should autism be cured?

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Not all types of autism is bad, Aspergers syndrome is a good example, however having two nephews who have the low grade autism myself, I have noticed that my cousin who is already having a hard time as it is, having a greater burden to bear having a limited income and all. Therefore I definitely believe that since the child due to low grade autism has a lack of response, in concordance with the Care of Children Act of 2004, Part 1, Section 5, Sub-section C of New Zealand law (I don't know the U.S. equivalent), the parents having the interest of the child at heart must make the decision, if a cure were available.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Not all types of autism is bad, Aspergers syndrome is a good example, however having two nephews who have the low grade autism myself, I have noticed that my cousin who is already having a hard time as it is, having a greater burden to bear having a limited income and all. Therefore I definitely believe that since the child due to low grade autism has a lack of response, in concordance with the Care of Children Act of 2004, Part 1, Section 5, Sub-section C of New Zealand law (I don't know the U.S. equivalent), the parents having the interest of the child at heart must make the decision, if a cure were available.

Yup, for low functioning autism, I think a hypothetical cure would be good.

[Ethel mermania]

I'm judging by your behavior compared to that of others in this thread with ASD. Yours seems cartoony and over the top while theirs seems sincere. Sorry, but I don't take everything someone says online at facevalue. If not believing your claim is a forum offense, go ahead and report me.

I am not lying. You think you know everything about me, based of other people's posts. You hate me for no reason!

didnt you say you had to go to school? when you come back, try and calm down and reread what she said.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Not all types of autism is bad, Aspergers syndrome is a good example, however having two nephews who have the low grade autism myself, I have noticed that my cousin who is already having a hard time as it is, having a greater burden to bear having a limited income and all. Therefore I definitely believe that since the child due to low grade autism has a lack of response, in concordance with the Care of Children Act of 2004, Part 1, Section 5, Sub-section C of New Zealand law (I don't know the U.S. equivalent), the parents having the interest of the child at heart must make the decision, if a cure were available.

Yup, for low functioning autism, I think a hypothetical cure would be good.

Indeed.

[Susurruses]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

I've been following this debate closely and I've yet to see anyone approve of eugenics for autism.

[San Isicio]

You know what I personally dislike the most about having autism in the Netherlands? the words 'autist' and 'autistisch' (austistic) are widely used as swear words that replaced our infamous swear word 'kanker' (cancer). Although autism doesn't directly kill you it still hurts a lot when people WIDELY use that word as a way to insult others.

[Betoni]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

Again, the you in you is not a constant. You change all the time. Everything you experience changes you on some minuscule level. I have no idea why the autistic people in this topic seem to have trouble understanding this. You are so much more than your diagnosis.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You know what I personally dislike the most about having autism in the Netherlands? the words 'autist' and 'autistisch' (austistic) are widely used as swear words that replaced our infamous swear word 'kanker' (cancer). Although autism doesn't directly kill you it still hurts a lot when people WIDELY use that word as a way to insult others.

That's unfortunate. Autism is no laughing matter nor should it be used as a slur or swear word.

[Looriro]

You know what I personally dislike the most about having autism in the Netherlands? the words 'autist' and 'autistisch' (austistic) are widely used as swear words that replaced our infamous swear word 'kanker' (cancer). Although autism doesn't directly kill you it still hurts a lot when people WIDELY use that word as a way to insult others.

People call me "aspie," and I hate it.

[KASSRD]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

[KASSRD]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

Again, the you in you is not a constant. You change all the time. Everything you experience changes you on some minuscule level. I have no idea why the autistic people in this topic seem to have trouble understanding this. You are so much more than your diagnosis.

I haven't changed too much since second grade. Obviously we get more mature, and that has some effects, but you still remain mostly the same.

[Ethel mermania]

Ardoki has a point.
If someone came up to you and said that the way your brain works is undesirable to the masses and they were going to "fix" it so you weren't so deviant, the result wouldn't really be 'you'.
'You' would, in effect, be dead.
Or severely altered. "Mutated" if you will. A freakish parody of whom you were.

Additionally, the sheer number of people in this thread being pro-eugenics and harbouring horribly outdated and misinformed views on a wide range of things (for the record, there actually are genetic & neurological differences in trans people compared to cis), predominately mental disorders and the fact they are highly variable and not at all comparable.
(Really. Equating OCD with ADHD with Autistic Spectrum Disorders?)

As Ardoki pointed out (which I avoided earlier on account of Godwin) eugenics was heavily supported by the Nazis to remove "undesirable" traits and create their idea of "perfect" humans.
(On that note, the U.S. scientific establishment heavily supported the Germans on such matters. At least until war broke out between the two and actual genocide had taken place and the U.S. suddenly had to disavow themselves of anything to do with that sort of thing.)
The problem with such is always that different people have different ideas as to what actually constitutes "undesirable" and what would be "ideal".

What if someone decided you were undesirable?
You have a few issues, sure, but it's nothing you can't deal with; maybe sometimes you need help with some things, but you're not hurting anyone.
Yet this person, or this group of people, has decided you are FLAWED and should be either killed off or prevented from ever being born; that anyone like you is broken or a freak or just unwanted for whatever reason.
Would you support being "cured" ?
Even if it meant the end of your very self, and the extinction of anyone that might ever be like you?
(Eugenics is a bad idea. Don't do it.)

Frankly, at least half of the issues for most disabilities is that society is either ill-equipped to let them live their lives or that it actively harms them.
(The solution there is proper education along with restructuring of systems [and architecture] to better enable everyone to take part in society/civilisation.)
[This is part of why eugenics is a bad idea; you could make things much better simply by being more inclusive & supportive of fellow people.]

Really though I don't expect that most of those spouting off ignorance and drawing lines in the sand are going to be convinced at all so... let's just hope none of them ever get given any power whatsoever when it comes to choices like that.
(Next thing you know we'll have nothing but pale-skinned blue-eyed blonde-haired athletic bodies populating the planet.)
[& then some disease will come along that specifically targets [or stems from] genetics related to those traits and the whole species is gone. Yay...]

As for the strange person talking of people as if they were financial burdens or boons...
You do realise "money" doesn't exist, right?
It's just tokens.
If you ever place profit before progress then you've messed up badly.

autism is not a civil rights issue. it is a disabiliy. if it were not a disbility i want the tens of tholusands of dollars i have spent on it back, i want the tax money spent on it back. in this country adults can not be forced to take a cure without their consent, so if you dont want to be cured its your right. but if you think your better off with it than without it, understand that is a symptom of the disorder, not an objective fact.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

Probably because for ADHD and OCD there are treatment options. What is available for Aspergers? Or for someone who's a low functioning autistic?

[San Isicio]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

There's sadly enough some kind of 'fashion' in illnesses for the masses to like to talk to, make shows about on TV and other things. I think ADHD and cancer had their time last decade while autism is in the 'rage' now. I personally find it a sick system but meh, it's pop culture.

[Ethel mermania]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

because only high functioning aspies define autism as a civil rights issue

[San Isicio]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

because only high functioning aspies define autism as a civil rights issue

11/10

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

because only high functioning aspies define autism as a civil rights issue

But high functioning Aspergers people don't necessarily speak for every ASD person.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

Well at the end of the day, common sensically, ADHD is bad. I mean it's a psychiatric disorder that tampers with the development of your brain thereby causing you to easily lose focus. OCD on the other hand is debatable depending on the actions taking place.

[Betoni]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

Probably because hardly anyone would say that curing ADHD or OCD would be like killing them. The whole spectrum thing seems to confuse a lot of people. The average person is used to medical terms being precise and accurate. The topic is controversial mainly because the confusion of normal usage of words such as "cure" and the thinking that autism is just like any illness, well defined and understood.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

Probably because hardly anyone would say that curing ADHD or OCD would be like killing them. The whole spectrum thing seems to confuse a lot of people. The average person is used to medical terms being precise and accurate. The topic is controversial mainly because the confusion of normal usage of words such as "cure" and the thinking that autism is just like any illness, well defined and understood.

How would you define autism as?

[Equuno]

"Cured"? I'm sorry, but when I heard that, I shuddered. Cured really is not a good word to use, here. It makes people sound like freaks with some zombie disorder that need to be fixed because there is something horribly wrong with them. I suspect that I'm somewhere on the spectrum, and if I am, I do not wish to be cured. Social interaction is awkward and confusing, but it's part of a person's character. If they can't function in society and will never do anything on their own, yes, they should have access to treatment. However, autism is not something you can look at and say "Oh... how odd... that person is different, there must be something wrong, let's fix them." It's not rabies. It's not the plague. Curing it would be like looking at yourself and deciding that you wanted to remove a part of your character. I know that I would not change anything about myself (ever) because it is who I am, and that is something I want to stay with me for the rest of my life. If you can't keep yourself, is there anything you can keep?

1. If you have not been diagnosed with a disorder don't present yourself as having it.
2. Yes. Cured. You cure disorders.

I did not mean to present myself as such, but if it came across as that way, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I merely stated that I suspect that I have it. Might I ask why you are so adamant that autism is so wrong? I am honestly a bit puzzled, as many people seem to function just fine with it. It seems to just be deeply integrated into their character. I do not mean to be rude by asking this question.

[San Isicio]

Also, is it me or are teachers extremely uneducated when it comes to autism? Of course, I understand that everyone's 'form' of their autistic spectrum is differend, but there are still some defining basic points that I think schools should educate to their teachers. Unless you're going to a special kind of school for autists that will limit the chance of an autistic person finding a job later in life significantly, most autists face a lot of trouble at schools because those are either uninformed about the subject or simply don't care.

I've personally had to threaten my school to get them to work on autism after several people with autism on my school were bullied away by both teachers and students because they were "incapable" of doing anything. I'm most likely pushing my demands further because my school has been hiding from inspections with their reputation in the Netherlands as a very anti-racist, pro-everyone school which is very untrue. Alfrink College... Ugh.

[Ethel mermania]

This is completely unrelated but I have it ask. Why are there never arguments like this for ADHD, OCD, or the like? I've seen pages of google searches devoted to discussions about autism good/bad, but never one ADHD good/bad. Is there a reason for this?

Probably because for ADHD and OCD there are treatment options. What is available for Aspergers? Or for someone who's a low functioning autistic?

meds can amerlorate the symptoms allowing them to function. temple grandin credits her nanny when she was young for bringing her out of her shell; and some pretty heavy meds now that help control her stims, ocd behaaviors and anxieties to allow her to function now.

if the family has a history of celiac disease, often a gluten free diet helps enormously

no one really knows what causes autism. if you look at dsm-iv, the diagnoses is a chinese menu, 2 from column a, 2 from colum b, and 1 from column c. the diagnoses is given to a set of symptoms, not really to anything.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Probably because for ADHD and OCD there are treatment options. What is available for Aspergers? Or for someone who's a low functioning autistic?

meds can amerlorate the symptoms allowing them to function. temple grandin credits her nanny when she was young for bringing her out of her shell; and some pretty heavy meds now that help control her stims, ocd behaaviors and anxieties to allow her to function now.

if the family has a history of celiac disease, often a gluten free diet helps enormously

no one really knows what causes autism. if you look at dsm-iv, the diagnoses is a chinese menu, 2 from column a, 2 from colum b, and 1 from column c. the diagnoses is given to a set of symptoms, not really to anything.

As a parent, what's your take on the claims people like Jenny McCarthy have made regarding vaccines causing autism in children?