What are the limits of "Slut shaming?"

[The Batorys]

This doesn't contradict my post. Also, you enjoy sex more if your partner enjoys it too...
Oh god ....illicit pleasure, that's golden.

Ok, whatever you say ...after that Illicit pleasure thing I just can't take this conversation seriously. Sorry.
But you know, condoms are a thing.

Condoms are not 100% effective, and their use as an enabler of promiscuity makes them immoral when used for that purpose as well.

Why is promiscuity immoral?

Condoms are quite effective when used correctly. Effective enough to reduce the chances of an accident to lower than your chances of getting hit by a car.

[Gaelic Celtia]

Could you provide evidence for that claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

Well that proves human trafficking exists....but where's the statistics supporting your claim?

[Flyover]

Could you provide evidence for that claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

That doesn't say that most prostitutes are slaves. You clearly didn't even read that.

[Jumalariik]

According to many liberals, that makes you anti-woman.

Says the person that thinks Christianity is pro gender-equality....you have little reason to be commenting on the subject if you think that.

Talking about Christianity is like talking about Asia, Africa, Europe, poor people, white people, black people.
You realize that there are thousands of denominations?
At the baptist (everyone thinks of them as really right wing) church that I go to, there are female ministers, ushers etc. women are treated exactly equal to men, unlike in porn, something that you claim is not misogynist. I've never heard of people calling women at church pussies, whores etc. I have heard many atheists using that language.
By all means, make a sweeping generalization of a religion with more than 1 billion adherents and thousands of different iterations, all y is x for the win!

[Distruzio]

Yes, that is why it is mutually immoral, for both participants. Both are selfishly dehumanizing another human being for their sexual gratification.

My fucking someone has never reduced their humanity.

Unfortunately, mine has (at least in my eyes). On the flip side, there were several women wherein having relations with them made me see them as more human. It really depended on my state of mind (and soul) at the time.

[Distruzio]

Could you provide evidence for that claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

Umm.... thank you but... I don't think that says what you wanted it to say.

[The Batorys]

No, you don't, or you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.
Also, nice job ignoring everything else I've said, as if I never said them.

So you would claim that all faithful Christians don't know what they are talking about?

If we were talking about specific points of theology, no.

It has nothing to do with you being a Christian.

It has everything to do with you being a virgin, and the discussion being about sex.

There's no shame in being a virgin, nor is there any reason for pride in being so, but it does mean that in a discussion about sex, you have no relevant experience, and therefore your opinions are just speculation.

[Flyover]

So you would claim that all faithful Christians don't know what they are talking about?

If we were talking about specific points of theology, no.

It has nothing to do with you being a Christian.

It has everything to do with you being a virgin, and the discussion being about sex.

There's no shame in being a virgin, nor is there any reason for pride in being so, but it does mean that in a discussion about sex, you have no relevant experience, and therefore your opinions are just speculation.

Er. Not having sex does NOT mean you can't talk about it. That makes no sense and can only serve to kick people out of a very important debate. I've never been a victim of slut-shaming, does that mean I can't talk about it?

[The Batorys]

That is really counter-intuitive. Not only would you lose the respect of the teenagers but also you are promoting an unhealthy practice of self-denial.

It is completely healthy, to tell them anything else but what I said is unhealthy. The only teenagers who's respect you would lose for telling them to not act like an animal are delinquents.

Prove that it's delinquent to have sex.

Also, teens that are going to have sex are probably going to have sex, with or without a condom. All a condom means is that they'll be safer when they do so.

[Distruzio]

If we were talking about specific points of theology, no.

It has nothing to do with you being a Christian.

It has everything to do with you being a virgin, and the discussion being about sex.

There's no shame in being a virgin, nor is there any reason for pride in being so, but it does mean that in a discussion about sex, you have no relevant experience, and therefore your opinions are just speculation.

Er. Not having sex does NOT mean you can't talk about it. That makes no sense and can only serve to kick people out of a very important debate. I've never been a victim of slut-shaming, does that mean I can't talk about it?

I'm not gay and have never been persecuted as a homosexual. Should I not speak out against such treatment?

[Distruzio]

It is completely healthy, to tell them anything else but what I said is unhealthy. The only teenagers who's respect you would lose for telling them to not act like an animal are delinquents.

Prove that it's delinquent to have sex.

What's your standard of evidence? What evidence would you consider valid?

[Flyover]

Er. Not having sex does NOT mean you can't talk about it. That makes no sense and can only serve to kick people out of a very important debate. I've never been a victim of slut-shaming, does that mean I can't talk about it?

I'm not gay and have never been persecuted as a homosexual. Should I not speak out against such treatment?

No, you should. That was exactly my point. Not having experienced something doesn't mean you can't talk about it.

[The Batorys]

Gren is a faithful christian.

Actually, I believe Gren keeps the Old Gods, that or possibly the Faith of the Seven

Nope, funny, but Gren is a Christian.

Also... you read/watch Game of Thrones and you think it's immoral for people to have sex?

Parts of that are basically softcore porn.

[Distruzio]

I'm not gay and have never been persecuted as a homosexual. Should I not speak out against such treatment?

No, you should. That was exactly my point. Not having experienced something doesn't mean you can't talk about it.

Indeed. I was agreeing with you.

[Vettrera]

Says the person that thinks Christianity is pro gender-equality....you have little reason to be commenting on the subject if you think that.

Talking about Christianity is like talking about Asia, Africa, Europe, poor people, white people, black people.
(a)You realize that there are thousands of denominations?
(b)At the baptist (everyone thinks of them as really right wing) church that I go to, there are female ministers, ushers etc. women are treated exactly equal to men, unlike in porn, something that you claim is not misogynist.

(c) I've never heard of people calling women at church pussies, whores etc. I have heard many atheists using that language.
(d)By all means, make a sweeping generalization of a religion with more than 1 billion adherents and thousands of different iterations, all y is x for the win!

(a) Not my point
(b) I was raised baptist. At my church, ushering is a women's only activity, and it's not really a position of power so I don't see how that serves a point. The existence of female ministers also doesn't mean that the Holy Book doesn't call for women to be subordinate to men.
(c) People usually conduct themselves certain ways on church grounds and certain ways outside of church grounds...it has nothing to do with their religion, but etiquette concerning where they are. I am sure many Christians use those exact phrases (I've heard literally hundreds say it), just not in a church setting. Also, anectdotal evidence and your overgeneralizations don't mean shit. Refer to my post about being black yesterday
(d) I haven't made sweeping generalizations. You have. Actually you did so today and yesterday. And you once again missed my point. I didn't say CHRISTIANS were misogynistic. I said CHRISTIANITY was. The Bible, which you hold so near and dear to your heart and draw your moral arguments from has misogynistic and other negative beliefs written all the way through it. That's my point.
The Bible itself is misogynistic.

[Flyover]

No, you should. That was exactly my point. Not having experienced something doesn't mean you can't talk about it.

Indeed. I was agreeing with you.

Oh. Then that worked out well, didn't it? Being right is so much fun.

[The Batorys]

You truly DONT have any idea what you're talking about.
Learn what delinquency means. Because it aure as hell doesn't mean teens who engage in sex.

A delinquent is a minor who commits crimes or immoral actions, so yes, teens who engage in sex are delinquents.

You have yet to demonstrate how sex is immoral.

[The Batorys]

I advise you learn what consent is.

Rape is not casual sex.

Consider: The poster in question is in a repetitive loop and is stating his position in the broadest and most absolute manner possible. When challenged, for several pages, he simply restates the broader terms of his stance.

Someone truly vested in such an argument would have at the very least considered it slightly if only to justify a dogged adherence to it and would have, at some point, created at the very least some nuance to the way they express it.

Further, in the absolute closest he is able to come to what could be considered a support or defense for his position is to apply a bizarre caricature of the logic to arguments about evolution and young earth creationism, suggesting not only a familiarity with them but an acceptance to them. While it is entirely possible for a Christian super-moralist to also accept science as science and does not in and of itself denote someone who is having a laugh, the fact that such detail in one area while lacking in another, plus the increasing ridiculousness of various statements does lead one to a particular conclusion.

Taking that all into account: How much sincerity do you want to assume the poster has?

Little to none.

But I'm bored.

[The Batorys]

Except, its hardly "acting like an animal". And I'm not a delinquent.

I actually don't get that reference...

A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones reference, there is a character called Gren

But I must ask, how can you reconcile Christianity with the fact that you reject Christian morality? Surely any Christian must at least acknowledge their sins, rather then pretending they don't exist, or trying to justify any un-Christian action they partake in to absolve themselves of feeling guilt.

You also reject Christian morality, most likely.

Almost nobody strictly follows all of Old Testament Law.

[Vettrera]

I don't deny that I talk shit about atheists. I do so because all the atheists I know talk shit about Christianity.

OMG. That is so sad. I am so sorry. OMG. Because obviously your personal experiences are indicative of the entire population and you have a good enough sample size to generalize.

Just like I've had enough bad run-ins with people in my community making comments about how people of my color are ruining their city, decreasing their home values, are gangsters, hoodlums, and thugs, and how they don't want their kids sitting next to me in class. But of course, I don't go around assuming every white guy I meet is racist, and just won't like me because I'm black. But I guess we have different views on these sort of things.

This is what happened yesterday that I was referring to by the way.

[The Batorys]

Again, prove its inherently immoral.

The only way I could do so is to prove that the Catholic Church is the True Church; which I could do, but you would dismiss my evidence as biased or any number of other cop outs, so I will not. I've attempted it before, and I shall not attempt it again when all I am met with is scoffs and remarks of 'that's invalid because I said so, give me more sources that I can dismiss'.

Because there's nothing to back up the church/bible being the authority other than circular reasoning.

You'll have to do better than that. You can't just quote a book and say, when asked how it has any validity whatsoever, "because it's the word of god, and I know it's the word of god because it says so in it, and I know it's telling the truth because it's the word of god, and I know it's the word of god because it says so in it."

[The Flood]

Actually, I believe Gren keeps the Old Gods, that or possibly the Faith of the Seven

Nope, funny, but Gren is a Christian.

Also... you read/watch Game of Thrones and you think it's immoral for people to have sex?

Parts of that are basically softcore porn.

It's fantasy, I don't judge the characters on Christian morals because Christianity does not exist within the universe the books are set.

I do not enjoy the nude scenes on the show, but the actual good parts are good enough that I can tolerate those scenes.

[Jumalariik]

Talking about Christianity is like talking about Asia, Africa, Europe, poor people, white people, black people.
(a)You realize that there are thousands of denominations?
(b)At the baptist (everyone thinks of them as really right wing) church that I go to, there are female ministers, ushers etc. women are treated exactly equal to men, unlike in porn, something that you claim is not misogynist.

(c) I've never heard of people calling women at church pussies, whores etc. I have heard many atheists using that language.
(d)By all means, make a sweeping generalization of a religion with more than 1 billion adherents and thousands of different iterations, all y is x for the win!

(a) Not my point
(b) I was raised baptist. At my church, ushering is a women's only activity, and it's not really a position of power so I don't see how that serves a point. The existence of female ministers also doesn't mean that the Holy Book doesn't call for women to be subordinate to men.
(c) People usually conduct themselves certain ways on church grounds and certain ways outside of church grounds...it has nothing to do with their religion, but etiquette concerning where they are. I am sure many Christians use those exact phrases (I've heard literally hundreds say it), just not in a church setting. Also, anectdotal evidence and your overgeneralizations don't mean shit. Refer to my post about being black yesterday
(d) I haven't made sweeping generalizations. You have. Actually you did so today and yesterday. And you once again missed my point. I didn't say CHRISTIANS were misogynistic. I said CHRISTIANITY was.
The Bible itself is misogynistic.

a) You can't talk about Christianity, it's too broad a term, are you going to call liberal Christians misogynists? Oh wait no, that wouldn't help your argument.
b) Both men and women usher at my church. Yes it does, Saul directly greets females of importance in his letters. It's not anecdotal, at the moment, the church is experiencing a transitions, so there have been many ministers from many different churches, in fact, the minister of the first baptist church in the state is female. You were the one who made over-generalizations, not me. I never claimed that 1 thousand different denominations are the same on an issue.

c) The Bible condemns people like that. The Bible is not misogynistic, you could argue that it's sexist, however, it does not preach hate of women the way that porn that you are defending does.

[The Batorys]

You could try to do so using basic facts and logic. You don't have to appeal to the Catholic Church's authority.

It is impossible to definitively prove anything is immoral from a secular standpoint. If there is no God, then morality does not exist.

An argument can be made to lend credence to certain moral views from a secular standpoint, but none of them can be proven beyond any doubt. I am admittedly not very skilled at debating, and lack the tools to make such an argument effectively, however I know such arguments exist, because I've seen them, many times. It all makes sense within my mind, but I cannot figure a way to express my thoughts in a way that can be understood argumentatively.

Even in the absence of a god (and I am not an atheist, so please don't assume that I am; I just, apparently unlike many religious people, do not think it is relevant or productive to bring up my faith in every single situation as justification for every position), morality would still exists.

Because empathy still exists. The "golden rule" doesn't just exist in Christianity. You should be good to others for its own sake, and try to make people happy just because that is a good thing to do, not because you fear being spanked by some mystical sky daddy.

[Vettrera]

Again, prove its inherently immoral.

The only way I could do so is to prove that the Catholic Church is the True Church; which I could do, but you would dismiss my evidence as biased or any number of other cop outs, so I will not. I've attempted it before, and I shall not attempt it again when all I am met with is scoffs and remarks of 'that's invalid because I said so, give me more sources that I can dismiss'.

I don't think you know what a cop-out is.....
The fact is that there isn't definitive proof that any religion is the true religion, so therefore we can't assume that your version of morality is the pure form of morality. Then we also have to account for the fact that false translations, human error, and human corruption have changed the Bible so that it isn't in true form as well. The argument that you're right because your religion is right would basically have to insist upon itself to be correct.