should autism be cured?

[Des-Bal]

Yes it is. Go read up on what you're discussing.

Pretend that's the issue. It's easier than carrying on an actual discussion.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Yes it is. Go read up on what you're discussing.

Pretend that's the issue. It's easier than carrying on an actual discussion.

I'm lost but what exactly is not true?

[Des-Bal]

How is it not?

There is absolutely no reason to believe that in the absence of aspergers syndrome society would stagnate or even that aspergers has a net positive effect.

[The Remnants of Kobol]

I'm not sure what exactly there is to cure. It's not like they have a defined problem like they can't walk or are blind.

I'm also not sure what else there is for discussion. The people with autism are mostly fully aware of their situation and capable of deciding for themselves whether or not they see it as a curse or a blessing.

Some are some aren't, some are a drain on govt funds and thus the decision is no longer theirs to make.

You realize "autistic" isn't the same as "mentally retarded" right? There are very few people with autism that require any more assistance than simply living with someone else. But yes, for those few that are completely dependent on someone else, it should be that person's choice.

But it'll be a cold day in Hell when I trust the average tax payer to make medical decisions for other people...

[KASSRD]

How is it not?

There is absolutely no reason to believe that in the absence of aspergers syndrome society would stagnate or even that aspergers has a net positive effect.

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

[MERIZoC]

How is it not?

1: There is absolutely no reason to believe that in the absence of aspergers syndrome society would stagnate or
2: even that aspergers has a net positive effect.

1: So? That doesn't mean there isn't a positive effect on society.
2: I don't see any negative effects from Aspergers on society, perhaps on the individuals, but most of them on this thread seem fine with it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

There is absolutely no reason to believe that in the absence of aspergers syndrome society would stagnate or even that aspergers has a net positive effect.

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

[KASSRD]

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

I know. I'm just saying Autism can be useful as well as harmful.

[Etha]

Autism should definitely cured. It is objectively worse to be autistic than to not be autistic. As for whether parents should have a say in it... Well, ideally the sort of person who wouldn't allow someone to cure their child's horrible, debilitating disease wouldn't be allowed to be a parent in the first place.

I very much disagree on that "Objectively Worse" thing. I have Autism (Aspergers) and I would not like to be "Cured" of said "Ailment".

[The Remnants of Kobol]

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

Your argument appears to be "It doesn't look broken, but I don't understand it, so let's fix it." Am I misunderstanding you?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

I know. I'm just saying Autism can be useful as well as harmful.

Yes, it can be. Or at least, lets say you find benefits in it. I just don't think we should exaggerate, however, about it's effects, harmful or beneficial.

[KASSRD]

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

Your argument appears to be "It doesn't look broken, but I don't understand it, so let's fix it." Am I misunderstanding you?

No, I think she is just saying society wouldn't change too much is autism disappeared. She's actually pretty good at seeing both sides.

[Des-Bal]

1: So? That doesn't mean there isn't a positive effect on society.
2: I don't see any negative effects from Aspergers on society, perhaps on the individuals, but most of them on this thread seem fine with it.

1. So the statement was wrong.
2. Doesn't matter.

[Susurruses]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

I've been following this debate closely and I've yet to see anyone approve of eugenics for autism.

You managed to completely miss the parts where people proposed screening foetuses for it and preventing any children with autism being born?
Or administering the hypothetical cure before/after birth?
Or forcibly curing everyone because clearly they can't decide for themselves?
Or placing it in the hands of parents/guardians or medical professionals?

All of those things fall under "eugenics" when it comes to effective extermination of a subset of the human populace.
Clearly not followed it closely enough.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

However, if it were to disappear, I doubt it would cause societal stagnation. I understand you're comfortable with being ASD but really... do take a look at the claim you just made. Please.

Your argument appears to be "It doesn't look broken, but I don't understand it, so let's fix it." Am I misunderstanding you?

Yup, you are misunderstanding me. Greatly. As my take has always been that although people with high functioning autism can and have lived relatively normal lives, those with low functioning autism do not necessarily fare the same.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Your argument appears to be "It doesn't look broken, but I don't understand it, so let's fix it." Am I misunderstanding you?

No, I think she is just saying society wouldn't change too much is autism disappeared. She's actually pretty good at seeing both sides.

Thanks for understanding my point.

[The Remnants of Kobol]

Your argument appears to be "It doesn't look broken, but I don't understand it, so let's fix it." Am I misunderstanding you?

No, I think she is just saying society wouldn't change too much is autism disappeared. She's actually pretty good at seeing both sides.

I just got here so I've only seen the last couple she posted. My apologies if there was any offense to her.

[KASSRD]

Okay, is there anyone who argues with the following:
1. Autistics should make the choice on whether or not to take the "cure".
2. If they can't, then the parents/caregivers should make it.
Is that agree with?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I've been following this debate closely and I've yet to see anyone approve of eugenics for autism.

You managed to completely miss the parts where people proposed screening foetuses for it and preventing any children with autism being born?
Or administering the hypothetical cure before/after birth?
Or forcibly curing everyone because clearly they can't decide for themselves?
Or placing it in the hands of parents/guardians or medical professionals?

All of those things fall under "eugenics" when it comes to effective extermination of a subset of the human populace.
Clearly not followed it closely enough.

Care to source this since the last time I saw this posited, what people were saying is that shy of genetic screening, a cure for autism seems unlikely because eugenics is wrong.

[Des-Bal]

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

Irrelevant.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No, I think she is just saying society wouldn't change too much is autism disappeared. She's actually pretty good at seeing both sides.

I just got here so I've only seen the last couple she posted. My apologies if there was any offense to her.

None taken.

[KASSRD]

Many of our important people are autistic. Autism may not be beneficial, but at the worst it is neutral. Go to many places with science, computer making, the like and you'll see lots of us there number wise.

Irrelevant.

Well I'm just pointing out that autism can be helpful and harmful. My autism is harmful. Others also have it helpful. Others have it harmful.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Irrelevant.

Well I'm just pointing out that autism can be helpful and harmful. My autism is harmful. Others also have it helpful. Others have it harmful.

In the point of personal opinion, how do you view your autism?

[KASSRD]

Well I'm just pointing out that autism can be helpful and harmful. My autism is harmful. Others also have it helpful. Others have it harmful.

In the point of personal opinion, how do you view your autism?

What do you mean?

[Gairvuu]

Why don't we just cure neurotypicals, allowing the true master race to take over?