should autism be cured?

[Des-Bal]

Well I'm just pointing out that autism can be helpful and harmful. My autism is harmful. Others also have it helpful. Others have it harmful.

Which is irrelevant. You CANNOT say without autism the world would stagnate or that autism has a net positive effect on the world without evidence to support that claim.

[Indira]

I can't see why we shouldn't cure it. Especially the low functioning type

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

In the point of personal opinion, how do you view your autism?

What do you mean?

Ok, do you see it as beneficial? Or harmful? Or both? I stress I'm referring to you, the poster, not anyone else.

[KASSRD]

Why don't we just cure neurotypicals, allowing the true master race to take over?

Insert Magneto voice here "They want to cure autism? WE ARE THE CURE! Let the master race take over and enslave the lesser brain types, so that we may take what is rightfully ours. Begin forming the army, Gairuvuu! It shall be a long, hard fight, but even with 99 to 1 odds we are so superior we will crush the inferior rats!

[Ethel mermania]

How would you define autism as?

I wouldn't presume to define it. I'm not criticizing the spectrum thinking at all. I'm pointing out that people are't used to that kind of looseness in medical terms. Interestingly enough, according to wikipedia there is some controversy whether Aspergers should be included in the autism spectrum. I personally would prefer syndromal autism/non-syndromal autism to LFA/HFA.

you wouldnt presume to define it?
a few people have, and here it is.

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html

[KASSRD]

What do you mean?

Ok, do you see it as beneficial? Or harmful? Or both? I stress I'm referring to you, the poster, not anyone else.

I see it beneficial. I am currently in Horizons for all classes and am in the top 5% of children for my grade. I am antisocial, but I like it that way and shudder in horror at the thought of having to be with other people to have fun. I even have a few friends, mostly ADHD and Autistic.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ok, do you see it as beneficial? Or harmful? Or both? I stress I'm referring to you, the poster, not anyone else.

I see it beneficial. I am currently in Horizons for all classes and am in the top 5% of children for my grade. I am antisocial, but I like it that way and shudder in horror at the thought of having to be with other people to have fun. I even have a few friends, mostly ADHD and Autistic.

Alright. That's fair.

[Gairvuu]

Very high functioning autistics are pretty indistinguishable from the normal person MOST of the time. I think it's more of a min max altering thing if you understand. Who cares if our min is so infinitely smaller if our max is bigger out of proportion!

[KASSRD]

Very high functioning autistics are pretty indistinguishable from the normal person MOST of the time. I think it's more of a min max altering thing if you understand. Who cares if our min is so infinitely smaller if our max is bigger out of proportion!

What? By the way, how many men have you recruited so far?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Very high functioning autistics are pretty indistinguishable from the normal person MOST of the time. I think it's more of a min max altering thing if you understand. Who cares if our min is so infinitely smaller if our max is bigger out of proportion!

This sounds like good material for a webcomic.

[Betoni]

I wouldn't presume to define it. I'm not criticizing the spectrum thinking at all. I'm pointing out that people are't used to that kind of looseness in medical terms. Interestingly enough, according to wikipedia there is some controversy whether Aspergers should be included in the autism spectrum. I personally would prefer syndromal autism/non-syndromal autism to LFA/HFA.

No, no, I'm not saying you're criticizing. I was interested because you also deal with children who are ASD and I just wondered about that. It's always good to hear from care providers too, rather than just Aspergers people. It's not that their opinion doesn't matter, but it's one sided.

I don't actually deal with children. They are all adults, most of them over 50-years-old. That's another thing people just assume, that autism is somehow more prevalent in children than in adults. That's not targeted at you specifically. I hope, and think, that they, the people working on it, find the specific causes of each "group" of autism and then we can actually have a clear defining line between each. While a spectrum is nice, there is a difference between the high and low point. Personal experiences does color our initial reaction to words. I for one, relate the word autism to low-functioning autism initially and I can see why such topics as this can produce some heated debate. So yeah, I guess I didn't answer that one at all.

[Gairvuu]

Very high functioning autistics are pretty indistinguishable from the normal person MOST of the time. I think it's more of a min max altering thing if you understand. Who cares if our min is so infinitely smaller if our max is bigger out of proportion!

What? By the way, how many men have you recruited so far?

I was aware I made no sense, and I have 5 autistics,2 of whom are metal heads, 4 of whom are video gamers and 3 of whom are coders. Our superpowers shall crush opposition!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No, no, I'm not saying you're criticizing. I was interested because you also deal with children who are ASD and I just wondered about that. It's always good to hear from care providers too, rather than just Aspergers people. It's not that their opinion doesn't matter, but it's one sided.

I don't actually deal with children. They are all adults, most of them over 50-years-old. That's another thing people just assume, that autism is somehow more prevalent in children than in adults. That's not targeted at you specifically. I hope, and think, that they, the people working on it, find the specific causes of each "group" of autism and then we can actually have a clear defining line between each. While a spectrum is nice, there is a difference between the high and low point. Personal experiences does color our initial reaction to words. I for one, relate the word autism to low-functioning autism initially and I can see why such topics as this can produce some heated debate. So yeah, I guess I didn't answer that one at all.

I stand corrected, I thought you dealt with children.

[Ethel mermania]

I wouldn't presume to define it. I'm not criticizing the spectrum thinking at all. I'm pointing out that people are't used to that kind of looseness in medical terms. Interestingly enough, according to wikipedia there is some controversy whether Aspergers should be included in the autism spectrum. I personally would prefer syndromal autism/non-syndromal autism to LFA/HFA.

That's is true. An ADHD kid will have almost the same symptoms, just severity that changes.with an autistic, it can be completely different. Many of us are unable to care for ourselves. At the same time, a huge percentage of the worlds most famous and important historical people were autistic.

either you dont know what autism is or you do not know what adhd is.

they present completely differently, adhd kids do not play in stereotypical manners. the dx for autism is as the link says. while kids with autism can have adhd symptoms, kids with adhd do not fit the criteria fo autism, (they can have one or two of the same symptoms) and the treatments and educational metholdologies are radically different

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html

[KASSRD]

What? By the way, how many men have you recruited so far?

I was aware I made no sense, and I have 5 autistics,2 of whom are metal heads, 4 of whom are video gamers and 3 of whom are coders. Our superpowers shall crush opposition!

Good, good. I have recruited several scientist that will be making high tech weapons far beyond the inferiors comprehension. I also have famous Autistic Bill Gates on our side, so we are good money wise.

[KASSRD]

That's is true. An ADHD kid will have almost the same symptoms, just severity that changes.with an autistic, it can be completely different. Many of us are unable to care for ourselves. At the same time, a huge percentage of the worlds most famous and important historical people were autistic.

either you dont know what autism is or you do not know what adhd is.

they present completely differently, adhd kids do not play in stereotypical manners. the dx for autism is as the link says. while kids with autism can have adhd symptoms, kids with adhd do not fit the criteria fo autism, (they can have one or two of the same symptoms) and the treatments and educational metholdologies are radically different

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-autism.html

Doesn't ADHD just make you hyper and have time perception differences. All I really know about it is from Percy Jackson, which isn't the best place to get info.

[Meryuma]

Because like it or not, Autism is still a fucking disorder. Curing Autism, is not the same as eugenics, or euthenasia, that is the dumbest thin I've heard.

It isn't Nazi-style eugenics but it would still be a eugenics program. The definition of eugenics is the use of controlled/selective breeding in humans to weed out traits viewed as undesirable. It sounded like you were suggesting that we screen for autism in the womb and then abort any baby which displays symptoms, which is a classic example of eugenics. If this is not the cure you're proposing, please explain your actual position.

I also heard that Autism Speaks funds a disciplinary camp that tries to use physical force to stop autistic kids from behaving in an autistic manner. They pull some vile shit. One of the most loathsome charities I'm aware of, alongside the Salvation Army.

I'm curious, what makes the Salvation Army stand out? There is its homophobia, but that's applicable to most other conservative religions.

IIRC they threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York if gay marriage was legalized and there was also a high-ranking Salvation Army member in Australia who implied that homosexuality deserves the death penalty.

The thing is I have actually harmful conditions, both physical and mental. I know the difference. You don't.

"Neurotypical" is the clinically-acknowledged term for a non-autistic person. The fact that you treat it as some political insult shows that you aren't very familiar with autism. Also, I didn't say you don't view me as a person, I said you act like I'm not a whole person, i.e. that I'm broken or incomplete because of my autism and need to restored. This was a direct response to your claim that autism interferes with "who I really am".

1. Know the difference between what? You didn't offer a contrast. If you meant to reference the difference between mental and physical conditions, I am well acquainted with the difference. They are quite profound and abundant in my line of work.

2. Just because it's a clinical word, doesn't mean it isn't rhetoric.

3. You, in the most strictest technical sense, are. Just as I'm broken with CAPD and clincically induced depression. You've been fortunate to live a compete and happy life, and to accept yourself as you are. And I'm glad. Just as I've coped and overcome my brokenness. Being "broken" has nothing to do with you're wholeness as a person and as I said before any "fix" must strictly be voluntary.

So it's easier to turn to eugenics than to learn to understand and adapt to autistic people? If parents eliminated the disorder, I wouldn't exist. You can see why that scares me.

Curing is not the same as Eugenics. In Eugenics you destroy life to eradicate a trait. Here we would correct life to eradicate a trait.

If there had been a cure you would still exist. You'd experience the world differently, but you'd still be you. One's existence is not predicated on how they experience the Universe, only that they do at all.

1. I offered a contrast between my OCD, which I view quite negatively, and my autism, which I do not. I have both conditions and do not consider them comparable.
2. And rhetoric is not inherently bad. In fact, it is part of the the Trivium, which was the foundation of a classical education. My point was that your rhetoric was faulty; it distorts the truth.
3. I'm sorry that you have had to suffer because of your disorders but you shouldn't project that onto others and act as if everything considered a disorder leads to a similar experience to yours. High-functioning autism is completely different from depression, and I can tell you firsthand it's also completely different situation than anxiety disorders such as OCD (though many autistics also have anxiety disorders). The message I'm picking up from your posts here is that it's wrong for me to be comfortable and proud of myself and if I could only view the situation objectively I wouldn't view myself positively. I don't need that and I refuse to buy into it.

What kind of cure do you propose where the autistic person still lives? Usually the proposed solution seems to be a eugenic strategy, as I've mentioned earlier.

Well? It kind of is about them. They would be calling the shots about the "cure"

Besides there is nothing patronizing about it. Just like it's not a badge of honor.

Why would the parents have to be the ones making decisions about the cure? Many autistic people can communicate for themselves, and many parents and other authority figures misunderstand and mistreat their autistic children.

Also, I find the focus on victimization from major pro-cure organizations very patronizing and especially the way they make it all about the parents, etc and how much of a burden it supposedly is to have autistic people around. I know being autistic doesn't make you superior or anything (I've called out people on this thread who have that attitude several times) but that doesn't mean I want to be treated as some kind of tragic patient bringing hardship to all around me.

I have Aspergers and I am perfect. My Aspergers (along with other disorders) make me who I am, and make me the best person ever.

How dare people threaten to kill me! Curing me is just as bad as murdering me, since it kills me and replaces me with a different mind in my body.

I can't tell if this a strawman attempt at satire or if you're just being really immature.

Now, for those with low-functioning autism, I have to say that maybe an amelioration of that condition might be healthy for them. But don't make them into allists.

Kinda what I've been leaning towards as well. Perhaps we should be focusing on ways to help low-functioning people become more functional, rather than this all-or-nothing thing based on victimhood.

"Cured"? I'm sorry, but when I heard that, I shuddered. Cured really is not a good word to use, here. It makes people sound like freaks with some zombie disorder that need to be fixed because there is something horribly wrong with them. I suspect that I'm somewhere on the spectrum, and if I am, I do not wish to be cured. Social interaction is awkward and confusing, but it's part of a person's character. If they can't function in society and will never do anything on their own, yes, they should have access to treatment. However, autism is not something you can look at and say "Oh... how odd... that person is different, there must be something wrong, let's fix them." It's not rabies. It's not the plague. Curing it would be like looking at yourself and deciding that you wanted to remove a part of your character. I know that I would not change anything about myself (ever) because it is who I am, and that is something I want to stay with me for the rest of my life. If you can't keep yourself, is there anything you can keep?

1. If you have not been diagnosed with a disorder don't present yourself as having it.
2. Yes. Cured. You cure disorders.

You seem to think that if you say the word "disorder" enough it becomes an argument.

The real experts on autism are those that have spent their lives studying it, many of whom are not autistic.

Except autism research seems to be in a pretty early stage as a field, seeing as a complete hack like Simon Baron-Cohen can be regarded as an expert.

\/ This

Autism should definitely cured. It is objectively worse to be autistic than to not be autistic. As for whether parents should have a say in it... Well, ideally the sort of person who wouldn't allow someone to cure their child's horrible, debilitating disease wouldn't be allowed to be a parent in the first place.

Except as a person who has both actually debilitating conditions that I've been hospitalized for (OCD & Crohn's) as well as high-functioning autism I find it utterly wretched to call the entire autism spectrum horrible & debilitating.

If a cure is found, we should put all of autism's victims through it. We should disregard what the parent wants as they will use autism as an excuse to keep their children indefinatly. We should let the sufferers have a chance at a healthy lifestyle with genuine hope and happiness.

Are you the government from A Clockwork Orange?

Given that some people are trying to make "headmates" a hip thing, I'm not entirely fine with people trying to make mental conditions "cool" and have people ruin their lives and that of others just to be a special snowflake. However, I'm not for forcing people who are perfectly fine into doing things they don't want to do.

That's more about long-standing romanticization of mental illness as tragically beautiful/edgy/mysterious. See also the people elsewhere on Tumblr glamorizing depression & anorexia, the occasional people on NSG who brag about being sociopaths, etc.

People with High functioning Autism ( Asbergers Syndrome) are fine.

People with Low functioning Autism must be Cured!

I'm just going to point out though I agree with you slightly the people with low functioning autism should be the main focus but we should cure high functioning autism as well and most of them are not fine.

Do you find it morally righteous to change the fundamental personality of a sapient human capable of living independently against their will?

I have Asbergers and I am fine with it.

Yes but some people and by some people I mean a lot of people have Asbergers such as my self and HATE it they want it gone and some people are most deffiently not fine with it they can never make friends or socially interact and all of that jazz. I understand most people can live with it but some people cant
But I'm somewhat living with it

How old are you? I suffered the most in elementary school but I got much better. No point in giving up. You can make friends, hang out in groups, start relationships etc as a person with Asperger's. We've definitely struggled, but me and my brother are very socially comfortable now. You might not be there yet, but it doesn't mean you can't get there.

creepy flag pic.

yes parents should be able to choose for their children. yes autism should be treated. yes there are some children with autism so mild that a parent might be well advised that the treatment might be more problematical than the syndrome.

adults should choose for themselves.

no autism isn't a lifestyle.

Should a parent of a teenager with high-functioning autism be allowed to hypothetically cure their child against their will?

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

Perfectly expressed. Great job.

[Geilinor]

I was aware I made no sense, and I have 5 autistics,2 of whom are metal heads, 4 of whom are video gamers and 3 of whom are coders. Our superpowers shall crush opposition!

Good, good. I have recruited several scientist that will be making high tech weapons far beyond the inferiors comprehension. I also have famous Autistic Bill Gates on our side, so we are good money wise.

Bill Gates was never diagnosed with Asperger's, some people just add him to the list based on reported personality traits.

[Des-Bal]

You seem to think that if you say the word "disorder" enough it becomes an argument.

Nope. Just hoping you'll eventually understand it.

[Gairvuu]

Good, good. I have recruited several scientist that will be making high tech weapons far beyond the inferiors comprehension. I also have famous Autistic Bill Gates on our side, so we are good money wise.

Bill Gates was never diagnosed with Asperger's, some people just add him to the list based on reported personality traits.

WAS? He's still alive.

[KASSRD]

You seem to think that if you say the word "disorder" enough it becomes an argument.

Nope. Just hoping you'll eventually understand it.

We understand we are classified as a disorder we just dot like to be called that. I prefer "on the spectrum". I also think there should be a way to call you type of brain like race or gender. Neuro-type, anyone?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Bill Gates was never diagnosed with Asperger's, some people just add him to the list based on reported personality traits.

WAS? He's still alive.

Was refers to the diagnose. Gates is indeed alive.

[Gairvuu]

You seem to think that if you say the word "disorder" enough it becomes an argument.

Nope. Just hoping you'll eventually understand it.

Here's a mind duck (intentional) for you, what if we (I) are (am) only suffering from "disorder" because most people are not us (me)?

[Geilinor]

Bill Gates was never diagnosed with Asperger's, some people just add him to the list based on reported personality traits.

WAS? He's still alive.

I mean he was never diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder. http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/the-benefits-of-aspergers-syndrome/

Lately authors are adding Bill Gates to the list of famous Aspies because of his lack of social skills, inability to make eye contact and tendency to rock back and forth coupled with his obsession with technology.

[Gairvuu]

WAS? He's still alive.

Was refers to the diagnose. Gates is indeed alive.

Still wrong tense, it should have been Bill gates HAS never BEEN diagnosed with Aspergers.