppies or even sleep with a female dog is slim. As such he would become frustrated, aggressive and miserable; its arguably far more kind to remove that impulse and have him live a happy healthy life than one where hes frustrated.

And yes I would, however I'm not omnipotent and I wouldn't say I was all loving either.

But if you were omnipotent, you'd find a way to relieve him of his sexual urges without neutering him?

[The Victorian Empire]

God wouldn't tell me to kill anybody. God loves everybody, he'd never want to see somebody be murdered.

OP, I don't think you know how hypothetical questions work. They have to be at least remotely possible. God telling anybody to kill somebody is not remotely possible.

[Magna Libero]

I don't know. I suppose I would if that victim is very evil.

Really, but how do I know if it's the devil or God, who is speaking to me?

But on another note, I don't think there's a difference between justified murder, killing in self-defense and killing someone in war.

[Zottistan]

God wouldn't tell me to kill anybody. God loves everybody, he'd never want to see somebody be murdered.

OP, I don't think you know how hypothetical questions work. They have to be at least remotely possible. God telling anybody to kill somebody is not remotely possible.

See: the Old Testament.

[Cyyro]

God wouldn't tell me to kill anybody. God loves everybody, he'd never want to see somebody be murdered.

OP, I don't think you know how hypothetical questions work. They have to be at least remotely possible. God telling anybody to kill somebody is not remotely possible.

He told Abraham to kill his son, I mean I know he stopped last second but he still ordered it.

[Stormaen]

Any excuse to kill... I mean, why no. It depends. How would I know if it was really God? And what about other 'gods'..?

I must rest now...

[Sun Wukong]

God wouldn't tell me to kill anybody. God loves everybody, he'd never want to see somebody be murdered.

OP, I don't think you know how hypothetical questions work. They have to be at least remotely possible. God telling anybody to kill somebody is not remotely possible.

He told Abraham to kill his son, I mean I know he stopped last second but he still ordered it.

Possibly relevant.

[The Norgan Alliance]

God wouldn't tell me to kill anybody. God loves everybody, he'd never want to see somebody be murdered.

OP, I don't think you know how hypothetical questions work. They have to be at least remotely possible. God telling anybody to kill somebody is not remotely possible.

He told Abraham to kill his son, I mean I know he stopped last second but he still ordered it.

If you read between the lines then you would see that that was a test of Abraham's faith.