What are the limits of "Slut shaming?"

[Flyover]

Like I said before, if they're both equally knowledgeable their opinions are both equally valid. Somebody who is not gay will probably never experience being discriminated against by a homophobe, but that does NOT mean the straight person's opinions are less valuable. Besides, having sex =/= actually knowing anything about sex; or enough to be educated about it. People who have sex can easily have incorrect and backwards views on it, while somebody who hasn't had it can have the correct ones. Hopefully you won't say the wrong-but-experienced opinion is more valuable, and the right-but-virgin should consider the wrong opinion?

No, they really aren't.

Some knowledge has to be lived to be acquired.

The kinds of things The Flood was posting about sex were pretty much just speculation on his part that he was trying to pass of as fact, despite clearly not knowing what he was talking about.

*Sigh* Seeing as you're not refuting my examples or most of my arguments and instead are just restating the same things over and over, I think this conversation is over.

[Jumalariik]

Oh, sorry I was unclear, all but one of my friends are atheists and all of my atheist friends say anti-Christian things, usually mockingly, I don't really care that they do, I just realize that that is how atheists generally seem to be.

Your friends =/= even a remote sampling of every possible atheist opinion. People with like views tend to be friends, so just because every atheist (except one, who's existence proves you wrong anyways) you know are that way does not mean even 50% of atheist are that way.

I don't think that all atheists are that way, I just know that a good amount of them are that way, where I live, it seems that 90% are that way.

[Vettrera]

Is racial profiling fair?

Hell no. You don't choose to be a certain race, thus, no true generalizations can be accurate, since you choose to be atheist, people who make that choice can have many things in common.
I was wrong in saying that it would be ok to make a huge generalization about whites, however, it would be and warranted to dislike a group of people if one is willing to like people if they prove themselves to be likable.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

[Llamalandia]

Because you are selfishly using another person for personal gratification, in an unloving fashion.

I advise you learn what consent is.

Rape is not casual sex.

Well, it's possible to be sufficiently emotionally controlling and manipulative to presumably cause someone to consent they might not other wise consent to, without it being defined as rape. For instance college professors are generally prohibited by the rules of the institution from engaging in romantic or sexual relations given the power imbalance between student and teacher, even though no one would consider a professor taking advantage of his power to be a "rapist".

[Llamalandia]

Hell no. You don't choose to be a certain race, thus, no true generalizations can be accurate, since you choose to be atheist, people who make that choice can have many things in common.
I was wrong in saying that it would be ok to make a huge generalization about whites, however, it would be and warranted to dislike a group of people if one is willing to like people if they prove themselves to be likable.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Umm, you go to the wrong church? Most Christians aren't like that.

Edit: you may just need to find better friends and stop hanging around sexist homophobes that might help as well.

Edit 2: I like the way you say you "have Christian friends", it kinda sounds like when white people talk about their "black friends"

[Vettrera]

Your friends =/= even a remote sampling of every possible atheist opinion. People with like views tend to be friends, so just because every atheist (except one, who's existence proves you wrong anyways) you know are that way does not mean even 50% of atheist are that way.

I don't think that all atheists are that way, I just know that a good amount of them are that way, where I live, it seems that 90% are that way.

...the only difference between racial profiling and your religious generalizations are the consequences/impacts of doing so.
The first one harms others, the second only harms yourself.

[Vettrera]

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Umm, you go to the wrong church? Most Christians aren't like that.

Edit: you may just need to find better friends and stop hanging around sexist homophobes that might help as well.

Those weren't true examples....I was trying to make a point. I thought that was clear.
And actually, your response just proved my point that anecdotal generalizations suck.

[The Batorys]

No, they really aren't.

Some knowledge has to be lived to be acquired.

The kinds of things The Flood was posting about sex were pretty much just speculation on his part that he was trying to pass of as fact, despite clearly not knowing what he was talking about.

*Sigh* Seeing as you're not refuting my examples or most of my arguments and instead are just restating the same things over and over, I think this conversation is over.

Seeing as how you apparently think that someone's laughable, uninformed opinions (which The Flood's are) on an activity they've never participated in hold the same validity as someone else's intimate experiences with that same activity, I think we finally agree on the bolded.

[Jumalariik]

Hell no. You don't choose to be a certain race, thus, no true generalizations can be accurate, since you choose to be atheist, people who make that choice can have many things in common.
I was wrong in saying that it would be ok to make a huge generalization about whites, however, it would be and warranted to dislike a group of people if one is willing to like people if they prove themselves to be likable.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

It is not ideal that I think this way, however, in many ways, it is logical.

All of the liberals I know like whole foods,
That means that a good amount of liberals like Whole Foods.

The anarchists I know dress in black, a good amount of anarchists dress in black.

The people I know don't like punk rock, a good amount of people don't like punk rock.

The fish I see swim, a good amount of fish swim.

The atheists I know think Christianity is stupid, a good amount of atheists think that Christianity is stupid.

What's the problem with this thinking?
Nothing.

[Llamalandia]

Umm, you go to the wrong church? Most Christians aren't like that.

Edit: you may just need to find better friends and stop hanging around sexist homophobes that might help as well.

Those weren't true examples....I was trying to make a point. I thought that was clear.

You mean, about anecdotal evidence ok sure.

[Vettrera]

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

It is not ideal that I think this way, however, in many ways, it is logical.

All of the liberals I know like whole foods,
That means that a good amount of liberals like Whole Foods.

The anarchists I know dress in black, a good amount of anarchists dress in black.

The people I know don't like punk rock, a good amount of people don't like punk rock.

The fish I see swim, a good amount of fish swim.

The atheists I know think Christianity is stupid, a good amount of atheists think that Christianity is stupid.

What's the problem with this thinking?
Nothing.

The blacks I know commit crime. Let's stop Vettrera for no reason other than that he has a suspicious pigment.

[The Batorys]

I advise you learn what consent is.

Rape is not casual sex.

Well, it's possible to be sufficiently emotionally controlling and manipulative to presumably cause someone to consent they might not other wise consent to, without it being defined as rape. For instance college professors are generally prohibited by the rules of the institution from engaging in romantic or sexual relations given the power imbalance between student and teacher, even though no one would consider a professor taking advantage of his power to be a "rapist".

It's still not really consensual sexual activity if one person is basically coerced.

Though I can see how it would be a grey area. That would be unethical of said college professor.

To be honest, I've wanted to fuck some of my professors, but it would have been unethical and shitty for any of them to indulge that.

[Jumalariik]

I don't think that all atheists are that way, I just know that a good amount of them are that way, where I live, it seems that 90% are that way.

...the only difference between racial profiling and your religious generalizations are the consequences/impacts of doing so.
The first one harms others, the second only harms yourself.

No, being an atheist is a choice, being black/white/hispanic/asian is not, thus, more can be inferred by their atheism.

[The Batorys]

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Umm, you go to the wrong church? Most Christians aren't like that.

Edit: you may just need to find better friends and stop hanging around sexist homophobes that might help as well.

Edit 2: I like the way you say you "have Christian friends", it kinda sounds like when white people talk about their "black friends"

The post you're quoting is just an example.

The person posting it was illustrating how wrong that kind of thinking is, because that's the kind of thinking that Juma is applying to atheists.

[Jumalariik]

It is not ideal that I think this way, however, in many ways, it is logical.

All of the liberals I know like whole foods,
That means that a good amount of liberals like Whole Foods.

The anarchists I know dress in black, a good amount of anarchists dress in black.

The people I know don't like punk rock, a good amount of people don't like punk rock.

The fish I see swim, a good amount of fish swim.

The atheists I know think Christianity is stupid, a good amount of atheists think that Christianity is stupid.

What's the problem with this thinking?
Nothing.

The blacks I know commit crime. Let's stop Vettrera for no reason other than that he has a suspicious pigment.

All but 2 of my examples were choices, you did not chose your color, thus profiling it is obviously wrong.

[Vettrera]

...the only difference between racial profiling and your religious generalizations are the consequences/impacts of doing so.
The first one harms others, the second only harms yourself.

No, being an atheist is a choice, being black/white/hispanic/asian is not, thus, more can be inferred by their atheism.

Whether it's a choice or not makes no difference. This isn't fucking Google Play. You don't get to see "People That Act Like This Also Act Like This"

Explain in detail why the fact that it's a choice makes a difference...

[Vettrera]

The blacks I know commit crime. Let's stop Vettrera for no reason other than that he has a suspicious pigment.

All but 2 of my examples were choices, you did not chose your color, thus profiling it is obviously wrong.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Alot of the Christians I know seem to have an issue with Atheists. Therefore, I guess Christians aren't tolerant of other religions.
Are we there yet?

[Llamalandia]

No, being an atheist is a choice, being black/white/hispanic/asian is not, thus, more can be inferred by their atheism.

Whether it's a choice or not makes no difference. This isn't fucking Google Play. You don't get to see "People That Act Like This Also Act Like This"

Ok, more in reply to the question posed in your now deleted post about how it being a choice is relevant.

We can discriminate between people on the basis of the choices they make, but not on immutable (or damn near immutable) qualities like race sex national origin etc. Choices however are fair game. You choose to be an english major or chemistry major, thus a chemical company say, will be discriminating by hiring the chemistry major over the English major.

[Llamalandia]

All but 2 of my examples were choices, you did not chose your color, thus profiling it is obviously wrong.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Alot of the Christians I know seem to have an issue with Atheists. Therefore, I guess Christians aren't tolerant of other religions.
Are we there yet?

Some Christians are some Christian aren't, they tend to be more honest and upfront about it though. They either say, yeah, I got no problem with other beliefs, or no Christianity is the only true path.

It seems like often atheists claim to be open and tolerant but really they aren't.

[Jumalariik]

All but 2 of my examples were choices, you did not chose your color, thus profiling it is obviously wrong.

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Alot of the Christians I know seem to have an issue with Atheists. Therefore, I guess Christians aren't tolerant of other religions.
Are we there yet?

This is different.
Atheism is by nature opposed to Christianity. All I was saying is that atheists seem to have the tendency to be anti-Christian which is not such a great leap just looking at NSG for a few minutes, then living my daily life, it becomes more apparent. It could also be said that Christians have the tendency to be anti-gay and it would in many ways sadly be true.

[Vettrera]

Whether it's a choice or not makes no difference. This isn't fucking Google Play. You don't get to see "People That Act Like This Also Act Like This"

Ok, more in reply to the question posed in your now deleted post about how it being a choice is relevant.

We can discriminate between people on the basis of the choices they make, but not on immutable (or damn near immutable) qualities like race sex national origin etc. Choices however are fair game. You choose to be an english major or chemistry major, thus a chemical company say, will be discriminating by hiring the chemistry major over the English major.

Sorry, I wanted to merge it into an earlier post because I didn't want to clog the forums

Whether it's wrong or not isn't the point I'm making, we're all in agreement that it's wrong. I'm simply explaining that generalizations made based on small sample sizes are irrelevant and should not be counted as fact, and the only thing different about racial profiling is the fact that it has a tangible harm attatched to it. Look back to my Christian generalizations to see the problem. If he wants to make generalizations about Atheists, then I hope he sees the generalizations of Southern Baptists as fair and accurate. Except wait...he seemed to have a problem with generalizations (that weren't really generalizations) earlier in this thread

[Jumalariik]

Whether it's a choice or not makes no difference. This isn't fucking Google Play. You don't get to see "People That Act Like This Also Act Like This"

Ok, more in reply to the question posed in your now deleted post about how it being a choice is relevant.

We can discriminate between people on the basis of the choices they make, but not on immutable (or damn near immutable) qualities like race sex national origin etc. Choices however are fair game. You choose to be an english major or chemistry major, thus a chemical company say, will be discriminating by hiring the chemistry major over the English major.

I agree with you Llamal, I gotta go though.

I would not mind continuing this discussion Vettrera.

[Llamalandia]

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

It is not ideal that I think this way, however, in many ways, it is logical.

All of the liberals I know like whole foods,
That means that a good amount of liberals like Whole Foods.

The anarchists I know dress in black, a good amount of anarchists dress in black.

The people I know don't like punk rock, a good amount of people don't like punk rock.

The fish I see swim, a good amount of fish swim.

The atheists I know think Christianity is stupid, a good amount of atheists think that Christianity is stupid.

What's the problem with this thinking?
Nothing.

Well nothing per se, it's just that those all generalities that don't hold in all instances. (except maybe the fish one though even that I'm not sure on there may exist some sp which don't swim. )

The good amount caveat helps some, but still it's overly broad.

[Vettrera]

All of my Christian friends except one, hate gays. Therefore I can extrapolate this data and assume that almost every Christian is a homophobe.
See the problem there? No. Ok, let's try this again.

All of the male Christians I know except one feel superior to females. Therefore, I should be able to deduce that Christians basically are all sexists.
Do you see the problem now?

Alot of the Christians I know seem to have an issue with Atheists. Therefore, I guess Christians aren't tolerant of other religions.
Are we there yet?

(A) This is different.
(B) Atheism is by nature opposed to Christianity. All I was saying is that atheists seem to have the tendency to be anti-Christian which is not such a great leap just looking at NSG for a few minutes, then living my daily life, it becomes more apparent. (C) It could also be said that Christians have the tendency to be anti-gay and it would in many ways sadly be true.

A- How?
B- No, it actually isn't. Atheism wasn't created in response to Christianity. It's not Anti-Christian. It's the belief in the absence of a deity of ANY kind. Just like Christianity is the belief in God (and therefore the absence of any other deity). If atheism is directly opposed to Christianity, then Christianity must be directly opposed to all religions but Christianity...but atheism isn't opposed to Christianity in general anyway.
C- So you're okay with me operating under the assumption that you are a homophobe?

[Llamalandia]

Ok, more in reply to the question posed in your now deleted post about how it being a choice is relevant.

We can discriminate between people on the basis of the choices they make, but not on immutable (or damn near immutable) qualities like race sex national origin etc. Choices however are fair game. You choose to be an english major or chemistry major, thus a chemical company say, will be discriminating by hiring the chemistry major over the English major.

Sorry, I wanted to merge it into an earlier post because I didn't want to clog the forums

Whether it's wrong or not isn't the point I'm making, we're all in agreement that it's wrong. I'm simply explaining that generalizations made based on small sample sizes are irrelevant and should not be counted as fact, and the only thing different about racial profiling is the fact that it has a tangible harm attatched to it. Look back to my Christian generalizations to see the problem. If he wants to make generalizations about Atheists, then I hope he sees the generalizations of Southern Baptists as fair and accurate. Except wait...he seemed to have a problem with generalizations (that weren't really generalizations) earlier in this thread

Yes, and no. I mean, there is a certain place in debate for lived experience and even anecedotal evidence, umm yeah, it may or may not be here.

I mean, after all stereotypes at the ones that endure the best often have a good degree of real world correlation. That said umm yeah it's tough to balance a discussion of personal expierience vs statistical reality.