If there is no God, is everything permissible?

[-Arabiyyah-]

God made us with morals. Not because we want to do something but we can't because of hell god made us this way and to insure it he made hell. He made his laws to comply with the orginal morals he gave us.

So wait, god made us to go to hell?

No

[The Remnants of Kobol]

God made us with morals. Not because we want to do something but we can't because of hell god made us this way and to insure it he made hell. He made his laws to comply with the orginal morals he gave us.

So wait, god made us to go to hell?

He's not the nicest guy. That was established in the Old Testament.

[Neutraligon]

What? Satan never made hell...

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

[The New Sea Territory]

What? Satan never made hell...

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Nonono. Satan was god's son who moved out when he got a lip piercing and a ponytail, and moved across the street to god's old house, which was converted into a pansexual strip club.

[4years]

Titan, actually.

And my victory was a forgone conclusion.

Titan AE? Yeah, that was much better then Prometheus.

*sighs*

Prometheus was the Titan of forethought and crafty counsel.

*mutters darkly*

[Lingang]

What? Satan never made hell...

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Satan does not reside in Hell

[Sun Wukong]

What? Satan never made hell...

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Realpolitik?

[Neutraligon]

So wait, god made us to go to hell?

No

That sounds like what you are saying. So can you try to type more clearly?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

What? Satan never made hell...

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

God created it as a place to punish people latter on, so that they may roast and toast.

[The New Sea Territory]

So wait, god made us to go to hell?

He's not the nicest guy. That was established in the Old Testament.

He played good cop, bad cop backwards. Apparently.

[Rio de Fuego]

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

He was a fallen angel

[Neutraligon]

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

God created it as a place to punish people latter on, so that they may roast and toast.

How do you prefer your humans, roasted or toasted?

[Quilavaland]

Now, obviously this is yet another riveting religious debate that will stay on topic, intellectually stimulate everyone, remain civilized and hurt no ones feelings.

With that subtle disclaimer behind us let's get to the meat of the question. Fyodor Dostoevsky's philosophical novel The Brothers Karamazov, gave the world the interesting aphorism, "If there is no God -then everything is permitted."

This is a morality discussion, and should be treated as such. Not a legal one and not a capability one.

Therefore, why should a man not rape a woman if he lusts for her--biology would have us do that. Why should a man not kill a coworker who threatens his job security--evolution has shown us this to be the case many times over.

Many people might say something akin to, it is for the preservation of society. But why preserve a society in which you have to control your 'natural' lust, or greed or aggression? Survival of the fittest, take what you can and screw the others.

It seems that everything we say is [morally] wrong (eg; killing gays/being gay, slavery, rape, porn, theft etc.) is a societal convention worth nothing more than what society as a whole thinks. But what if there were a society of 1,000 people--a moon colony, let's say--and they decided to lynch and cannibalize the hundredth member--would that heinous crime of the 99.9% be morally pious or would they simply be "their own culture, not barbaric, just different" or would objective right and wrong stand out in the face of the numbers and show that there is a standard that is of value, not because it is mathematical but because there is a Divine right to live?

In short, if we are just clouds of atoms acting by non-rational causation as science would tell us, why not do as you wish?

We evolved guilt and disgust, we are disgusted when we see people get harmed, we feel guilty after upsetting someone, this was favoured by evolution so there must be some benefit to it. Without a society for protection, we could easily run out of food or get picked off by predators, and we go insane without social contact. We are too flimsy to survive just doing what we want, we have to compromise and work together or all die.

[-Arabiyyah-]

God made us with morals. Not because we want to do something but we can't because of hell god made us this way and to insure it he made hell. He made his laws to comply with the orginal morals he gave us.

if God made us, and God know what we're going to do before we do it, why do we need this life? Why couldn't we just skip this whole process of dicking around and go straight to our destination?

A test is our life to find the momineen and his community of thoese who are faithful and shall serve him. And he gives us free will to see what we shall do.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

God created it as a place to punish people latter on, so that they may roast and toast.

How do you prefer your humans, roasted or toasted?

I'm a big fan of fried humans.

[Neutraligon]

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

He was a fallen angel

And supposedly god knew he would fall, so again why create Satan. Also according to Jewish tradition, Satan never fell.

[Sun Wukong]

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

He was a fallen angel

The first Biker Gang.

[Quilavaland]

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

He was a fallen angel

Yeah but God knows everything that will happen in advance, so he knew Satan would fall. If he didn't know he's not all-knowing or all-powerful.

[Neutraligon]

if God made us, and God know what we're going to do before we do it, why do we need this life? Why couldn't we just skip this whole process of dicking around and go straight to our destination?

A test is our life to find the momineen and his community of thoese who are faithful and shall serve him. And he gives us free will to see what we shall do.

But god supposedly already knows what we are going to do, so how is it a test?

[Rio de Fuego]

He was a fallen angel

And supposedly god knew he would fall, so again why create Satan. Also according to Jewish tradition, Satan never fell.

You can't question it, or you come back to why would he create us unless to watch us suffer

[The Remnants of Kobol]

He's not the nicest guy. That was established in the Old Testament.

He played good cop, bad cop backwards. Apparently.

Considering he got the third grade science wrong, he's not the brightest guy either.

[-Arabiyyah-]

No

That sounds like what you are saying. So can you try to type more clearly?

Yeah I'm sorry I'm saying just because there is god that isn't why we have morals it's because he gave all humans morals to follow and those who don't will suffer. Because they have lost there ways from god to lose morals to join Shaitan.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Now, obviously this is yet another riveting religious debate that will stay on topic, intellectually stimulate everyone, remain civilized and hurt no ones feelings.

With that subtle disclaimer behind us let's get to the meat of the question. Fyodor Dostoevsky's philosophical novel The Brothers Karamazov, gave the world the interesting aphorism, "If there is no God -then everything is permitted."

This is a morality discussion, and should be treated as such. Not a legal one and not a capability one.

Therefore, why should a man not rape a woman if he lusts for her--biology would have us do that. Why should a man not kill a coworker who threatens his job security--evolution has shown us this to be the case many times over.

Many people might say something akin to, it is for the preservation of society. But why preserve a society in which you have to control your 'natural' lust, or greed or aggression? Survival of the fittest, take what you can and screw the others.

It seems that everything we say is [morally] wrong (eg; killing gays/being gay, slavery, rape, porn, theft etc.) is a societal convention worth nothing more than what society as a whole thinks. But what if there were a society of 1,000 people--a moon colony, let's say--and they decided to lynch and cannibalize the hundredth member--would that heinous crime of the 99.9% be morally pious or would they simply be "their own culture, not barbaric, just different" or would objective right and wrong stand out in the face of the numbers and show that there is a standard that is of value, not because it is mathematical but because there is a Divine right to live?

In short, if we are just clouds of atoms acting by non-rational causation as science would tell us, why not do as you wish?

Is that the only thing that keeps you a decent person? Fear of God? Without that fear, you'd steal, rape and murder? Or are you an ethical person because it's the right thing to do?

[The New Sea Territory]

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

God created it as a place to punish people latter on, so that they may roast and toast.

No. Here is how hell works:

You open wild western style doors to enter a rundown gay saloon, and see satan and saddam hussein drinking sake at the bar. Hitler is snorting cocaine in the corner, and Stalin is reading Russian Playgirl Magaizine in the booth. You sit down with Robert Mugabe and Kim Jong-il, who recently went true a satanic marriage, after Mugabe divorced his dog.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Again not a theologian, but why would god create a kingdom for his natural enemy

Because they aren't natural enemies. I mean if they were, why would god create Satan in the first place?

It is part of his genius plan, see...first, he creates Satan, then he created people, then he watch 'em both burn.