Only Want to Date White Girls, is this Racist?

[Aurora Novus]

What was the point I missed in the quoted text?

I wasn't trying to say he wasn't saying that, nor did I not recognize the issue he raised. However, it's an issue that's petty to raise, as it's simply informal language to say "no one/everyone" when meaning "most" people. In addition, I reaffirmed several times that I meant most people in my posts.

Why?

Because if you define racism the way you do, yeah, dating only certain races is racist. But it's also not wrong, so to call it racist is entirely pointless, and only serves to muddy the term.

Racism as a term should be limited to explicitely harmful things. It shouldn't be haphazardly used to described any old form of discrimination that involves skin colour.

And I'm saying you aren't justified in being convinced yet. You can be suspicious, sure.

Very well.

No, his definition is essentially "To act or hold a distinction that is arbitrary, using race as the distinction, and supporting the distinction in a false manner" By such a definition seeking that black figure would not be racist, as you aren't using race in a manner that is a false justification.

What do you mean by "false justification"? Because he has literally said previously in the thread that any form of exclusionary behavior in dating when it comes to race is racist. That would be literally saying it's racist "because discrimination", and nothing more. He's defining racism in such a way that has nothing to do with oppression, harm, or anything other than simply liking one skin tone more than another, and consequently dating accordingly to your preferences.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What do you mean by "false justification"? Because he has literally said previously in the thread that any form of exclusionary behavior in dating when it comes to race is racist. That would be literally saying it's racist "because discrimination", and nothing more. He's defining racism in such a way that has nothing to do with oppression, harm, or anything other than simply liking one skin tone more than another, and consequently dating accordingly to your preferences.

No, that's not what I said.

What I said was that exclusionary behaviors don't have to be racist, but that they can be if you hold a rationale that is based upon arbitrary distinctions without a valid justification in regards to race. It's like you literally ignored the crux of my argument in whole.

[Aurora Novus]

Holding a race value doesn't make him a wrong person. It merely makes his preference built upon racist logic, but it doesn't make him a bad person.

The preference is racist if it is built upon racist logic. If the preference is not racist, it's not built upon racist logic. You can't have a "non-racist preference built upon racist logic". That makes no fucking sense.

Holding a race value when it comes to attraction is not built upon racist logic, because racist logic is not "I find/don't find X race attracive, therefore I will/won't date them". To define racism that way is a fucking dumbass way of defining it.

[Aurora Novus]

What I said was that exclusionary behaviors don't have to be racist, but that they can be if you hold a rationale that is based upon arbitrary distinctions without a valid justification in regards to race. It's like you literally ignored the crux of my argument in whole.

"I find X attractive/unnatrctive" is a valid justification, because everything about attraction is arbitrary and subjective. There need be no deeper reason for rejection than that.

You're trying to define race out of being a valid criteria, but you don't get to determine that. Attraction isn't some objective measure, like "how good can you drive a bus", or "is this person fit to vote". In those cases, race IS arbitrary and irrelevant. But when it comes to dating, when it comes to attraction, it's all fucking subjective. Therefore, race is entirely valid as a reason to reject someone. Provided the rejection is purely about physical attractiveness, and not based on any other false modifiers (such as "All memebrs of X race possess personality.behavioral traits A and B, therefore I reject them).

[Olthar]

Yes and no. It's almost certainly a result of a racially-centric upbringing, but it does not necessitate hatred or bigotry. I have no desire to date black women, and I can only imagine that's so because I was raised in an environment where the image of "beauty" did not include them. However, I have no ill will towards them and fully support their equality.

As racism disappears, interracial dating will naturally become more prevalent. It's not something we need to worry about. A lack of interracial attraction is merely one more symptom of the bigger problem.

Simply put, you couldn't be more wrong.

My parents, both white, divorced when I was young. My Dad dated a latina woman and an Asian woman, both were wonderful women but eventually he split with both. My mother dated a Spanish man, and a black guy, before getting remarried to my current step-dad earlier this year, who is white. Now, in my twenty-three years of life, I have never been overly attracted to any group other than white women. I spent about half of my life with my grandparents, on a cattle ranch. On that ranch, most of our workers were either black or hispanic and I loved each of those men dearly, they were like uncles. In particular Alan, an African American man who was kind of the foreman if you will. He even used to come to my football games while I was in highschool, though sadly he died of lung cancer before I started playing in college. On my mother's side, my younger brother who is developmentally disabled had a full time nanny, who was African American. I called her Aunt Becky, and she was like family as well.

Clearly I was not 'raised in an environment where the image of beauty did not include them' nor did I grow up in a 'racially centric' environment. You like what you like, period.

So, you grew up surrounded by all these black people whom you saw as family, and yet you wonder why you're not attracted to them?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Holding a race value doesn't make him a wrong person. It merely makes his preference built upon racist logic, but it doesn't make him a bad person.

The preference is racist if it is built upon racist logic. If the preference is not racist, it's not built upon racist logic. You can't have a "non-racist preference built upon racist logic". That makes no fucking sense.

Holding a race value when it comes to attraction is not built upon racist logic, because racist logic is not "I find/don't find X race attracive, therefore I will/won't date them". To define racism that way is a fucking dumbass way of defining it.

Racism, in and of itself, the entire crux of racism is "I don't have any X feeling for Y race or races, therefore I will not do Z action for them".

The preference is racist if it is based on racist logic, you're right; however, what I said is that it necessitates, by virtue of the word "racism" to be a preference based upon a racist concept. If your preference is not built upon racist logic then there's nothing to worry now is there?

[Aurora Novus]

Racism, in and of itself, the entire crux of racism is "I don't have any X feeling for Y race or races, therefore I will not do Z action for them".

That's not racism.

The preference is racist if it is based on racist logic, you're right; however, what I said is that it necessitates, by virtue of the word "racism" to be a preference based upon a racist concept. If your preference is not built upon racist logic then there's nothing to worry now is there?

The issue is that you are defining all racial preferences as being based on racist logic. Or at least, all racial preference where you do not at least hold to the possibility of dating races you find unatractive. Which is horseshit. And entitled.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

"I find X attractive/unnatrctive" is a valid justification, because everything about attraction is arbitrary and subjective. There need be no deeper reason for rejection than that.

You're trying to define race out of being a valid criteria, but you don't get to determine that. Attraction isn't some objective measure, like "how good can you drive a bus", or "is this person fit to vote". In those cases, race IS arbitrary and irrelevant. But when it comes to dating, when it comes to attraction, it's all fucking subjective. Therefore, race is entirely valid as a reason to reject someone. Provided the rejection is purely about physical attractiveness, and not based on any other false modifiers (such as "All memebrs of X race possess personality.behavioral traits A and B, therefore I reject them).

A simple "I find X attractive/unattractive" wasn't enough for me to date out of my own religion and race. I had to think deeply WHY did I hold these beliefs about people in general to come to the conclusion I was just putting bullshit distinctions in people.

See, there's a difference between you and me in how we think. You think your beliefs shouldn't be questioned by you, and that it is subjective. I believe in questioning my own beliefs and preferences and hold them under scrutiny to see if they are practical or not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Racism, in and of itself, the entire crux of racism is "I don't have any X feeling for Y race or races, therefore I will not do Z action for them".

That's not racism.

The preference is racist if it is based on racist logic, you're right; however, what I said is that it necessitates, by virtue of the word "racism" to be a preference based upon a racist concept. If your preference is not built upon racist logic then there's nothing to worry now is there?

The issue is that you are defining all racial preferences as being based on racist logic. Or at least, all racial preference where you do not at least hold to the possibility of dating races you find unatractive. Which is horseshit. And entitled.

Oh? Please enlighten me as to what racism is, then, because I am fucking certain that's what racism is when it comes down to it. "I will discriminate these niggers because they are inferior" is basically, literally using that formula to a t: "I don't have any feelings of equality for blacks, therefore I will not treat them equally", so it is a basic normative formula to determine what racism is.

And here's the thing: you don't know what fucking entitlement means.

[Aurora Novus]

A simple "I find X attractive/unattractive" wasn't enough for me to date out of my own religion and race. I had to think deeply WHY did I hold these beliefs about people in general to come to the conclusion I was just putting bullshit distinctions in people.

Yes. And? That's all attraction is, no matter what. Bullshit distinctions. It's all arbitrary and subjective.

See, there's a difference between you and me in how we think. You think your beliefs shouldn't be questioned by you, and that it is subjective. I believe in questioning my own beliefs and preferences and hold them under scrutiny to see if they are practical or not.

I don't know where you're getting that, I question my own beliefs all the time. The only difference is, when I reach the ultimate conclusion that it's all arbitrary nonsense, I don't freak out and try and find some source of non-existent stability. I accept that attraction is, by it's nature, arbitrary bullshit.

People like what they like. They may have reasons for it, concious or subconcious, but ultimately all that matters is whether or not they are okay with what they like, and whether or not what they like unjustly harms others. And sorry, but being rejected because your race doesn't fit someone's sense of attraction is not a fucking unjust harm, and to complain about it and call it racist is entitled whining.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A simple "I find X attractive/unattractive" wasn't enough for me to date out of my own religion and race. I had to think deeply WHY did I hold these beliefs about people in general to come to the conclusion I was just putting bullshit distinctions in people.

Yes. And? That's all attraction is, no matter what. Bullshit distinctions. It's all arbitrary and subjective.

See, there's a difference between you and me in how we think. You think your beliefs shouldn't be questioned by you, and that it is subjective. I believe in questioning my own beliefs and preferences and hold them under scrutiny to see if they are practical or not.

I don't lknow where you're getting that, I question my own beliefs all the time. the only difference is, when I reach the ultimate conclusion that it's all arbitrary nonsense, I don't freak out and try and find some source of non-existent stability. I accept that attraction is, by it's nature, arbitrary bullshit.

Seriously, take a clue. I have never argued for myself. I am arguing the root of the preference, not your fucking blatant bullshit attacks on my character. If you have nothing better to do than to put my character into question it's better that you concede to this argument because to be honest, debating with a child who makes cheap shots at every chance he gets is annoying.
People like what they like. They may have reason for it, concious or subconcious, but ultimately all that matters is whether or not they are okay with what they like, and whether or not what they like unjustly harms others. And sorry, but being rejected because your race doesn't fit someone's sense of attraction is not a fucking unjust harm, and to complain about it and call it racist is entitled whining.

Sorry, but you don't know what racism is then. You don't get to flip the tables on me using your bullshit definitions and then call it "entitled whining" - as far as I know I have not been rejected just because of my race, so thank fuck your logic that I am whining and feeling entitled is nothing but horseshit that only you think.

[Aurora Novus]

Oh? Please enlighten me as to what racism is, then, because I am fucking certain that's what racism is when it comes down to it.

Racism is the unjust treatment of someone or a group of people based upon their race.

It's not discrimination for/against someone or a people based upon their race, though discrimination is a symptom of racism. But it is not, itself, racist, and you can be discriminatory when it comes to race without being racist.

[Celestial Divinities]

If it is as innocent as "I'm only attracted to white women and only date people I find physically attractive and my preference is not me subconsciously demonstrating the racism ingrained in the society that I grew up in" then I guess it isn't. But don't you think that there's a chance that it's something more than that? It wouldn't make you a bad person. It would make you technically racist but everybody is a little bit racist. You have to remember that you are systematically excluding a huge, diverse group of people as romantic partners based on race.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh? Please enlighten me as to what racism is, then, because I am fucking certain that's what racism is when it comes down to it.

Racism is the unjust treatment of someone or a group of people based upon their race.

It's not discrimination for/against someone or a people based upon their race, though discrimination is a symptom of racism. But it is not, itself, racist, and you can be discriminatory when it comes to race without being racist.

What the fuck?! Sorry, but at this point you are not worth discussing with anymore.

[Aurora Novus]

Sorry, but you don't know what racism is then. You don't get to flip the tables on me using your bullshit definitions and then call it "entitled whining"

My bullshit definitions...coming from the guy who wants to characterize something harmless as racist. Yeah, okay.

It is entitled whinng. I'm sorry you can't accept reality.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sorry, but you don't know what racism is then. You don't get to flip the tables on me using your bullshit definitions and then call it "entitled whining"

My bullshit definitions...coming from the guy who wants to characterize something harmless as racist. Yeah, okay,

It is entitled whinng. I'm sorry you can't accept reality.

I'm sorry your logic is all sorts of fucked up. Please do study and learn what something is before talking about it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If it is as innocent as "I'm only attracted to white women and only date people I find physically attractive and my preference is not me subconsciously demonstrating the racism ingrained in the society that I grew up in" then I guess it isn't. But don't you think that there's a chance that it's something more than that? It wouldn't make you a bad person. It would make you technically racist but everybody is a little bit racist. You have to remember that you are systematically excluding a huge, diverse group of people as romantic partners based on race.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say better than I could.

[Seriong]

What was the point I missed in the quoted text?

I wasn't trying to say he wasn't saying that, nor did I not recognize the issue he raised. However, it's an issue that's petty to raise, as it's simply informal language to say "no one/everyone" when meaning "most" people. In addition, I reaffirmed several times that I meant most people in my posts.

You shouldn't use language in a manner that causes you to express an idea that while held by others, isn't held by you. It's a valid contention to criticize you for it.

Why?

Because if you define racism the way you do, yeah, dating only certain races is racist. But it's also not wrong, so to call it racist is entirely pointless, and only serves to muddy the term.

Racism as a term should be limited to explicitely harmful things. It shouldn't be haphazardly used to described any old form of discrimination that involves skin colour.

When asked why you hold a position, to restate your position is not helpful. What should motivate us to accept your definition of racism, that is the same as the caricature you created, yet has the addition of 'in a harmful manner?'

No, his definition is essentially "To act or hold a distinction that is arbitrary, using race as the distinction, and supporting the distinction in a false manner" By such a definition seeking that black figure would not be racist, as you aren't using race in a manner that is a false justification.

What do you mean by "false justification"? Because he has literally said previously in the thread that any form of exclusionary behavior in dating when it comes to race is racist. That would be literally saying it's racist "because discrimination", and nothing more. He's defining racism in such a way that has nothing to do with oppression, harm, or anything other than simply liking one skin tone more than another, and consequently dating accordingly to your preferences.

I probably would have been better served using the word 'invalid' instead of 'false.' Essentially, there are cases wherein race is a valid metric by which, in part, to judge the aptitude of someone. In those cases, the judgement wouldn't be racist, because race in that case was a valid justification for the treatment.
However, there are also cases wherein people use race as a justification where it is invalid to do so, such as not hiring a black person on as a teacher, because you believe their race indicative of them having a low intelligence.
In dating, he is saying that there is nothing intrinsic about races that should cause that to appear. Therefore, it is racist, as their race isn't a valid justification for the action.

[Seriong]

Simply put, you couldn't be more wrong.

My parents, both white, divorced when I was young. My Dad dated a latina woman and an Asian woman, both were wonderful women but eventually he split with both. My mother dated a Spanish man, and a black guy, before getting remarried to my current step-dad earlier this year, who is white. Now, in my twenty-three years of life, I have never been overly attracted to any group other than white women. I spent about half of my life with my grandparents, on a cattle ranch. On that ranch, most of our workers were either black or hispanic and I loved each of those men dearly, they were like uncles. In particular Alan, an African American man who was kind of the foreman if you will. He even used to come to my football games while I was in highschool, though sadly he died of lung cancer before I started playing in college. On my mother's side, my younger brother who is developmentally disabled had a full time nanny, who was African American. I called her Aunt Becky, and she was like family as well.

Clearly I was not 'raised in an environment where the image of beauty did not include them' nor did I grow up in a 'racially centric' environment. You like what you like, period.

So, you grew up surrounded by all these black people whom you saw as family, and yet you wonder why you're not attracted to them?

That's not a valid argument. It immediately gets turned on its head as he says he has been surrounded by, according to his story, people of all races that he saw as family, and yet he's still attracted to people.

[Getrektistan]

If it is as innocent as "I'm only attracted to white women and only date people I find physically attractive and my preference is not me subconsciously demonstrating the racism ingrained in the society that I grew up in" then I guess it isn't. But don't you think that there's a chance that it's something more than that? It wouldn't make you a bad person. It would make you technically racist but everybody is a little bit racist. You have to remember that you are systematically excluding a huge, diverse group of people as romantic partners based on race.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say better than I could.

He/She really seems to have a knack for that, honestly.

[Aurora Novus]

You shouldn't use language in a manner that causes you to express an idea that while held by others, isn't held by you. It's a valid contention to criticize you for it.

No, it isn't, for reasons I already expalined. (1) I already pointed out what I actually meant sveeral times prior, and (2) informal language is valid language.

When asked why you hold a position, to restate your position is not helpful. What should motivate us to accept your definition of racism, that is the same as the caricature you created, yet has the addition of 'in a harmful manner?'

I just explained why. Because not doing so muddies the term. It sloppy and doesn't make sense to use a term to describe both good and bad things. You should have terms to describe bad things that are independant of terms used to describe odd things.

Case in point, what's being discussed here is not racism. It's eccentrism.

I probably would have been better served using the word 'invalid' instead of 'false.' Essentially, there are cases wherein race is a valid metric by which, in part, to judge the aptitude of someone. In those cases, the judgement wouldn't be racist, because race in that case was a valid justification for the treatment.

Yes, that's what I thought you meant. In which case, race is valid when it comes to dating and physical attraction.

[Aurora Novus]

My bullshit definitions...coming from the guy who wants to characterize something harmless as racist. Yeah, okay,

It is entitled whinng. I'm sorry you can't accept reality.

I'm sorry your logic is all sorts of fucked up. Please do study and learn what something is before talking about it.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. Evidently, you don't.

Why on earth should eccentrism, why should pickiness when it comes to race be defined as racist? What benefit is there to doing so, other than to try and passively shame people into giving into your entitlement complex?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm sorry your logic is all sorts of fucked up. Please do study and learn what something is before talking about it.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. Evidently, you don't.

Why on earth should eccentrism, why should pickiness when it comes to race be defined as racist? What benefit is there to doing so, other than to try and passively shame people into giving into your entitlement complex?

Sorry, but you don't know what I'm talking about and I doubt you know what you're talking about either. So no, don't come and fucking patronize me when you yourself have reduced your argument so much that you yourself don't even understand it.

[Celestial Divinities]

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say better than I could.

He/She really seems to have a knack for that, honestly.

I am blushing.

[Celestial Divinities]

I'm sorry your logic is all sorts of fucked up. Please do study and learn what something is before talking about it.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. Evidently, you don't.

Why on earth should eccentrism, why should pickiness when it comes to race be defined as racist? What benefit is there to doing so, other than to try and passively shame people into giving into your entitlement complex?

Because it's likely not innocent "pickiness." It's not a matter of "I only like blondes" or "I only like smart girls/funny girls/sexy girls/young girls/older girls." It's a "pickiness" that is more likely than not the subconscious manifestation of growing up in a racist society and it is most certainly not harmless. Prejudices like these under the guise of a matter of preference or attraction just promote every day racism.