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Gun Control: Your Opinion

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Krazniastan
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Founded: Sep 16, 2009
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Postby Krazniastan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:37 pm

Neu California wrote:Why not background checks, or psychological evaluations?

Surely you don't want violent/sexual criminals or people who are mentally unstable to have guns?

The above as well as strict limitations on automatic/sniper rifles pretty much sums up my views. There is no real reason why anyone needs those. Not for hunting (unless you're ging for utter overkill) or self defense.


Because such 'tests' can be influenced by the grader, and depending on their personal beliefs can be used to deny/discriminate against certain people or groups.

As for the second question, what makes you think that if a person is intending to commit a violent act, denying them a gun won't stop them from just going and using a knife, a bat, or their bare hands? Do you think a firearm is inherently evil? That it possesses those who use it like a demon? Don't think so. The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

As for the latter part, you really should do more research. Your ignorance is showing. Since 1934, only 1 murder has been committed by a civilian owned, lawfully registered machine gun. And that was by a Police Officer who used a personally owned MAC10 to off an informant.
As for 'sniper' rifles, again do research. Because banning 'sniper rifles' would result in most of the shooting community laughing at you and simply changing nomenclature to get around the law.

Personally, I shoot iron sighted rifles at targets not much bigger than a human head at distances up to and including 1,200 yards. And I'm not a great shot by any stretch of the imagination. Would that be a 'sniper rifle' under your definition?
Everything this great country has was taken, won, preserved or cherished was provided by the rifle and the will to use it.

As for what stage comes next it's usually the "I've got several 5.56mm holes in me" stage. - Wallonochia

Americans and guns are like the British with tea. Its cultural. We don't expect you to like it, understand it, or accept it. We do, however, expect you to respect it.

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:38 pm

New BladeSlayer Land wrote:
[citation needed]

You have the internet, bro. Read up. The amount of information out there on this is astounding, and me trying to summarize it will just be a waste of everyones time.

I looked up the sources, and they indicate that your claim is incorrect. :)

Well that was easy...
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Marinetus
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
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Postby Marinetus » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:38 pm

Silver Falcon wrote:I don't see why anyone would need a handgun. It's not very useful for hunting purposes. It's great if you want to keep it concealed and shoot somebody though. A handgun ban seems alright to me.

Handguns are pretty much the least lethal firearm in the world (Compared to other 20-21st Century guns). They have (Usually) the smallest caliber round available, are almost always semi-automatic (As appose to fully-automatic).
Even if you do ban guns (Any type of guns), studies show that criminals will just get them anyways. Then what? The enemy has a firearm, how am I supposed to defend myself... with the law?
Criminals will get there hands on a gun no matter what, and it's those people who retrieve them legally that get punished from such laws.

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Silver Falcon
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Founded: Dec 23, 2009
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Postby Silver Falcon » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:38 pm

New BladeSlayer Land wrote:
Silver Falcon wrote:I don't see why anyone would need a handgun. It's not very useful for hunting purposes. It's great if you want to keep it concealed and shoot somebody though. A handgun ban seems alright to me.

To defend yourself from the criminals that can get illegal handguns?

Realistically, all that having a handgun will do is give you a false sense of security. If a criminal broke into your home and intended to murder you, he'd do it before you'd even have a chance to do anything about it. Mostly what carrying a handgun will do is increase the chance of it being stolen and getting in the wrong hands are being fired in an accident.

The priority should be helping law enforcement officers stamp out illegal firearm trafficking and use.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:38 pm

Third Spanish States wrote:Also, gun control helps criminals a lot unless we're talking of a Orwellian Police State here.

I don't think that's true in Europe?
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Brogavia
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Postby Brogavia » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:40 pm

F1-Insanity wrote:snip


Image spam does not help your arguement.
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New BladeSlayer Land
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Postby New BladeSlayer Land » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:40 pm

I don't think that's true in Europe?

Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.
Last edited by New BladeSlayer Land on Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Marinetus
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
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Postby Marinetus » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:41 pm

New BladeSlayer Land wrote:Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.

Ah yes, Britain. The perfect example of why gun-control laws fail.

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United Dependencies
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Postby United Dependencies » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Marinetus wrote:
New BladeSlayer Land wrote:Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.

Ah yes, Britain. The perfect example of why gun-control laws fail.

Source?
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

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Krazniastan
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Founded: Sep 16, 2009
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Postby Krazniastan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Silver Falcon wrote:I don't see why anyone would need a handgun. It's not very useful for hunting purposes. It's great if you want to keep it concealed and shoot somebody though. A handgun ban seems alright to me.


A .45 in your back pocket is a hell of a lot faster than a policeman 4 blocks away if you are being mugged, robbed, or raped. Guns don;t have morals, they are tools. The user is what determines how and when they are used. Evil men use them to kill, steal, and rape, while good men use them to defend themselves from the evil. A lot of people don't understand that, and it usually takes a horribly traumatic event for it to click and make sense. Please be aware, that while you may not trust yourself to carry, a lot of us do, and we carry every day with no issues.

(Ladies, I use the term 'men' here in the sense of men and women. So please no more telegrams calling me a sexist pig.)
Everything this great country has was taken, won, preserved or cherished was provided by the rifle and the will to use it.

As for what stage comes next it's usually the "I've got several 5.56mm holes in me" stage. - Wallonochia

Americans and guns are like the British with tea. Its cultural. We don't expect you to like it, understand it, or accept it. We do, however, expect you to respect it.

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Marinetus
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
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Postby Marinetus » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:44 pm

United Dependencies wrote:[...]
Source?

Find it yourself, I ain't your busboy.
You have Google, don't you?

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Uawc
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Founded: Oct 24, 2009
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Postby Uawc » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:45 pm

F1-Insanity wrote:Gubmint sez:

Image

Thank you. I do believe this is an important reason why gun control is fail.
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Krazniastan
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Founded: Sep 16, 2009
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Postby Krazniastan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:45 pm

United Dependencies wrote:
Marinetus wrote:
New BladeSlayer Land wrote:Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.

Ah yes, Britain. The perfect example of why gun-control laws fail.

Source?


British crime rates have climbed steadily since their draconian laws were passed. While in the US the numbers have been on a steady decline over the same period. No link cause My internets are teh suck, but the graphs are out there.
Everything this great country has was taken, won, preserved or cherished was provided by the rifle and the will to use it.

As for what stage comes next it's usually the "I've got several 5.56mm holes in me" stage. - Wallonochia

Americans and guns are like the British with tea. Its cultural. We don't expect you to like it, understand it, or accept it. We do, however, expect you to respect it.

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United Dependencies
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Founded: Oct 22, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby United Dependencies » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:45 pm

Krazniastan wrote:
Silver Falcon wrote:I don't see why anyone would need a handgun. It's not very useful for hunting purposes. It's great if you want to keep it concealed and shoot somebody though. A handgun ban seems alright to me.


A .45 in your back pocket is a hell of a lot faster than a policeman 4 blocks away if you are being mugged, robbed, or raped. Guns don;t have morals, they are tools. The user is what determines how and when they are used. Evil men use them to kill, steal, and rape, while good men use them to defend themselves from the evil. A lot of people don't understand that, and it usually takes a horribly traumatic event for it to click and make sense. Please be aware, that while you may not trust yourself to carry, a lot of us do, and we carry every day with no issues.

(Ladies, I use the term 'men' here in the sense of men and women. So please no more telegrams calling me a sexist pig.)

While I agree that we should provide people with a means to defend themselves I wonder how many people would actually be able to shoot someone if they had to.
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

This is Nationstates we're here to help

Are you a native or resident of North Carolina?

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Gravlen
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Founded: Jul 01, 2005
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:45 pm

United Dependencies wrote:
Marinetus wrote:Hell, if guns didn't exist, we would all be speaking German.

Why?

Because handguns invented all the other languages.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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New BladeSlayer Land
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Postby New BladeSlayer Land » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 pm

United Dependencies wrote:
Marinetus wrote:
New BladeSlayer Land wrote:Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.

Ah yes, Britain. The perfect example of why gun-control laws fail.

Source?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html

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Marinetus
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
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Postby Marinetus » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 pm

Because Hitler would have invaded the US with swords and sticks, then we'd all be fucked.

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Marinetus wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:[...]
Source?

Find it yourself, I ain't your busboy.
You have Google, don't you?

I googled it, and found that there were no crime at all in the UK.

Honest!
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Enadail
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Founded: Jun 02, 2009
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Postby Enadail » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

New BladeSlayer Land wrote:
Silver Falcon wrote:I don't see why anyone would need a handgun. It's not very useful for hunting purposes. It's great if you want to keep it concealed and shoot somebody though. A handgun ban seems alright to me.

To defend yourself from the criminals that can get illegal handguns?


While my idea on gun control have gone from virulently against to seeing some use for personal guns, I have to say this is the stupidest of the arguments against it... if someone has a gun, I should have a bigger gun to protect myself!

There is some valid backing to carrying a weapon. I'm still not sold on concealed weapons, or on "anyone who's 18 and with a non-violent history can have a gun", but to say the best way to protect yourself is to have something more dangerous then the POSSIBLE enemy is just ridiculous.

To claim that gun control is a cause of increased crime is also a false causation. Just because guns are controlled doesn't lead to increased crime, nor is gun control in any way related to illegal weapons. Whether guns are controlled or not, criminals will do their best to get weapons of their choosing. Saying we shouldn't control who gets guns because criminals can get them is equally foolhardy. Criminals also have access to a wide array of explosive and chemical weapons... should these also be legalized? I know that's a stretch on the point, but it only goes to show how silly a comment it is.

Lastly, if there were no guns, no, we wouldn't be speaking German. If there were no guns, heck, the North American continent would likely be still controlled by the natives.

New BladeSlayer Land wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:
Marinetus wrote:
New BladeSlayer Land wrote:Yep, it is. Look at Britain's violent crime rate.

Ah yes, Britain. The perfect example of why gun-control laws fail.

Source?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html


The internet game huh?

I cite you, NationMaster!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

At least they source their material, so one can judge if their material is worth listening to.

Lest I read wrong, the UK is far below the US. Not to mention... lets look at Columbia! Its a perfect example of why no gun-control laws fail.

See how I can switch that around to prove absolutely nothing while making an outrageous claim? Lets try backing up what we say if we expect anyone to listen, hm?
Last edited by Enadail on Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neu California
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Founded: Jul 12, 2009
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Postby Neu California » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Marinetus wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:[...]
Source?

Find it yourself, I ain't your busboy.
You have Google, don't you?

You make the claim, you back it up. Standard rule of the 'net

Feel free to ignore it if you don't want to be taken seriously
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Brogavia
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Postby Brogavia » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

United Dependencies wrote:While I agree that we should provide people with a means to defend themselves I wonder how many people would actually be able to shoot someone if they had to.


Criminals are for the most part, chickenshits. They pick people who look like they won't fight. You pull a gun, they tend to run.
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United Dependencies
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Founded: Oct 22, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby United Dependencies » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:49 pm

Marinetus wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:[...]
Source?

Find it yourself, I ain't your busboy.
You have Google, don't you?

When has it become ok to make a claim without proof and then tell me I have to find the source to back up your statement. You make the claim the burden of proof is on you.
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

This is Nationstates we're here to help

Are you a native or resident of North Carolina?

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Krazniastan
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Founded: Sep 16, 2009
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Postby Krazniastan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:49 pm

United Dependencies wrote:While I agree that we should provide people with a means to defend themselves I wonder how many people would actually be able to shoot someone if they had to.


Taking a life is psychologically one of the most traumatic things a healthy, normal mind will ever have to deal with. There really isn't much one can do except cultivate a survival type mindset, and train, train, train until the reaction and action are instinctual. If you can do that, the first time you actually consciously think about it is after the threat has been eliminated, and you are out of danger.
Everything this great country has was taken, won, preserved or cherished was provided by the rifle and the will to use it.

As for what stage comes next it's usually the "I've got several 5.56mm holes in me" stage. - Wallonochia

Americans and guns are like the British with tea. Its cultural. We don't expect you to like it, understand it, or accept it. We do, however, expect you to respect it.

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New BladeSlayer Land
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Posts: 52
Founded: Oct 04, 2009
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Postby New BladeSlayer Land » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:50 pm

Brogavia wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:While I agree that we should provide people with a means to defend themselves I wonder how many people would actually be able to shoot someone if they had to.


Criminals are for the most part, chickenshits. They pick people who look like they won't fight. You pull a gun, they tend to run.

92% of the time in 1995.

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Marinetus
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Marinetus » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:51 pm

Image
Link to a Website
Link to a Website
Here's a few, are you happy?
Last edited by Marinetus on Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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