Is killing pigs for food the same as murdering children?

[Solaray]

I will continue to eat bacon and meat in general. I will eat this meat without guilt and with the greatest gusto especially if vegans are present.

Damn straight my man.

[Blazedtown]

That's a decent philosophy.

But we can survive without a lot of things, like modern medicine and industry.

The question is: Can humanity thrive?

The human race a as a whole thrives on meat(or what nutrients we get from meat) and this is what makes us strong. Sure there are non-meat substances that currently give us this, but they either don't taste as good or aren't readily accessible to everyone(as in even the poor and lower-middle class).

So, until they can make a non-meat alternative that tastes just like chicken or cow or piggy and provides the nutrients that those would give me, I'll stick to eating living things.

How does humanity thrive on meat? I'm rather strong and healthy, and I've been a vegetarian since I was 4.

The proteins that we got from eating cooked meat and the fact that cooked meat is easier to chew than raw meat is what allowed our brains to develop the way there are. You sapience is the direct result eating meat, if meat is murder, then thought is a by product of a crime and you should forfeit your higher brain functions.

[Blazedtown]

I will continue to eat bacon and meat in general. I will eat this meat without guilt and with the greatest gusto especially if vegans are present.

How cool of you. All us vegetarians, we marvel in your awesomeness.

As you should.

[The Sotoan Union]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

[Viritica]

Lolno

[Rostogovia]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

[Mormak]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

Because the natural order is justification in and of itself?

[Margno]

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

Because the natural order is justification in and of itself?

But is it though? Spiders exist.

[Pandeeria]

Sorry, but intelligence doesn't matter worth a shit.

[Mormak]

Because the natural order is justification in and of itself?

But is it though? Spiders exist.

Spiders are useful

[The Sotoan Union]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

Because we are supposed to? Because our brains evolved to recognize them as a good source of protein? Because animals need to eat and kill other things to live?

[The Sotoan Union]

Because the natural order is justification in and of itself?

But is it though? Spiders exist.

I would hardly call spiders useless.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Multiple studies have shown that pigs preform better on intelligence tests and cognitive evaluations than most 3 year old children, indicating that they are just as sentient as 3 year old children of our own species. Mother pigs in factory farms are known to cry and howl for days after they are separated from their children, pacing around their pens and attempting to find their lost children. what does NS think, is the meat industry genocide?

"Pigs have the cognitive ability to be quite sophisticated. Even more so than dogs and certainly three-year olds.” — Professor Donald Broom, Oxford University

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/opinion/thinking-about-pigs-before-theyre-food.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html

Let me guess... PETA?
I know it's sad, but I will still eat meat, period.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

You are looking right at it, since we evolved to eat meat, then we can.

There is no reason to actually justify it, should we justify why Lions eat meat? Or wolves?

It just is, its nature, just because we have computers and espresso doesn't mean we are not a part of nature, we shall forever be a part of it.

A better thing to do is to ask should we treat our food well before we eat it?

You have an argument there

[Solaray]

We evolved to eat other animals. We didn't evolve to eat each other. Lots of animals do practice cannibalism and frequently eat their own species' offspring. If it were like eating our own children, then we would be regularly eating our own children no?

Yes we evolved to eat meat, but how does that justify it?

Yes.

As in, yes, it does justify it because that's the natural order.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I enjoy fruits and veggies, and cereals and grains, and all those snifty little things. Frozen grapes? Outstanding. Sliced apples with chunky peanut butter? Damn fine snackings right there. My Kashi cereal to boot, with yogurt even? Sweet. Nothing quite like a good refreshing salad now and then. Don't get me started on my Belvitas or cinnamon apple rice cakes.

However.

I also enjoy a good medium-rare steak. Bacon. Chops. Sausage. Bacon. Tacos. Roast. Bacon. Chicken of all sorts. Turkey. Bacon. Those awesome spiral cut hams. Bacon. Game hens. Jerky. Bacon. Oh gods with the bacon. Cheddarwursts. Meat pies. Did I mention the bacon? Yeah. Meat-tastic. Nothing - and I mean nothing - not your tofu or veggieburgers or anything else cuts it, or tastes the same. In spite of claims to the contrary. It does not. Period.

I grew up with grandparent's farms. We always had a pig out there named Herman. As little children, we got to feed Herman. I have pics of me and grandpa with Herman. We'd play with Herman.

And we ate Herman. Same with the calves we'd bottle feed from the auctions. When it got closer to time, they'd go to grandpa's - and then later, we had a freezer stocked with beef for the rest of the year. Same with the chickens. It's part of farming. There was no waste, there was a purpose, and there was no abuse to it. They were all well-cared for, and not slaughtered horribly. And the adults intro'd us to the facts of that gently but truthfully. You don't like how all that works? Don't eat meat. But bah gawd, don't force others to adhere to your personal ethics and choices. Your rights end where mine begin.

While I do not, in any way support any abuses that do supposedly happen in certain cases, I've known too may farmers and ranchers and the like, and how they handle their animals, and the knowledge that for chickens - they will not lay when stressed, cows won't produce milk, other animals won't eat, etc if suffering - and these people depend on the welfare of their animals to make a living. They are very unlikely to abuse and mistreat on account. And there have been enough attempts at blackmail, falsification, and other such bs by groups wanting to 'prove' things are bad to make me rather skeptical when people toss some of that up.

Anyways.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

(Image)

I enjoy fruits and veggies, and cereals and grains, and all those snifty little things. Frozen grapes? Outstanding. Sliced apples with chunky peanut butter? Damn fine snackings right there. My Kashi cereal to boot, with yogurt even? Sweet. Nothing quite like a good refreshing salad now and then. Don't get me started on my Belvitas or cinnamon apple rice cakes.

However.

I also enjoy a good medium-rare steak. Bacon. Chops. Sausage. Bacon. Tacos. Roast. Bacon. Chicken of all sorts. Turkey. Bacon. Those awesome spiral cut hams. Bacon. Game hens. Jerky. Bacon. Oh gods with the bacon. Cheddarwursts. Meat pies. Did I mention the bacon? Yeah. Meat-tastic. Nothing - and I mean nothing - not your tofu or veggieburgers or anything else cuts it, or tastes the same. In spite of claims to the contrary. It does not. Period.

I grew up with grandparent's farms. We always had a pig out there named Herman. As little children, we got to feed Herman. I have pics of me and grandpa with Herman. We'd play with Herman.

And we ate Herman. Same with the calves we'd bottle feed from the auctions. When it got closer to time, they'd go to grandpa's - and then later, we had a freezer stocked with beef for the rest of the year. Same with the chickens. It's part of farming. There was no waste, there was a purpose, and there was no abuse to it. They were all well-cared for, and not slaughtered horribly. And the adults intro'd us to the facts of that gently but truthfully. You don't like how all that works? Don't eat meat. But bah gawd, don't force others to adhere to your personal ethics and choices. Your rights end where mine begin.

While I do not, in any way support any abuses that do supposedly happen in certain cases, I've known too may farmers and ranchers and the like, and how they handle their animals, and the knowledge that for chickens - they will not lay when stressed, cows won't produce milk, other animals won't eat, etc if suffering - and these people depend on the welfare of their animals to make a living. They are very unlikely to abuse and mistreat on account. And there have been enough attempts at blackmail, falsification, and other such bs by groups wanting to 'prove' things are bad to make me rather skeptical when people toss some of that up.

Anyways.

(Image)

Damn you are badass, I don't think I can bring myself to eat something I have grown an attachment too unless it was for survival.

I would be sad for Herman, of course then Herman would die and my sadness would lie on deaf ears (More so than usual) but still.

Now I wanna hug a pig.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Nah. It isn't badass. It's simply understanding how things work in a farm environment, and learning where one's food comes from. It isn't as if someone told the itty bitty kids 'have fun with the pig, next week he'll be on your breakfast plate'. We cycled through Hermans. The continuity was what helped the littlest ones learn and adapt, when they were old enough to understand.

And when we were older, on one grandparent's farm, we helped with the cattle drives, and the spring run of castration, branding, tagging, innoculation, and horn-cutting on the little ones, and what one had to do if any got missed somehow along the way up to the open ranges for the summer. It ain't pretty. But it was necessary given the setup of things. And it was done as humanely as possible - not that the cows were appreciative of it, I'm sure.

That said, pigs are smarter than cows, and sheep - ffs those can be stupid beasts, I swear. They still are not human-equivalent on any level. Not even close. As adorable as those cute widdle pot-bellied guys are (and ye gods, they are.)

As I've noted - if someone has a personal issue with it, they're free to not partake. Or purchase leather, or any other animal-based or tested-upon product. Of which there are many, many, many. And far too many hypocrites out there screaming at others to 'stahp' while they stand their in their snakeskin boots, so to speak.

[Blazedtown]

(Image)

I enjoy fruits and veggies, and cereals and grains, and all those snifty little things. Frozen grapes? Outstanding. Sliced apples with chunky peanut butter? Damn fine snackings right there. My Kashi cereal to boot, with yogurt even? Sweet. Nothing quite like a good refreshing salad now and then. Don't get me started on my Belvitas or cinnamon apple rice cakes.

However.

I also enjoy a good medium-rare steak. Bacon. Chops. Sausage. Bacon. Tacos. Roast. Bacon. Chicken of all sorts. Turkey. Bacon. Those awesome spiral cut hams. Bacon. Game hens. Jerky. Bacon. Oh gods with the bacon. Cheddarwursts. Meat pies. Did I mention the bacon? Yeah. Meat-tastic. Nothing - and I mean nothing - not your tofu or veggieburgers or anything else cuts it, or tastes the same. In spite of claims to the contrary. It does not. Period.

I grew up with grandparent's farms. We always had a pig out there named Herman. As little children, we got to feed Herman. I have pics of me and grandpa with Herman. We'd play with Herman.

And we ate Herman. Same with the calves we'd bottle feed from the auctions. When it got closer to time, they'd go to grandpa's - and then later, we had a freezer stocked with beef for the rest of the year. Same with the chickens. It's part of farming. There was no waste, there was a purpose, and there was no abuse to it. They were all well-cared for, and not slaughtered horribly. And the adults intro'd us to the facts of that gently but truthfully. You don't like how all that works? Don't eat meat. But bah gawd, don't force others to adhere to your personal ethics and choices. Your rights end where mine begin.

While I do not, in any way support any abuses that do supposedly happen in certain cases, I've known too may farmers and ranchers and the like, and how they handle their animals, and the knowledge that for chickens - they will not lay when stressed, cows won't produce milk, other animals won't eat, etc if suffering - and these people depend on the welfare of their animals to make a living. They are very unlikely to abuse and mistreat on account. And there have been enough attempts at blackmail, falsification, and other such bs by groups wanting to 'prove' things are bad to make me rather skeptical when people toss some of that up.

Anyways.

(Image)

Damn you are badass, I don't think I can bring myself to eat something I have grown an attachment too unless it was for survival.

I would be sad for Herman, of course then Herman would die and my sadness would lie on deaf ears (More so than usual) but still.

Now I wanna hug a pig.

Not a good idea considering that pigs like to roll around a soupy mixture of mud and their own shit.

[Mormak]

Damn you are badass, I don't think I can bring myself to eat something I have grown an attachment too unless it was for survival.

I would be sad for Herman, of course then Herman would die and my sadness would lie on deaf ears (More so than usual) but still.

Now I wanna hug a pig.

Not a good idea considering that pigs like to roll around a soupy mixture of mud and their own shit.

Your spoiling the romantic imagery of non farmers

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Not a good idea considering that pigs like to roll around a soupy mixture of mud and their own shit.

That's actually a bit of a fallacy. Pigs aren't naturally filthy creatures. It's how many of them are kept that ends up being a problem. There are a lot of animals who use mud to keep flies and other pests off, as well as protect them from the sun. When pigs are kept in conditions that are one big muddy shitty mess, well, yeah. Pigs are gonna get muddy and shitty. It isn't like the meat itself is shit on account. We still shake hands even though we're aware everyone wipes their asses, neh? One simply hopes the person on the other end washed after.

[Blazedtown]

Not a good idea considering that pigs like to roll around a soupy mixture of mud and their own shit.

That's actually a bit of a fallacy. Pigs aren't naturally filthy creatures. It's how many of them are kept that ends up being a problem. There are a lot of animals who use mud to keep flies and other pests off, as well as protect them from the sun. When pigs are kept in conditions that are one big muddy shitty mess, well, yeah. Pigs are gonna get muddy and shitty. It isn't like the meat itself is shit on account. We still shake hands even though we're aware everyone wipes their asses, neh? One simply hopes the person on the other end washed after.

I love pork. I was playing into the old barnyard stereotype. Obviously there isn't much mud in a modern hog barn, and the shit is generally pumped in lagoons because otherwise the ammonia from their waste can be hazardous in a confined area like that.

[The 54th Squadron]

Yes, it is genocide. But you know what? I don't care, I still want my bacon, whether by pigs or children.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

That's actually a bit of a fallacy. Pigs aren't naturally filthy creatures. It's how many of them are kept that ends up being a problem. There are a lot of animals who use mud to keep flies and other pests off, as well as protect them from the sun. When pigs are kept in conditions that are one big muddy shitty mess, well, yeah. Pigs are gonna get muddy and shitty. It isn't like the meat itself is shit on account. We still shake hands even though we're aware everyone wipes their asses, neh? One simply hopes the person on the other end washed after.

I love pork. I was playing into the old barnyard stereotype. Obviously there isn't much mud in a modern hog barn, and the shit is generally pumped in lagoons because otherwise the ammonia from their waste can be hazardous in a confined area like that.

You should see the laws they have in place for all of that. I know they do for the chicken industry too, especially with how it can negatively affect the health of the animals. And the waste runoff etc - that's heavily monitored by the EPA, iirc - water quality, the works.

Mmm. Bacon. *blinks* Right then. Yes. I made this lovely pork roast, studded with cloves, done up with a nice white wine sauce and almonds that came out so tender ... om nom nom. Put it out for a medieval feast, even. Cooked it up several times after. Was always a huge hit.

[Upper America]

Not a good idea considering that pigs like to roll around a soupy mixture of mud and their own shit.

That's actually a bit of a fallacy. Pigs aren't naturally filthy creatures. It's how many of them are kept that ends up being a problem. There are a lot of animals who use mud to keep flies and other pests off, as well as protect them from the sun. When pigs are kept in conditions that are one big muddy shitty mess, well, yeah. Pigs are gonna get muddy and shitty. It isn't like the meat itself is shit on account. We still shake hands even though we're aware everyone wipes their asses, neh? One simply hopes the person on the other end washed after.

Apparently it's like sunscreen for them. They do it so they don't get burnt.