Iraqi PM declares "State of Emergency" as ISIS occupy Mosul

[United Marxist Nations]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they dug some into the sand to use as pillboxes, just in case their gains get reversed. Either model would be useful in that capacity. Or not even that, but just parking it in the middle of a street.

You're correct but the funny thing is those tactics match the same strategies every enemy of the US has used with their tanks since 1991. Every experienced American tanker has adapted to fighting tanks being used as pillboxes or insurgents. The even funnier thing, the tanks they have experience fighting are T-72's. If it came down to having to fight an M1A1, nobody knows it's weaknesses better than the men and women who get paid to use them on a daily basis for no less than multiple years.

Yes, but the US isn't involved; those tactics will still be very useful against the weakened Iraqi and Kurdish forces. Hell, even very recently IS-2's (circa 1945) were dug into places as fortifications.

[Dracoria]

My guess is the tanks will be stripped of useful parts (machineguns and radios, certainly) or used as supporting bunkers with what fuel can be offered for repositioning.

The Hummvees will probably be used in the same manner the Toyotas are, depending on variant. They're not terribly well-armored against anything but the smallest small arms and aren't as fast as the pickups though, so they won't add that much utility.

They also have radios though and, if the situation really requires it, they could siphon fuel from them, put it in gas-cans, and pack them in the technicals.

True that. Still, it makes them only about as useful as the tanks in the long run. Either way, much less scary than if they had the supply network to keep the tanks running on the front lines.

[United Marxist Nations]

Yes, but a single modern main battle tank can counter all of those technicals. In Somalia, Ethiopia absolutely crushed technicals with T-54/55's, which are certainly not modern.

Problem is portable rocket/missile systems. Which (in case of the RPG-7 for example) cost but a few hundred dollars.

From the money they seized from the Mosul central bank alone they can buy hundreds of thousands (well over a million in fact) of RPG-7s (and other rocket/missile systems) or well over tenthousand Technicals.

RPG-7's are less useful against modern MBT's than you might think.

[Mizrad]

My guess is the tanks will be stripped of useful parts (machineguns and radios, certainly) or used as supporting bunkers with what fuel can be offered for repositioning.

The Hummvees will probably be used in the same manner the Toyotas are, depending on variant. They're not terribly well-armored against anything but the smallest small arms and aren't as fast as the pickups though, so they won't add that much utility.

They also have radios though and, if the situation really requires it, they could siphon fuel from them, put it in gas-cans, and pack them in the technicals.

Also keep in mind that humvees are actually very useful vehicles. They may not go as fast as the technicals or be as light but you can use a HMMWV for damn near anything. On top of that I would consider it one of the greatest 4x4 vehicles of all time.

[Dracoria]

Yes, but a single modern main battle tank can counter all of those technicals. In Somalia, Ethiopia absolutely crushed technicals with T-54/55's, which are certainly not modern.

Problem is portable rocket/missile systems. Which (in case of the RPG-7 for example) cost but a few hundred dollars.

From the money they seized from the Mosul central bank alone they can buy hundreds of thousands (well over a million in fact) of RPG-7s (and other rocket/missile systems) or well over tenthousand Technicals.

Issue is, when you show up to a dealership with a fistful of money, weapons and vehicles don't just appear magically. They'll have to be imported, and ISIS seems to be running out of friends with that capability.

[Blakk Metal]

And what if members of Fatah, Hamas, and Hezbolllah were to witness ISIS free Iraq from Ebil Western Imperialism and join ISIS? How would that go down?

Hezbollah wouldn't because of Religion,

Error removed.

and Fatah and Hamas wouldn't want to be wiped off the earth if they sided with them. The only way they would is from Public pressure due to a full scale Israeli invasion

What would stop members of Fatah and Hamas from defecting? Their only allegiance is to Allah.

They don't need factories.

Thing is, ISILs tactics are assymetrical. You can buy hundreds of Toyota Hiluxes (and convert them for military use) for the cost of a single modern main battle tank.

I guess the helicopters will see recon use.

Yes, but a single modern main battle tank can counter all of those technicals. In Somalia, Ethiopia absolutely crushed technicals with T-54/55's, which are certainly not modern.

But most of the Somalis didn't have bazookas, as tribal warfare typically doesn't require anti-tank weaponry. If ISIS has any brains, they'll better prepare themselves for modern warfare.

[Mizrad]

You're correct but the funny thing is those tactics match the same strategies every enemy of the US has used with their tanks since 1991. Every experienced American tanker has adapted to fighting tanks being used as pillboxes or insurgents. The even funnier thing, the tanks they have experience fighting are T-72's. If it came down to having to fight an M1A1, nobody knows it's weaknesses better than the men and women who get paid to use them on a daily basis for no less than multiple years.

Yes, but the US isn't involved; those tactics will still be very useful against the weakened Iraqi and Kurdish forces. Hell, even very recently IS-2's (circa 1945) were dug into places as fortifications.

Good point but as I said before I'm just saying if they were to get involved. Even if they weren't though the Kurds are some damn good fighters and don't puss out as easy as the rest of Iraq does. On top of that they're also rolling with Abrams and T-72 tanks. Once they invade Jordan however, then they'll run into the issue of facing a force that's equally as dedicated as the Kurds but also far better equipped.

[United States of The One Percent]

Why not just ignore this?

Because of the potential consequences it would bring to the Middle East?

Screw that.

Either this has some serious consequences for the West in general and the US in particular or it does not. If it does, then we need to work with our allies (not alone as before) on some kind of solution that will at a minimum contain any consequences from this and, for example, ensure Iraq and the region doesn't become a breeding, training and camping ground for the kinds of people who like to fly passenger jetliners into office buildings.

If we (the US I mean) had a moral obligation to leave behind an Iraq capable of running its own affairs, and I believe we had, well, we've pretty much failed miserably at that. We certainly have no particular obligation to help the other nations of the region run their own affairs, except insofar as it is consistent with whatever we need to do to contain ISIS, the Peshmurga and whatever other opportunistic group comes out of the woodwork to take advantage of Iraqi incompetence.

On the other hand, if the situation isn't of the sort likely to have any serious consequences for us, then we need to leave it the hell alone. To the poor bloody Iraquis in this instance I say I'm sorry my nation screwed yours over, but you weren't the first and probably won't be the last.

[United Marxist Nations]

Yes, but the US isn't involved; those tactics will still be very useful against the weakened Iraqi and Kurdish forces. Hell, even very recently IS-2's (circa 1945) were dug into places as fortifications.

Good point but as I said before I'm just saying if they were to get involved. Even if they weren't though the Kurds are some damn good fighters and don't puss out as easy as the rest of Iraq does. On top of that they're also rolling with Abrams and T-72 tanks. Once they invade Jordan however, then they'll run into the issue of facing a force that's equally as dedicated as the Kurds but also far better equipped.

I don't think the Kurds have M1A1's do they? I knew they had T-72's though.

EDIT: From wiki, it looks like a lot of their equipment is stuff that was captured from the Saddam-era troops; doesn't look like any M1A1's.

[Mizrad]

Good point but as I said before I'm just saying if they were to get involved. Even if they weren't though the Kurds are some damn good fighters and don't puss out as easy as the rest of Iraq does. On top of that they're also rolling with Abrams and T-72 tanks. Once they invade Jordan however, then they'll run into the issue of facing a force that's equally as dedicated as the Kurds but also far better equipped.

I don't think the Kurds have M1A1's do they? I knew they had T-72's though.

Well I'm assuming they do since they're technically still under the jurisdiction of Iraq [Well most of Kurdistan at least] right? If not they at least have a pretty decent sized stock of T-72's if nothing else.

EDIT: I see your edit and raise you mine;
K den.

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't think the Kurds have M1A1's do they? I knew they had T-72's though.

Well I'm assuming they do since they're technically still under the jurisdiction of Iraq [Well most of Kurdistan at least] right? If not they at least have a pretty decent sized stock of T-72's if nothing else.

See edit. What we're talking about is the Peshmerga, which is a completely separate military. Kurdistan has been operating pretty much independently.

[Volnotova]

Yes, but a single modern main battle tank can counter all of those technicals. In Somalia, Ethiopia absolutely crushed technicals with T-54/55's, which are certainly not modern.

Obviously. You have a tank vs a pickup truck. It's like turning up to a pillow fight with a pistol.

Problem is portable rocket/missile systems. Which (in case of the RPG-7 for example) cost but a few hundred dollars.

From the money they seized from the Mosul central bank alone they can buy hundreds of thousands (well over a million in fact) of RPG-7s (and other rocket/missile systems) or well over tenthousand Technicals.

RPG-7's are less useful against modern MBT's than you might think.

RPG-7 might have been a bad example, though an RPG-29 (which costs roughly the same) is capable of damaging and destroying M1A2s.

And the thing is, you can buy tenthousands of RPG-29s for the price of a single main battle tank.

Problem is portable rocket/missile systems. Which (in case of the RPG-7 for example) cost but a few hundred dollars.

From the money they seized from the Mosul central bank alone they can buy hundreds of thousands (well over a million in fact) of RPG-7s (and other rocket/missile systems) or well over tenthousand Technicals.

Issue is, when you show up to a dealership with a fistful of money, weapons and vehicles don't just appear magically. They'll have to be imported, and ISIS seems to be running out of friends with that capability.

Not too sure about that. They seem to have some pretty advanced equipment (from the videos I have seen), including anti-air missiles.

If anything, I think manpower is going to become an issue in the next few days (though they have been bolstered by freed fighters and new requitement lately).

Also take into account they can basically buy a technical for every single one of their fighters atm.

[Kelmet]

You know you are extreme when Iran sends people to fight you.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I don't think the Kurds have M1A1's do they? I knew they had T-72's though.

Well I'm assuming they do since they're technically still under the jurisdiction of Iraq [Well most of Kurdistan at least] right? If not they at least have a pretty decent sized stock of T-72's if nothing else.

They had/have just a few...

[Volnotova]

You know you are extreme when Iran sends people to fight you.

And Al-Qaeda disowns you...

[United Marxist Nations]

Well I'm assuming they do since they're technically still under the jurisdiction of Iraq [Well most of Kurdistan at least] right? If not they at least have a pretty decent sized stock of T-72's if nothing else.

They had/have just a few...

That's the Iraqi Army, not Kurdish; you can tell by the flags.

[Paddy O Fernature]

They had/have just a few...

That's the Iraqi Army, not Kurdish; you can tell by the flags.

Hate to break it to you, but Kurds make do make up ING units, and thus have access to said equipment to steal re-purpose for their own needs.

[Saiwania]

RPG-7 might have been a bad example, though an RPG-29 is capable of damaging and destroying M1A2s.
And the thing is, you can buy tens of thousands of RPG-29s for the price of a single main battle tank.

What arms suppliers are going to sell to ISIL? I don't think Russia or Mexico is going to, which is where the RPG-29 was produced; and the only countries in the region where supplies of RPG-29s can be obtained from are Iran and Syria.

[Senkaku]

RPG-7 might have been a bad example, though an RPG-29 is capable of damaging and destroying M1A2s.
And the thing is, you can buy tens of thousands of RPG-29s for the price of a single main battle tank.

What arms suppliers are going to sell to ISIL? I don't think Russia or Mexico is going to, which is where the RPG-29 was produced; and the only countries in the region where supplies of RPG-29s can be obtained from are Iran and Syria.

You have a valid point, but stop calling it ISIL.

[Blakk Metal]

RPG-7 might have been a bad example, though an RPG-29 is capable of damaging and destroying M1A2s.
And the thing is, you can buy tens of thousands of RPG-29s for the price of a single main battle tank.

What arms suppliers are going to sell to ISIL? I don't think Russia or Mexico is going to, which is where the RPG-29 was produced;

There are numerous short sighted criminal organizations in Russia and Mexico, and ISIS could very well manufacture their own bazookas.

and the only countries in the region where supplies of RPG-29s can be obtained from are Iran and Syria.

They stand a good chance of taking Syria right now.

[United Marxist Nations]

That's the Iraqi Army, not Kurdish; you can tell by the flags.

Hate to break it to you, but Kurds make do make up ING units, and thus have access to said equipment to steal re-purpose for their own needs.

Think we're talking about two different things; I think you're talking about Kurds in the Iraqi Army, while I'm talking about the Peshmerga, which is the Kurdish military.

[Volnotova]

RPG-7 might have been a bad example, though an RPG-29 is capable of damaging and destroying M1A2s.
And the thing is, you can buy tens of thousands of RPG-29s for the price of a single main battle tank.

What arms suppliers are going to sell to ISIL? I don't think Russia or Mexico is going to, which is where the RPG-29 was produced; and the only countries in the region where supplies of RPG-29s can be obtained from are Iran and Syria.

I wonder if they might try to start producing the systems themselves. (Eventually at least)

There are also black market arms dealers (And with ISIL being loaded I can see them flocking to them).

[Volnotova]

What arms suppliers are going to sell to ISIL? I don't think Russia or Mexico is going to, which is where the RPG-29 was produced; and the only countries in the region where supplies of RPG-29s can be obtained from are Iran and Syria.

You have a valid point, but stop calling it ISIL.

Both are right (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant or Islamic State in Iraq and Syria).

In fact, I would say the first is the right one as they now also have cells in Jordan.

[Senkaku]

You have a valid point, but stop calling it ISIL.

Both are right (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant or Islamic State in Iraq and Syria).

In fact, I would say the first is the right one as they now also have cells in Jordan.

Now I feel like an idiot.

[Geilinor]

You have a valid point, but stop calling it ISIL.

Both are right (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant or Islamic State in Iraq and Syria).

In fact, I would say the first is the right one as they now also have cells in Jordan.

This^. Their objective is wider than just Iraq and Syria.