Iraqi PM declares "State of Emergency" as ISIS occupy Mosul

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Tal Afar has fallen.

How long until Baghdad falls?

Probably never, since I'm sure it's been filled with foreign mercenaries working for the American, European and Chinese oil firms at this point, as well as better-quality Iraqi troops.

[East Cloudsdale]

How long until Baghdad falls?

Probably never, since I'm sure it's been filled with foreign mercenaries working for the American, European and Chinese oil firms at this point, as well as better-quality Iraqi troops.

[Condunum]

We shoulnt get involved. If the Iraqis want an islamic state that's their problem. If we do decide to bomb , don't half-ass it. Make it Laos 2.0

Fuck it, go LeMay on their asses.

You couldn't possibly be more of a blind war hawk.

[Blakk Metal]

Fuck it, go LeMay on their asses.

You couldn't possibly be more of a blind war hawk.

That was a joke. They're not big enough to be worthy of a LeMaying.

[Gezi Park]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Turkmens

So, they have nothing with Turks of Turkey?

We speak the same language and other cultural stuff.

[Post-Keynesian Economics]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

[Geilinor]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

I don't think so. Other countries will get involved if ISIS is close to success.

[Grand Britannia]

How long until Baghdad falls?

Probably never, since I'm sure it's been filled with foreign mercenaries working for the American, European and Chinese oil firms

I stopped reading there.

[Valaran]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

No, they too have many large international enemies, a relatively small number of fighters and have just overstretched themselves. It won't be state by any normal sense of the word, or even a Taliban controlled Afghanistan. However, they may be able to eke out a desert area on the border, and around Raqqa, at least for a time. The borders of this area would be fluid though and any zone that they did control would be unlikely to become entrenched.

[Valaran]

Probably never, since I'm sure it's been filled with foreign mercenaries working for the American, European and Chinese oil firms

I stopped reading there.

I think we all did, to be honest.

[The New Sea Territory]

Cue new US intervention, plus several more years of US troops remaining in the area... >__>

If there is to be another intervention, I don't think there should be any more nation building. Instead, what the US needs to do is install a dictator that can keep Iraq under control. Despite being a cruel despot, Saddam Hussein was able to keep control and instill order. Sometimes a country needs an authoritarian ruler with an iron hand to stabilize it, if it shows no signs of reacting favorably towards a democratic tradition.

....and who will we put in charge? If we put a Sunni on, the Shiites become pissed, and vice versa. And the Kurds still want Kurdistan.

The problem here is that there needs to be a Sunni Iraq, Shiite Iraq and a Kurdistan to keep all these people apart and happy.

[Saiwania]

...and who will we put in charge? If we put a Sunni on, the Shiites become pissed, and vice versa. And the Kurds still want Kurdistan. The problem here is that there needs to be a Sunni Iraq, Shiite Iraq and a Kurdistan to keep all these people apart and happy.

I've since changed my position to favor partition, but basically my message then was that if Iraq had a harsh enough ruler; sectarian uprisings could be suppressed well before getting out of control. This was what Saddam accomplished. But I'll acknowledge that it is much less effort at this point to allow for three separate states.

[Purpelia]

If there is to be another intervention, I don't think there should be any more nation building. Instead, what the US needs to do is install a dictator that can keep Iraq under control. Despite being a cruel despot, Saddam Hussein was able to keep control and instill order. Sometimes a country needs an authoritarian ruler with an iron hand to stabilize it, if it shows no signs of reacting favorably towards a democratic tradition.

....and who will we put in charge? If we put a Sunni on, the Shiites become pissed, and vice versa. And the Kurds still want Kurdistan.

The problem here is that there needs to be a Sunni Iraq, Shiite Iraq and a Kurdistan to keep all these people apart and happy.

Split the country in three, exile the relevant populations to fill ethnically clean states and than set up dictatorships of their respective ethnicity. Iraq is just like most of African nations a badly thought out artificial post colonial construct.

[Grand Britannia]

If there is to be another intervention, I don't think there should be any more nation building. Instead, what the US needs to do is install a dictator that can keep Iraq under control. Despite being a cruel despot, Saddam Hussein was able to keep control and instill order. Sometimes a country needs an authoritarian ruler with an iron hand to stabilize it, if it shows no signs of reacting favorably towards a democratic tradition.

....and who will we put in charge? If we put a Sunni on, the Shiites become pissed, and vice versa. And the Kurds still want Kurdistan.

The problem here is that there needs to be a Sunni Iraq, Shiite Iraq and a Kurdistan to keep all these people apart and happy.

It's simple, we put a European in power.

[Saiwania]

Tal Afar is located in an area where Iraq's government doesn't have a strong presence anyways. The Peshmerga would be in a better position to attack that town if they were so inclined. Important thing is if Iraq can defend the areas surrounding the capital and actually rollback ISIL gains.

I don't think all would be lost if Baghdad fell, because there would still be plenty of room for maneuver between it and Basra. But to be sure, it would be the beginning of the end unless the tide was turned soon.

[Volnotova]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

It already has.

[Estado Paulista]

So, fortune tellers of NSG, do you all think the ISIS will succeed in establishing a new state?

To some extent, the areas occupied by ISIS already function as a state.

[Scholmeria]

So, they have nothing with Turks of Turkey?

We speak the same language and other cultural stuff.

Ok, so they are basically etnic Turks living in Iraq. It is just weird why are they called "Turkmens" instead of Turks.


Anyway, Iraq is an artifical nation, it is nothing that a post-colonial creation which was created without the consulting of its people. So, the best would be a partition of Iraq.

[Blakk Metal]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

[Valaran]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests, and didn't have a large scale invasion recently. Nor was it controlled by a dictator that massacred minorities. There isn't much of a comparison there.

In short, Germany's has a shared national identity, while Iraq doesn't.

[Distruzio]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

Because Iraq is Germany, Sunnis are Protestants, and Shi'ites are Catholics?

Germany has been a nation-state for a lot longer than Iraq has been. Germany has been through some pretty rough transitions that united the people - can Iraqis say the same? Etc etc etc.

[Rio Cana]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

Partition is not a waste of time. It is time to let the people of Iraq finally decide. Germany was made by Germans. Iraq was made by the UK.

[Valaran]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

Partition is not a waste of time. It is time to let the people of Iraq finally decide. Germany was made by Germans. Iraq was made by the UK.

Made by both the UK and France.

And Germany wasn't made by Germans, its a lot more complicated than that...

[Blakk Metal]

This talk of partition is a waste of time. Germany has a traditionally Catholic area and a traditionally Protestant area yet don't see them continuously fighting each other over religion.

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests, and didn't have a large scale invasion recently. Nor was it controlled by a dictator that massacred minorities. There isn't much of a comparison there.

So target those other things then, starting with Saudi Arabia. Those assholes had it too good for too long.

[Valaran]

But Germany is not torn apart by competing regional interests, and didn't have a large scale invasion recently. Nor was it controlled by a dictator that massacred minorities. There isn't much of a comparison there.

So target those other things then, starting with Saudi Arabia. Those assholes had it too good for too long.

Right, just targeting nations doesn't exactly solve things.... (2003 anyone?)

Then to stop all nearby influences you would also have to target Turkey, Iran, and US itself as well to really solve the competing interests. Oh and don't forget the Syrian war, which helped cause instability, and Israel. This isn't realistic to do, and selective targeting only makes things worse.