Iraqi PM declares "State of Emergency" as ISIS occupy Mosul

[Blakk Metal]

So target those other things then, starting with Saudi Arabia. Those assholes had it too good for too long.

Right, just targeting nations doesn't exactly solve things.... (2003 anyone?)

AS then you would also have to target Turkey, Iran, and US itself as well to really solve the interests. Oh and don't forget the Syrian war, the helped cause instability, and Israel. This isn't realistic to do, and selective targeting only makes things worse.

So would partitioning Iraq. The only you're gonna solve this bullshit once and for all is fixing the whole Middle East.

[Valaran]

Right, just targeting nations doesn't exactly solve things.... (2003 anyone?)

AS then you would also have to target Turkey, Iran, and US itself as well to really solve the interests. Oh and don't forget the Syrian war, the helped cause instability, and Israel. This isn't realistic to do, and selective targeting only makes things worse.

So would partitioning Iraq. The only you're gonna solve this bullshit once and for all is fixing the whole Middle East.

Partitioning Iraq isn't perfect but will ease ethnic tensions, as the groups don't have to compete for government (and their isn't a tyranny by majority). And solving the Middle East? That is practically impossible in the short term, from any standpoint. Where would one begin, and how?

[Aushanit]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

Probably not, while it can definetly hold the land for a long time I think after awhile they will start to loss ground. Of the Iraqi's can get competent leadership they will be a force to be reckoned with, the Revolutionary Guard are a powerful and well trained not to mention combat experienced. Same with the Kurdish Peshmerga who from what I can tell are fairing pretty well against ISIS. And I'm sure if there power grows nations like America, Turkey, and Israel would get involved although in varying capacities.

[Blakk Metal]

So would partitioning Iraq. The only you're gonna solve this bullshit once and for all is fixing the whole Middle East.

Partitioning Iraq isn't perfect but will ease ethnic tensions, as the groups don't have to compete for government (and their isn't a tyranny by majority)

There are many places of interest that won't be that easily divisible, like Baghdad and the oil reserves. Plus, they will still continue pulling Middle East bullshit, which won't end until the Middle East stops being so conducive to bullshit.

[Valaran]

Partitioning Iraq isn't perfect but will ease ethnic tensions, as the groups don't have to compete for government (and their isn't a tyranny by majority)

There are many places of interest that won't be that easily divisible, like Baghdad and the oil reserves. Plus, they will still continue pulling Middle East bullshit, which won't end until the Middle East stops being so conducive to bullshit.

Yes, but that won't happen anytime soon. We can divide Baghdad like Berlin, using the Germany example. Oil reserves are either Kurdish or in the Shia south, so they don't case too many problems.

[Densaner]

Mmm. Turkey is well armed. So is Jordan and other countries in the region. Let them sort it out. It's their part of the world after all.

[Blakk Metal]

There are many places of interest that won't be that easily divisible, like Baghdad and the oil reserves. Plus, they will still continue pulling Middle East bullshit, which won't end until the Middle East stops being so conducive to bullshit.

Yes, but that won't happen anytime soon. We can divide Baghdad like Berlin, using the Germany example. Oil reserves are either Kurdish or in the Shia south, so they don't case too many problems.

Until the Sunnis use religion as an excuse to steal it.

[Scholmeria]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

Because Iraq is Germany, Sunnis are Protestants, and Shi'ites are Catholics?

Germany has been a nation-state for a lot longer than Iraq has been. Germany has been through some pretty rough transitions that united the people - can Iraqis say the same? Etc etc etc.

Germany existed prior as the Holy Roman Empire so the German nation exist at least 500 years.

What are the Kurds in the German case?

The Kurds are pro-western and religious tolerant, in case they have freedom they could serve as a base from which freedom and democracy woul be spread in the region.

[Blasveck]

Mmm. Turkey is well armed. So is Jordan and other countries in the region. Let them sort it out. It's their part of the world after all.

You could said nearly anything else and it would've sounded less stupid than what you said here.

[Estado Paulista]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests.

Even if it were, Germany is a federation. That helps alleviate those conflicts.

[Densaner]

Mmm. Turkey is well armed. So is Jordan and other countries in the region. Let them sort it out. It's their part of the world after all.

You could said nearly anything else and it would've sounded less stupid than what you said here.

Really? So Turkey and Jordan are pacifists are they?

[Blasveck]

You could said nearly anything else and it would've sounded less stupid than what you said here.

Really? So Turkey and Jordan are pacifists are they?

No, the fact that you think that Jordan and Turkey should be the only ones to sort it out.

If that's not what you meant, then I rescind my previous comment and apologize for the hostility.

[Densaner]

Really? So Turkey and Jordan are pacifists are they?

No, the fact that you think that Jordan and Turkey should be the only ones to sort it out.

If that's not what you meant, then I rescind my previous comment and apologize for the hostility.

It is what I meant. Not just Turkey and Jordan. Iran is weighing in. No doubt Russia will have a view. Why should the West intervene when near neighbours won't lift a finger?

[Scholmeria]

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests.

Even if it were, Germany is a federation. That helps alleviate those conflicts.

It is a federation for different reason, also not to alleviate the religious conflict.

Germany was unite from smaller independent Kingdoms and Dukeships in 1871. The first German government decided to spare thoose structures within the new Empire (the new state was federative monarchy with subkingdoms as federative subjects).

You have had Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Prussia, Dukeship of Oldenburg with their ruling royal dynasties that recongnised the primacy of the German Emperor. The Federal nature of the German state is preserved until theese days.

Also, this all does have nothing to do with Iraq, so it is not good to compare it to Iraq. "Iraqis" are a social and colonial construct. They do not exist. It is the destiny of Iraq to be partitioned.

[Valaran]

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests.

Even if it were, Germany is a federation. That helps alleviate those conflicts.

Well there are many, many reasons why Iraq is not like Germany.

[Blasveck]

No, the fact that you think that Jordan and Turkey should be the only ones to sort it out.

If that's not what you meant, then I rescind my previous comment and apologize for the hostility.

It is what I meant. Not just Turkey and Jordan. Iran is weighing in. No doubt Russia will have a view. Why should the West intervene when near neighbours won't lift a finger?

Because if the US wants to have more non-monarchial allies in the Middle East besides Israel, it would be a good idea to assist them. And letting a terror group run around doing whatever the hell it wants isn't exactly a good thing either.

[Valaran]

It is what I meant. Not just Turkey and Jordan. Iran is weighing in. No doubt Russia will have a view. Why should the West intervene when near neighbours won't lift a finger?

Because if the US wants to have more non-monarchial allies in the Middle East besides Israel, it would be a good idea to assist them. And letting a terror group run around doing whatever the hell it wants isn't exactly a good thing either.

Yeah, terrorists ruin everyones' day.

[Gezi Park]

We speak the same language and other cultural stuff.

Ok, so they are basically etnic Turks living in Iraq. It is just weird why are they called "Turkmens" instead of Turks.


Anyway, Iraq is an artifical nation, it is nothing that a post-colonial creation which was created without the consulting of its people. So, the best would be a partition of Iraq.

They're not from Turkey. They're just Turkic, Turkmens are a Turkic group.

Yea, I agree with that.

[Valaran]

Because Iraq is Germany, Sunnis are Protestants, and Shi'ites are Catholics?

Germany has been a nation-state for a lot longer than Iraq has been. Germany has been through some pretty rough transitions that united the people - can Iraqis say the same? Etc etc etc.

Germany existed prior as the Holy Roman Empire so the German nation exist at least 500 years.

What are the Kurds in the German case?

The Kurds are pro-western and religious tolerant, in case they have freedom they could serve as a base from which freedom and democracy woul be spread in the region.

Yeah this comment sums up my views pretty much on the issue.

[Genivaria]

It is what I meant. Not just Turkey and Jordan. Iran is weighing in. No doubt Russia will have a view. Why should the West intervene when near neighbours won't lift a finger?

Because if the US wants to have more non-monarchial allies in the Middle East besides Israel, it would be a good idea to assist them. And letting a terror group run around doing whatever the hell it wants isn't exactly a good thing either.

Improving security for one state improves security for all in the region.

[Genivaria]

Even if it were, Germany is a federation. That helps alleviate those conflicts.

It is a federation for different reason, also not to alleviate the religious conflict.

Germany was unite from smaller independent Kingdoms and Dukeships in 1871. The first German government decided to spare thoose structures within the new Empire (the new state was federative monarchy with subkingdoms as federative subjects).

You have had Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Prussia, Dukeship of Oldenburg with their ruling royal dynasties that recongnised the primacy of the German Emperor. The Federal nature of the German state is preserved until theese days.

Also, this all does have nothing to do with Iraq, so it is not good to compare it to Iraq. "Iraqis" are a social and colonial construct. They do not exist. It is the destiny of Iraq to be partitioned.

You're not the only one who thinks so apparently.
From the Kurds pov.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-06-16/i ... -partition

[Valaran]

It is a federation for different reason, also not to alleviate the religious conflict.

Germany was unite from smaller independent Kingdoms and Dukeships in 1871. The first German government decided to spare thoose structures within the new Empire (the new state was federative monarchy with subkingdoms as federative subjects).

You have had Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Prussia, Dukeship of Oldenburg with their ruling royal dynasties that recongnised the primacy of the German Emperor. The Federal nature of the German state is preserved until theese days.

Also, this all does have nothing to do with Iraq, so it is not good to compare it to Iraq. "Iraqis" are a social and colonial construct. They do not exist. It is the destiny of Iraq to be partitioned.

You're not the only one who thinks so apparently.
From the Kurds pov.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-06-16/i ... -partition

Well they have been arguing for a proper Kurdistan for some time now, and of course they should get it.

[Genivaria]

You're not the only one who thinks so apparently.
From the Kurds pov.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-06-16/i ... -partition

Well they have been arguing for a proper Kurdistan for some time now, and of course they should get it.

If a democratic Kurdish nation were formed from the region know as Kurdistan in Iraq, Iran, and Syria then the US might have itself a real ally other then Israel.
Frankly I think the US and the West in general NEED a muslim majority ally.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

That's the propaganda they are pitching sure. But given that their methods seem to be simply conventional warfare we know full well they know full well that it's an impossible goal. Maybe we should just give them some land to play in and satisfy their lust for blood and than bomb them back to those borders if they try and expand further.

Great bombing them would cause even more civilian casualties causing the friends and relatives of the dead to seek to avenge the dead and join the Islamists even more!

A grave option, good for the short term, not for the long term, and given the reluctance of the Obama administration to do such things.

Why would it always be

America!

Why not the fucks that instigated America to fight in the hypothetical?

You're acting the the total population of the country are unwashed dumbasses who can't think critically enough to realize that poking the dangerous animal gets you and your friends hurt.

Sure some might join, they're idiots everywhere in the world, but I highly doubt the entire population will support the terrorist who hypothetically conquered their nation and instigated a war again with America.

Anyways I'd personally say that we should just get away...far far away.

Just leave the Middle East to itself and work on our own problems, a little bit of Isolationism won't hurt for a while.

If they try shit, bomb them, if Israel is under threat, just move the population to Texas, hey...maybe it will handle the Cartel too!

Just please...lets stay the fuck away from that place, the whole region is fucked imo.

[Scholmeria]

You're not the only one who thinks so apparently.
From the Kurds pov.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-06-16/i ... -partition

Well, there are a distinct nationality so it is understandable if they want to have an own state and let the Arabs to fight in their religious wars.

Now it is the best chance to declare independence and to use Kirkur as part of Kurdistan as their have a majority their. An independent Kurdistan would economically prosper due to oil and since they are secular they might be the next democratic country in the Middle East.