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should autism be cured?

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Izandai
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Postby Izandai » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:27 pm

Equuno wrote:"Cured"? I'm sorry, but when I heard that, I shuddered. Cured really is not a good word to use, here. It makes people sound like freaks with some zombie disorder that need to be fixed because there is something horribly wrong with them. I suspect that I'm somewhere on the spectrum, and if I am, I do not wish to be cured. Social interaction is awkward and confusing, but it's part of a person's character. If they can't function in society and will never do anything on their own, yes, they should have access to treatment. However, autism is not something you can look at and say "Oh... how odd... that person is different, there must be something wrong, let's fix them." It's not rabies. It's not the plague. Curing it would be like looking at yourself and deciding that you wanted to remove a part of your character. I know that I would not change anything about myself (ever) because it is who I am, and that is something I want to stay with me for the rest of my life. If you can't keep yourself, is there anything you can keep?

People routinely decide that they don't like part of their character and take steps to change it. People who have trouble sleeping might take pills to help them go to bed. People often therapy to cure themselves of various mental disorders. People often read self-help books or take classes on how to mitigate various undesirable personality traits that make it difficult for them to socialize effectively, just like autism does. Autism, however, is more deeply rooted in the brain and requires more drastic methods.
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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:56 pm

Ardoki wrote:
Dejanic wrote:How is a cure for low functioning autism, which is a physical and mental disability, a threat to mild Aspergers?

They would force me to take the cure. Which would kill me.

You know what?


I hope they do.
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:00 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Ardoki wrote:They would force me to take the cure. Which would kill me.

You know what?


I hope they do.

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Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:01 pm

East Cloudsdale wrote:during my journeys throught the internent, i've come across some people who would deem autism as healthy and harmless. some of these people believe that research into autism should be banned and parents shouldn't be allowed to force their kids to take medication for autism. some of them even considered autism a lifestyle. so this leaves us with a few questions;/

1. in case of an eventual cure for autism, should parents have the right to decide not to cure their children? would that consist of child abuse?
2. is autism a lifestyle?

i believe that autism isn't a lifestyle, because you can't choose to be autistic (although some people get very close). i also think that in case of an eventual cure for autism, parents shouldn't be given a say on whether they want to cure their chilkdren or not.

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Izandai wrote:Autism should definitely cured. It is objectively worse to be autistic than to not be autistic. As for whether parents should have a say in it... Well, ideally the sort of person who wouldn't allow someone to cure their child's horrible, debilitating disease wouldn't be allowed to be a parent in the first place.
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Greater Mackonia
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Postby Greater Mackonia » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:01 pm

It is such a broad spectrum that to make one rule for all would be folly, many high functioning Autistics can thrive with their disorder, indeed many see it as a blessing, while of course low functioning autistics are doomed to a life of an invalid with their affliction.
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Postby Llamalandia » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:19 pm

KASSRD wrote:
Leetmerica wrote:
It's the same with everything. If we could cure the common cold, wouldn't we?

Except that Autism isn't like the common cold in that it can be beneficial, neutral, or negative. Which is why arguments like this get so much more attention and arguing, while threads on curing cancer don't.
As for the other conversation. I think that if a cure I ever made, then the Autistic should make the choice. In the scenario they can't, then it is almost certainly a huge setback in their life and they should take a cure.
War I am afraid of is autism being wiped out as parents cure us error were old enough to make our own choice.


True, but the negative vastly out weighs the neutral/beneficial.

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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:29 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Except that Autism isn't like the common cold in that it can be beneficial, neutral, or negative. Which is why arguments like this get so much more attention and arguing, while threads on curing cancer don't.
As for the other conversation. I think that if a cure I ever made, then the Autistic should make the choice. In the scenario they can't, then it is almost certainly a huge setback in their life and they should take a cure.
War I am afraid of is autism being wiped out as parents cure us error were old enough to make our own choice.


True, but the negative vastly out weighs the neutral/beneficial.

It depends on the person and for high-functioning autistics you can't make blanket statements.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:31 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Except that Autism isn't like the common cold in that it can be beneficial, neutral, or negative. Which is why arguments like this get so much more attention and arguing, while threads on curing cancer don't.
As for the other conversation. I think that if a cure I ever made, then the Autistic should make the choice. In the scenario they can't, then it is almost certainly a huge setback in their life and they should take a cure.
War I am afraid of is autism being wiped out as parents cure us error were old enough to make our own choice.


True, but the negative vastly out weighs the neutral/beneficial.


I'm going to ask you to remember that there's low functioning autism and high functioning autism and many high functioning autistic people don't see a lot of negatives in their condition are perfectly capable of living relatively normal lives without much difficulty.
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Postby Nazi Flower Power » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:34 pm

East Cloudsdale wrote:during my journeys throught the internent, i've come across some people who would deem autism as healthy and harmless. some of these people believe that research into autism should be banned and parents shouldn't be allowed to force their kids to take medication for autism. some of them even considered autism a lifestyle. so this leaves us with a few questions;/

1. in case of an eventual cure for autism, should parents have the right to decide not to cure their children? would that consist of child abuse?
2. is autism a lifestyle?

i believe that autism isn't a lifestyle, because you can't choose to be autistic (although some people get very close). i also think that in case of an eventual cure for autism, parents shouldn't be given a say on whether they want to cure their chilkdren or not.


It depends on the specific symptoms and their severity. Mild autism does not need to be treated. More severe cases do. People who say autism is not a real disorder probably have only had experience with the milder forms and don't realize how severe the symptoms can be in the worst cases.

Parents should have a say in deciding if their child needs treatment or not.
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Postby Ardoki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:45 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Ardoki wrote:They would force me to take the cure. Which would kill me.

You know what?


I hope they do.

That is horrible. Why do you want me dead?

EDIT: Never mind, I see that this problem has been resolved.
Last edited by Ardoki on Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KASSRD
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Postby KASSRD » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:47 pm

I think most of us can agree with this:
1. If a "cure" is made, then it should be a choice whether to take it or not by the autistic.
2. If the Autistic cant make decisions, then his or her caretaker/parent should.

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KASSRD
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Postby KASSRD » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:48 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Except that Autism isn't like the common cold in that it can be beneficial, neutral, or negative. Which is why arguments like this get so much more attention and arguing, while threads on curing cancer don't.
As for the other conversation. I think that if a cure I ever made, then the Autistic should make the choice. In the scenario they can't, then it is almost certainly a huge setback in their life and they should take a cure.
War I am afraid of is autism being wiped out as parents cure us error were old enough to make our own choice.


True, but the negative vastly out weighs the neutral/beneficial.

Not always. For me it helps me far more than holds me back, and I've gotten around those. By this point, taking a vaccine for Autism would be like killing me.

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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:49 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Batorys wrote:You know what?


I hope they do.

That is horrible. Why do you want me dead?

EDIT: Never mind, I see that this problem has been resolved.

Because I think it would be funny for you to be cured and thus feel like an idiot for thinking that you were going to die.

Also because you seem to believe that other people should live in suffering so that you can feel like a special snowflake. So I'm hoping that if they cured you, you'd maybe acquire a healthy dose of guilt.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:50 pm

KASSRD wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
True, but the negative vastly out weighs the neutral/beneficial.

Not always. For me it helps me far more than holds me back, and I've gotten around those. By this point, taking a vaccine for Autism would be like killing me.


Why would a hypothetical cure kill you? I'm curious. This is not the first time I've seen you post this.
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Postby Ardoki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:52 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Ardoki wrote:That is horrible. Why do you want me dead?

EDIT: Never mind, I see that this problem has been resolved.

Because I think it would be funny for you to be cured and thus feel like an idiot for thinking that you were going to die.

Also because you seem to believe that other people should live in suffering so that you can feel like a special snowflake. So I'm hoping that if they cured you, you'd maybe acquire a healthy dose of guilt.

Curing me would be just like killing me. I would literally be a different person, I would think differently, view the world differently, in fact, it would be like I was another person.
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Postby KASSRD » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:52 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Not always. For me it helps me far more than holds me back, and I've gotten around those. By this point, taking a vaccine for Autism would be like killing me.


Why would a hypothetical cure kill you? I'm curious. This is not the first time I've seen you post this.

Because autism is a part of me. Giving me a "cure" wouldn't just keep me the same, Exocet now I have social skills and talk more. Every part of me, my personality, perception of the world, the way I think, even my memories would change completely. And if we change completely differently, then isn't that like dying?

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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:52 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Not always. For me it helps me far more than holds me back, and I've gotten around those. By this point, taking a vaccine for Autism would be like killing me.


Why would a hypothetical cure kill you? I'm curious. This is not the first time I've seen you post this.

Metaphorically kills. It's completely changing who you are. Imagine if you took something that made you autistic. You would be a whole different person.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:53 pm

Dragonia Re Xzua wrote:This was stated a few times in this topic, but I'll add to it: Autism isn't as easy to spot as one might think. Many people with autism do not generally show the signs of such (at least to someone unfamiliar to the person), the high functioning autistic individuals. But there are many who are openly autistic, have problems with everyday life where they need help with many things in life, the low functioning autistic individuals. I have high functioning autism, although I have gotten over many of my problems. As for the scientists who believe they are experts on autism, they cannot truly comprehend the mind of an autistic individual considering that they do not have autism themselves. The real experts on autism are those with autism because they have been through it.


thats really not correct. i have had a heart attack, i do know lots about what heart attacks feel like and do to a person. however i am not the best person to go to to treat a heart attack. someone who has studied it and researched it for years and know what an mri and cat scan of a good heart and a heart under stress, and is familiar with how to treat a heart attack, like a cardiologist is where you want to go. same with autism, the guy or gal who studies brain chemestry and mri's and cat scans knows more about the mechanics of autism than you do. though i would agee you problably know more about how it feels than they do.

sorry to say, i am more interested in what a fellow who diagnosed my son has to say about the mechanics of autism than you.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:55 pm

KASSRD wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Why would a hypothetical cure kill you? I'm curious. This is not the first time I've seen you post this.

Because autism is a part of me. Giving me a "cure" wouldn't just keep me the same, Exocet now I have social skills and talk more. Every part of me, my personality, perception of the world, the way I think, even my memories would change completely. And if we change completely differently, then isn't that like dying?


I wouldn't equate the change you would undergo with death, but I understand the misgivings. It would change that to which you're already accustomed to and don't seem to have an objection to.
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Postby KASSRD » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:56 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Dragonia Re Xzua wrote:This was stated a few times in this topic, but I'll add to it: Autism isn't as easy to spot as one might think. Many people with autism do not generally show the signs of such (at least to someone unfamiliar to the person), the high functioning autistic individuals. But there are many who are openly autistic, have problems with everyday life where they need help with many things in life, the low functioning autistic individuals. I have high functioning autism, although I have gotten over many of my problems. As for the scientists who believe they are experts on autism, they cannot truly comprehend the mind of an autistic individual considering that they do not have autism themselves. The real experts on autism are those with autism because they have been through it.


thats really not correct. i have had a heart attack, i do know lots about what heart attacks feel like and do to a person. however i am not the best person to go to to treat a heart attack. someone who has studied it and researched it for years and know what an mri and cat scan of a good heart and a heart under stress, and is familiar with how to treat a heart attack, like a cardiologist is where you want to go. same with autism, the guy or gal who studies brain chemestry and mri's and cat scans knows more about the mechanics of autism than you do. though i would agee you problably know more about how it feels than they do.

sorry to say, i am more interested in what a fellow who diagnosed my son has to say about the mechanics of autism than you.

Maybe he would know more science wise, but he can't tell you what it's like to actually be autistic. You/he can't feel what it's like to be autistic. Now, he might know more about how it works. But as far as how autism itself is like having, me and other autistics would know better.

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Postby San Isicio » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:56 pm

As a person with Asperger Autism, I'd prefer not to live without autism for this one simple fact: I've been living this all my life and I enjoy my life like this. It has entwined with my personality, my daily routine etc. and if that would be 'cured' my life would definately collapse.

Practically agreeing with good mister/misses KASSRD.
Last edited by San Isicio on Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby KASSRD » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:57 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
KASSRD wrote:Because autism is a part of me. Giving me a "cure" wouldn't just keep me the same, Exocet now I have social skills and talk more. Every part of me, my personality, perception of the world, the way I think, even my memories would change completely. And if we change completely differently, then isn't that like dying?


I wouldn't equate the change you would undergo with death, but I understand the misgivings. It would change that to which you're already accustomed to and don't seem to have an objection to.

I would. Not physical death, but the part of m that was me would die. Nothing about me would be the same.

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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:58 pm

KASSRD wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
thats really not correct. i have had a heart attack, i do know lots about what heart attacks feel like and do to a person. however i am not the best person to go to to treat a heart attack. someone who has studied it and researched it for years and know what an mri and cat scan of a good heart and a heart under stress, and is familiar with how to treat a heart attack, like a cardiologist is where you want to go. same with autism, the guy or gal who studies brain chemestry and mri's and cat scans knows more about the mechanics of autism than you do. though i would agee you problably know more about how it feels than they do.

sorry to say, i am more interested in what a fellow who diagnosed my son has to say about the mechanics of autism than you.

Maybe he would know more science wise, but he can't tell you what it's like to actually be autistic. You/he can't feel what it's like to be autistic. Now, he might know more about how it works. But as far as how autism itself is like having, me and other autistics would know better.


I don't think that as a parent, he needs to know what being autistic feels like but rather what treatments are best to help his son. That's something an expert in autism, a doctor, is for.

It is rather silly to go on this tangent.
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Postby San Isicio » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:59 pm

KASSRD wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I wouldn't equate the change you would undergo with death, but I understand the misgivings. It would change that to which you're already accustomed to and don't seem to have an objection to.

I would. Not physical death, but the part of m that was me would die. Nothing about me would be the same.


Totally agreed. People shouln't make the mistake that it isn't an illness like cancer. It's literally part of us.

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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:59 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Because I think it would be funny for you to be cured and thus feel like an idiot for thinking that you were going to die.

Also because you seem to believe that other people should live in suffering so that you can feel like a special snowflake. So I'm hoping that if they cured you, you'd maybe acquire a healthy dose of guilt.

Curing me would be just like killing me. I would literally be a different person, I would think differently, view the world differently, in fact, it would be like I was another person.

This is why I think it would be hilarious to cure you.

Because you'd be basically the same person, but you would realize how idiotic all this whining about how everyone wanted to kill you sounded.
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